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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Bilbo with the ring
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Gusev8
Bree


Sep 26 2012, 7:53am

Post #1 of 34 (1518 views)
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Bilbo with the ring Can't Post

When Bilbo is wearing the ring, how should it be filmed in your opinion, that you see him ? don't see him ? see things from his point of view ? Hopefully it also will be scarier then it has been shown in the trailer


The Preciousss
Bree

Sep 26 2012, 8:48am

Post #2 of 34 (620 views)
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I would like [In reply to] Can't Post

to see it filmed like a light version of how it was done in LOTR, because Sauron is not that powerful during that time, so the tearing effect/distortion should be a lot less.


Welsh hero
Gondor


Sep 26 2012, 9:35am

Post #3 of 34 (585 views)
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Like in the beginning of FF [In reply to] Can't Post

We see it from other's point of view, not bilbo

-Irfon

Twitter: @IrfonPennant
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Valandil ed Imladris
Lorien


Sep 26 2012, 10:07am

Post #4 of 34 (520 views)
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We will see the wraith world, but lighter [In reply to] Can't Post

because Saurons power is not as great as in LOTR


FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
Rohan


Sep 26 2012, 10:53am

Post #5 of 34 (486 views)
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Good question. [In reply to] Can't Post

In my opinion I think they will have a mixture from his point of view with all that blurry smoky/misty effect, as well as some bits where he puts the ring on and (from another person's point of view) you cannot see him.

......"Since the first time I met you,
..I couldn't seem to forget you.
.......And lately I seem to find,
..That you're always on my mind.
.......Whenever I see you smile,
..It makes my life so very worthwhile.
......And ever since the very start,
..You have always been there in my heart.
..Then I heard that you felt the same way,
........................................................................And those words were so easy to say."


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 26 2012, 10:57am

Post #6 of 34 (519 views)
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Just don't show it at all [In reply to] Can't Post

That removes any "problems". The audience know the Ring turns it's wearer invisible. If the filming is clever enough, the audience can gage where Bilbo is, and if he's moving.

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Fardragon
Rohan

Sep 26 2012, 11:02am

Post #7 of 34 (500 views)
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That can become a cliche. [In reply to] Can't Post

Footsteps in dust, things being knocked, etc.

Since Bilbo is a Hobbit, he shouldn't be audible, or bump into things.

Of course the technology exists to actually film the shots with Martin Freeman, then digitally remove him. This would enable faint shadows to be cast in bright light.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 26 2012, 11:06am

Post #8 of 34 (453 views)
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Yup, that's what I was thinking :-) / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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Lauryn
Bree

Sep 26 2012, 11:40am

Post #9 of 34 (450 views)
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Yeah [In reply to] Can't Post

If I recall correctly Bilbo doesn't even realize he is invisible until he hears Gollum ramble about it, also... it's Bilbo, he would probably freak out a bit if he was in some sort of shadow-world (even if it's just mild).


Valandil ed Imladris
Lorien


Sep 26 2012, 12:16pm

Post #10 of 34 (448 views)
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for continuity reasons [In reply to] Can't Post

I want the shadow world back.
Also: it looked nice and made sure: It's not that cool to use the ring. Even Bilbo should realize that in the Hobbit!


stoutfiles
Rohan

Sep 26 2012, 1:03pm

Post #11 of 34 (409 views)
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It should stay the same [In reply to] Can't Post

If only for continuity. Things to note:

-The casual audience will be confused if it's not the same. They would have to explain why the shadow world isn't as dark, and it's unlikely there would be a good place to do so. It'd be like showing Jedi as good fighters with limited use of the Force in one trilogy, and then showing them as video game characters with no limts in the next trilogy (oh wait, that happened and it was awful). Once you've established a precedent, it should stay that way. It's a shame that LOTR is affecting the Hobbit, but they're the same universe and need to connect with each other.

-Bilbo is in a very dark cave, so he may not immediately notice the swirling effects of the shadow world. If anything, those effects would help him realize he is invisible after he stops running.


burgahobbit
Rohan


Sep 26 2012, 1:43pm

Post #12 of 34 (394 views)
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When Gollum is looking for him he's invisible like Bilbo in FOTR [In reply to] Can't Post

Then cut back to Bilbo where he looks normal but he realizes that he's invisible because of Gollum's reaction.


sycorax82
Rohan

Sep 26 2012, 2:32pm

Post #13 of 34 (359 views)
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We see him using the Ring very lightly in FOTR [In reply to] Can't Post

The invisible Ring 'world' can't be as scary here, otherwise Bilbo wouldn't even think about using it as a prank in FOTR.


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 26 2012, 2:37pm

Post #14 of 34 (361 views)
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Bilbo's just harder than Frodo is [In reply to] Can't Post

Bilbo doesn't put up with no nonsense!

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Gold Grizzly
The Shire


Sep 26 2012, 3:03pm

Post #15 of 34 (324 views)
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I want to be able to see him [In reply to] Can't Post

The key scene where Bilbo pities Gollum and opts not to kill him won't work if we can't see him. The audience should be able to watch the decision process playing out on Bilbo's face.


stoutfiles
Rohan

Sep 26 2012, 3:12pm

Post #16 of 34 (333 views)
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It's only scary in LOTR [In reply to] Can't Post

Because the things that are looking for him can easily see him when he puts it on. If nothing is looking for him, then a wavy world isn't all that scary.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Sep 26 2012, 3:57pm

Post #17 of 34 (299 views)
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either show it from... [In reply to] Can't Post

other peoples perspectives, where he is simply not there, or in the last Harry Potter film they did it great with Herminie, where the camera panned around and you seen her but when you seen from the snatchers view she wasn't there. then back around to her perspective and she is in the shot again, it worked very well there. Besides Bilbo has no idea he is invisible, He is shocked that gollum looked right at him and didn't see him. So to play with the swirling ring world defeats him not knowing he was invisible, since that world almost seemed painful to Frodo. There are ways to shoot it without having the ring take the forefront of the scenes like it would with the swirling wind filled wraith world


R11
Lorien

Sep 26 2012, 5:17pm

Post #18 of 34 (266 views)
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Don't agree with this [In reply to] Can't Post

To begin with, in the story The Hobbit comes first so it makes no difference how the ring is shown affecting Frodo in LOTR. Futzing with the story in an attempt to remedy the problem that the LOTR movies were adapted first simply makes things worse. It's a basic tenet of the saga that the experience and effects on the wearer change completely and become drastically different as Sauron's power grows moving into LOTR. In The Hobbit wearing the ring is essentially benign and transparent (sorry Angelic) in short term use. Adapting The Hobbit now gives PJ the chance to right the problem that LOTR was done first. If he avoids making changes to placate those who don't completely know the whole story then everything will be righted. If he makes a bunch of further alterations it simply compounds the problems IMO. Personally I really hope he resists temptations to delve into any background about the greater significance of the ring itself beyond it's surprising cloaking capabilities to Bilbo. Doing any of that just takes away from the later part of the saga. The events of Dol Guldur etc can be explored without specifically getting into the ring. There's no need at all to even connect the two during The Hobbit.


ron


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Sep 26 2012, 5:33pm

Post #19 of 34 (246 views)
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Totally agree [In reply to] Can't Post

They can tell the story without delving to the rings past or even mentioning the ring. I honestly think that is the correct path to follow, since if too much information about the ring is given it takes everything happening in the Hobbit out of context making it seem small in comparison to the "bigger Picture" which ends with the war of the ring. There really is no need to get that in depth at all about the ring IMO


There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Sep 26 2012, 6:05pm

Post #20 of 34 (258 views)
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I thought the whole point of The Hobbit [In reply to] Can't Post

was that Bilbo was only but a small creature in a wider world. Wink

However I agree with you completely, that there is no reason to retcon a stylistic choice of Jackson's because it doesn't even make sense here to do it that way!

and as someone pointed out, Jackson completely avoid's Bilbo's "Wraithworld" in FOTR by never cutting to his perspective.

This was a smart move since we don't have any precedent for Bilbo's POV with the ring on it'll allow PJ more freedom in approaching this "issue" in The Hobbit.

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Sep 26 2012, 6:14pm

Post #21 of 34 (231 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
was that Bilbo was only but a small creature in a wider world.

True, but when I read the Hobbit that Tolkien wrote Bilbo is small yes but still the most important thing in the story was Bilbo Baggins and his adventure Wink In PJ's version I get the feeling Bilbo is secondary to the wider world and on equal footing with Thorin and Gandalf which he clearly should take precedence over in any version of the Hobbit



There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Sep 26 2012, 6:21pm

Post #22 of 34 (217 views)
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thank goodness indeed! [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the telling of The Hobbit works so well because of the storytime, fairytale-vibe. Saying to your audience, "Well Gandalf had other errands that do not come into this tale" might not come off as endearing in a film. I personally would feel a bit cheated, but for some reason in a book, it leaves more to my imagination.

I'm glad I'll two variations on a story I love so very much. Heart

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas


grinman
Rivendell


Sep 26 2012, 6:27pm

Post #23 of 34 (209 views)
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Agreed, but.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Ideally, yes. I would prefer for PJ to not even reference the wraith world in The Hobbit while bilbo wears the ring. There should be nothing exceptional about his experience except that he's invisible. If it was obviously strange, offputting, uncomfortable, or whatever, Bilbo wouldn't wear it... and would be suspicious of it.

Now, being that this IS a prequel of sorts, you have to stay within the world already established.. to a point. I think that a simple line from Gandalf or Galadriel or Elrond (preferably Gandalf... maybe to the White Council) would suffice to explain the difference in experience. Something along the lines of "Now that we know that the Necromancer is indeed The Dark Lord, Sauron and that he has returned, he will bend all of his strength to finding "the weapon" that was lost ages ago.... his servants will multiply and his devices will awaken." This could provide some explanation why the ring changes over the years... maybe the fact that Sauron knows it exists and is ACTIVELY searching for it, changes it's properties.


Ring-Bearer
Rivendell


Sep 26 2012, 8:18pm

Post #24 of 34 (189 views)
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Something I've always pondered [In reply to] Can't Post

 
The night when Bilbo puts the Ring on at his birthday party, does he see what Frodo does when he puts it on? Because he didn't seem to be traumatized after he took it off in Bag End. If not, why would they put it in The Hobbit? Just wondering.


'I will take it! I will take the Ring to Mordor- though, I do not know the way...'


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Sep 26 2012, 8:56pm

Post #25 of 34 (183 views)
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I have always thought [In reply to] Can't Post

that it has to do with the proximity of the Ring-wraiths as minions of Sauron. Also as the One Ring gets closer to Sauron himself it becomes more powerful and compelling.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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