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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
I am happily convinced Gandalf won't be captured with the dwarves, but now I worry if he will be with the company at all when the attack happens
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Sep 26 2012, 1:57am

Post #1 of 77 (2000 views)
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I am happily convinced Gandalf won't be captured with the dwarves, but now I worry if he will be with the company at all when the attack happens Can't Post

I am not looking for trouble, but I really love that whole scene, and while the concern of Gandalf being erroneously captured with the dwarves and Bilbo was a false alarm, it occurs to me and not for the first time, that I have yet to see any evidence of Gandalf being with the company on the mountain pass, during the Stone Giant attack, or in the cave prior to the ambush. What gives?

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Ffnir
Rohan


Sep 26 2012, 2:27am

Post #2 of 77 (1105 views)
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If he is not with the dwarves [In reply to] Can't Post

and he just happens to show up and kill the great goblin right when the dwarves were about to be executed, he could nearly beat the eagles in the deus ex machina middle earth championship


(This post was edited by Ffnir on Sep 26 2012, 2:28am)


dave_lf
Gondor

Sep 26 2012, 4:12am

Post #3 of 77 (1031 views)
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Thorin suspects him of eating their food [In reply to] Can't Post

and sends him home in tears.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 26 2012, 4:32am

Post #4 of 77 (990 views)
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So the rumors say [In reply to] Can't Post

Apparently, this is also precipitated by Gandalf's offer to help carry Orcrist for Thorin. According to Quint's forthcoming set report, due next week, Gandalf states (in slo-motion, a skill he learned in acting class):

"I could carry it for a while" followed by another statement in slo-motion; "shaaare the looooad."

Thorin flies into a rage, and then...what you said.

It provides a nice parallel to a scene from LOTR, though I can't remember which, as there are parts of it that have been surgically removed from my memory.


Milknut
Rohan


Sep 26 2012, 5:45am

Post #5 of 77 (935 views)
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Worry not. [In reply to] Can't Post

I come bearing proof.


I believe this scene from trailer 1 (at about 1:38) is the scene in the cave before they go to sleep and get taken by the goblins.

The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie___


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 26 2012, 5:55am

Post #6 of 77 (930 views)
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Er, those photos [In reply to] Can't Post

Shows Gandalf and company resting in a forested area, which looks nothing like the Misty Mountain pass we have seen from the trailer...


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 26 2012, 7:06am

Post #7 of 77 (871 views)
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'Tis not the cave [In reply to] Can't Post

The cave they stay in is, well, much more cave like. Smile

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DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 26 2012, 7:07am

Post #8 of 77 (881 views)
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Some element of change [In reply to] Can't Post

It is inevitable that this scene, from their arrival in the cave right until they all escape, will be changed. Gandalf might not be captured with the Dwarves, but I doubt this part of the film will end up exactly like the book.

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titanium_hobbit
Rohan


Sep 26 2012, 7:51am

Post #9 of 77 (858 views)
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more proof [In reply to] Can't Post

I suspect this is when Bilbo wakes first and just manages a squeak with the horrible wall crack nightmare (precursor to the recent Doctor Who theme?)
trailer 2: 2:13

Also, what does Bifur have in his hand- it's some sort of bird toy? if you scrub slowly through you can see it's wings flap.




Hobbit firster, Book firster.


Have you explored all of TORN's forums?


Milknut
Rohan


Sep 26 2012, 7:52am

Post #10 of 77 (826 views)
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Why? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm mystified as to why this is even a concern. What possible reason is there to change the events? It works in the book so what reason is there to change it?

The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie___


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 26 2012, 7:53am

Post #11 of 77 (815 views)
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It's an eagle toy, from Rivendell :-) / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 26 2012, 7:54am

Post #12 of 77 (815 views)
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Because they're making the films, and not us ;-) [In reply to] Can't Post

We already know that Bilbo ends up fighting a Goblin. That's a change right there!

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Milknut
Rohan


Sep 26 2012, 7:55am

Post #13 of 77 (815 views)
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Maybe that was all part of an elaborate dream sequence! [In reply to] Can't Post

Shocked

The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie___


titanium_hobbit
Rohan


Sep 26 2012, 8:08am

Post #14 of 77 (813 views)
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lighting in the fight scene [In reply to] Can't Post

There appears to be both blue moonlight and yellow lamp light in the scene.

This niggles at me a little because I know that Bilbo's sword isn't taken from him by the Goblins because it's hidden in his breeches.


Hobbit firster, Book firster.


Have you explored all of TORN's forums?


Milknut
Rohan


Sep 26 2012, 8:10am

Post #15 of 77 (819 views)
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What are you saying? [In reply to] Can't Post

Do you think the fight is taking place in the cave, not Goblin-Town?

The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie___


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 26 2012, 8:12am

Post #16 of 77 (803 views)
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Might not be moonlight? / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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titanium_hobbit
Rohan


Sep 26 2012, 10:10am

Post #17 of 77 (772 views)
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yes- that it's Bilbo's heroics before the abduction [In reply to] Can't Post

seems very non-canon and I think, unlikely.

I agree Daniel, might not be moonlight.


Hobbit firster, Book firster.


Have you explored all of TORN's forums?


Fardragon
Rohan

Sep 26 2012, 10:21am

Post #18 of 77 (776 views)
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I think [In reply to] Can't Post

Bilbo will be a little less incompetent and whiny than he is early in the book. Otherwise a portion of the audience might find too irritating to identify with.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Milknut
Rohan


Sep 26 2012, 10:34am

Post #19 of 77 (758 views)
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Impossible [In reply to] Can't Post

Martin Freeman, remember? Tongue

The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie___


dave_lf
Gondor

Sep 26 2012, 12:18pm

Post #20 of 77 (766 views)
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What heroics? [In reply to] Can't Post

What heroics? He just stands there trying not to get stabbed. Could be some dwarf takes out the goblin a moment later just before Bilbo bites it.

There is actually good reason to suppose the spider will be retained as his first kill. The alternate trailer ending made a big deal out of the fact that Bilbo's sword didn't have a name because it hadn't seen battle, which by Chekov's law means the writers will make a big deal out of him giving it one once it finally does. I believe we've already had a glimpse of that scene, occurring right where it should.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Sep 26 2012, 8:58pm

Post #21 of 77 (598 views)
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I was thinking about this shot too, Milknut, but I keep wondering if this is in the cave shot [In reply to] Can't Post

or elsewhere? There is a tree in there for one thing. A tree could grow in a cave, but I cannot tell if this pic is entirely enclosed, or just near a rocky overhang of some sort. I hope you are right. I think this is a great shot. But in one of the clips where Bifur is shown playing with a Dwarvern toy, and they are clearly in a cave, there is no sign of this tree, nor of Gandalf, and I've not seen him in any of the shots on the path up into the mountains.

In Reply To
I come bearing proof.


I believe this scene from trailer 1 (at about 1:38) is the scene in the cave before they go to sleep and get taken by the goblins.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Sep 26 2012, 9:15pm

Post #22 of 77 (605 views)
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This is the picture I was talking about. [In reply to] Can't Post

And I see no sign of tree or of Thaumaturge (Wizard) in it, which concerns me.

In Reply To
I suspect this is when Bilbo wakes first and just manages a squeak with the horrible wall crack nightmare (precursor to the recent Doctor Who theme?)
trailer 2: 2:13

Also, what does Bifur have in his hand- it's some sort of bird toy? if you scrub slowly through you can see it's wings flap.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Carne
Tol Eressea

Sep 26 2012, 9:27pm

Post #23 of 77 (573 views)
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The tree is at the front of the cave though, Bilbo could be in the back [In reply to] Can't Post

And only Bifur and Balin can be seen, but that doesn't mean the others aren't there.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Sep 26 2012, 9:34pm

Post #24 of 77 (591 views)
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That is exactly why it is a concern. Because it is a great scene which doesn't need [In reply to] Can't Post

any alteration. Indeed, alteration could ruin a great scene. Yet just because a scene doesn't need to be tinkered with does not mean it is warded against the possibility of busy hands messing with it just the same.

Three things occur to my mind. One is how grudging Jackson is towards allowing Gandalf's magic to shine through, and the others are the business of The Wizards search of Dol Guldur, along with Jackson's comment that "in the book, Gandalf keeps dissapearing" which is actually only half true. Gandalf only parts ways with the company twice. Once before the Trollshaws and again on the edge of Mirkwood. For him to leave them more than once in the first film, if the first film never makes it to Mirkwood, would be a departure.

If the troll scene only allows enough time for a visit with Radagast, then it is not impossible that Jackson might have Gandalf leave the company prior to reaching The Misty Mountains, only returning, perhaps after some dramatic encounter in Dol Guldur, to save the company from The Goblins at the last minute.


In Reply To
I'm mystified as to why this is even a concern. What possible reason is there to change the events? It works in the book so what reason is there to change it?


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Sep 26 2012, 10:08pm

Post #25 of 77 (605 views)
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Although we can only see four of the party in that shot in total. [In reply to] Can't Post

I assume the others are out of shot.

LR

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