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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
the new goblin design
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triptrap
Lorien

Sep 23 2012, 12:48pm

Post #1 of 54 (2189 views)
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the new goblin design Can't Post

What do you think about it?

From what we've seen i'm not really satisfied. I think the goblins are far too small(smaller than even dwarves) http://heirsofdurin.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/t99.jpg
but in the book they are descirbed as gian goblinlike creatures

for my kind of taste they also lack armour and weapons, the Lotr orcs were much better designed and a lot more frightening IMO

But is there a chance that we'll also see a lot of other, bigger, nastier orcs like these?
http://heirsofdurin.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/untitled-156-copy.jpg


Carne
Tol Eressea

Sep 23 2012, 1:07pm

Post #2 of 54 (934 views)
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I'm very pleased with what I've seen [In reply to] Can't Post

I think one of the major reasons for the size of them is because they needed performers that were around the same height of the actors portraying dwarves.

I wonder how they'll do the BO5A when it comes to scale. The goblins will obviously look tiny next to the humans and elves, so must be hard to shoot Crazy


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Sep 23 2012, 1:28pm

Post #3 of 54 (927 views)
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Hmmm well in the book [In reply to] Can't Post

The specific goblins who first appear in the cave are described as "big goblins" but, by implication, this also means there are smaller goblins too. As for what's big for a goblin or small for a goblin we don't really have any clear measures.

The only real clues are that six goblins should be able to carry/ manhandle a dwarf and Bilbo should be able to crawl throught the legs of a goblin captain.

LR


DeadRabbits
Lorien


Sep 23 2012, 1:36pm

Post #4 of 54 (929 views)
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The Moria goblins... [In reply to] Can't Post

... in LoTR were also quite small, and since the goblins from Goblintown must be their close relatives it makes sense for them to also be small in size (except for the Great Goblin and a few others perhaps).

The orcs from Dol Guldur will certainly be larger in statue and I suspect we will see orc/goblin armies from the Misty Mountains (Goblintown, Gundabad, Moria) join forces with their larger cousins from Dol Guldur at the BotFA.

Now now Bill, you swore this was a battle between warriors, not a bunch of miss nancies, so warriors is what I brought


Elutherian
Rohan


Sep 23 2012, 2:04pm

Post #5 of 54 (768 views)
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I like it... [In reply to] Can't Post

...But it seems the Goblins of Goblin-Town will be smaller than the one pictured here. Probably a distinction between Misty Mountain goblins and Gundabad Goblins... much like Uruk-Hai and Mordor Orcs in LOTR.

The Grey Pilgrim, they once called me. Three hundred lives of men I walked this earth, and now I have no time...


burgahobbit
Rohan


Sep 23 2012, 2:05pm

Post #6 of 54 (924 views)
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The one Bilbo is fighting is (spoilers) [In reply to] Can't Post

Grinnah, who seems to be a goblin child. The rest of the goblins should be much larger.


Carne
Tol Eressea

Sep 23 2012, 2:15pm

Post #7 of 54 (819 views)
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I doubt he's a child [In reply to] Can't Post

More likely just a short goblin.


Phibbus
Rohan


Sep 23 2012, 3:00pm

Post #8 of 54 (739 views)
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What's big? (by the other book) [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
As for what's big for a goblin or small for a goblin we don't really have any clear measures.

In LotR (the book) the orc (as opposed to troll) that nearly skewers Frodo in the Chamber of Mazarbul is described as "a huge orc-chieftain, almost man-high," implying that the larger ones are still not all that tall.

Man is but an ass if he go about to expound this dream.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 23 2012, 3:39pm

Post #9 of 54 (680 views)
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I like them a lot [In reply to] Can't Post

I think they also gel more with Tolkien's desription of orcs having very long arms, and being almost simian in body type. And if "almost man-high" was considered massive, most goblins should be shorter.

There is also something Nosferatu about them, which I also find appropriate.

In all, I like these guys better than most orcs is I saw in LOTR. Apart from the "inspector" in ROTK, who is my favorite.


(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Sep 23 2012, 3:41pm)


Phibbus
Rohan


Sep 23 2012, 3:57pm

Post #10 of 54 (613 views)
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I like them better, as well [In reply to] Can't Post

Albeit the glimpses are looking very CGI, they also look more "goblin-esque" to my mind than the rubber suits of LotR. If they can't scale walls like cockroaches, I'd consider it a bonus.

Man is but an ass if he go about to expound this dream.


Owain
Tol Eressea


Sep 23 2012, 4:24pm

Post #11 of 54 (622 views)
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I actually like these goblins. [In reply to] Can't Post

For me, it's great to see a different look for a different time period in Middle Earth.

Since the War of the Ring is not the main focus of every race of Middle Earth in this story, I like their almost tribal appearance.

Smile

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


Elutherian
Rohan


Sep 23 2012, 4:28pm

Post #12 of 54 (634 views)
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A Hobbit Goblin.... [In reply to] Can't Post

...A...... Hoblin?

I'm proud of myself for that.

The Grey Pilgrim, they once called me. Three hundred lives of men I walked this earth, and now I have no time...


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Sep 23 2012, 4:33pm

Post #13 of 54 (611 views)
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I like the new designs as well [In reply to] Can't Post

The creatures in Goblin-town seem like a distant off-shoot of the Orcs we've seen before, but also appear like something which would really live in a subterranean environment...they remind me a bit of HG Wells' Morlocks or as has been mentioned "Nosferatu". I do think they could do with some more armor, but overall, I like their look. The Goblin King also seems appropriately nasty, though I'd have preferred if they'd stayed a bit closer to the apparent concept art from the annual.

I also imagine we'll be seeing larger Orcs as well...those in Dol Guldur look pretty much identical to the Orcs from the LotR trilogy; E. Lilly mentioned last year having to fight Orcs which were "ten feet tall" (Bolg or Azog's bodyguard, or other Orcs coming from the same stock?), and GdT also mentioned having designed "Gundabad Orcs" when he was director, meaning that if they remain in the film, there's ANOTHER breed of Orc (different enough to require their own designation) than those in the Misty Mountains or Dol Guldur which we still haven't seen yet (and will likely appear at the BoFA).

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Carne
Tol Eressea

Sep 23 2012, 4:37pm

Post #14 of 54 (630 views)
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Gundabad orcs [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink http://www.starnow.com/alexandergrahamreid

Very good site to find people involved in the movies.

Do you happen to have a link to that Lilly interview?


(This post was edited by Carne on Sep 23 2012, 4:38pm)


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Sep 23 2012, 4:48pm

Post #15 of 54 (575 views)
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That's right, I'd forgotten about him! [In reply to] Can't Post

So it seems the Gundabad Orcs are in the films after all. Smile

Here's the E. Lilly interview:

Working on "The Hobbit," though, has radically changed how she readies herself for a role. "I can't just be spontaneous, because there is nothing natural about being an elf," Lilly said. "It's not human, so I have to study to learn what it means to be this other creature."

This means Lilly has had to train to walk, talk, and, of course, fight like an elf. She said, "So, on top of my stunt training -- which I need to learn how to be proficient with the bow and arrow, and with daggers, and in fighting orcs that are, you know, ten feet tall...When you add in learning to move and gesture like an elf, Lilly figures she has spent "four times as much time preparing as I do actually shooting."


http://movies.yahoo.com/...tions-021536348.html

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!

(This post was edited by Captain Salt on Sep 23 2012, 4:49pm)


Elthir
Gondor

Sep 23 2012, 5:44pm

Post #16 of 54 (505 views)
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I agree [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
And if "almost man-high" was considered massive, most goblins should be shorter.



I agree. And not that the filmmakers will care, or need to care (or listen to me), but I think the range of goblins tops off at 'almost' man-high, with the Half-orcs at man-high (for clarity I don't think Tolkien meant 'man-high' = 6 foot 4 in the instances where this term appears in The Lord of the Rings).

As for smaller kinds, I note that in Mordor Frodo and Sam were bending somewhat when they moved into the lines of smaller goblins (smaller compared to the uruks with the whips), and even bending they don't seem to stand out as notably too small. Sam also noted that some of the orc-gear was a better fit for Frodo, but the tokens would not do.

We might have quite the range of goblins from about Hobbit-size (around 3 foot 6-ish, possibly the wolf-riders? although we could have large wolves of course) all the way up to some huge types like this Uruk in Moria, Bolg's guard, or a number of Saruman's lads.

I'm not sure E. Lilly meant 10 feet tall exactly (she might have simply meant 'really big' I think), but in any event, as I say, the films are under no constraint to follow the books... even if this range is accurate.


Elessar
Valinor


Sep 23 2012, 5:45pm

Post #17 of 54 (500 views)
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Love it [In reply to] Can't Post

I really dig the look. I have no doubts there are different breeds of orcs and goblins all over middle-earth. So seeing something a little different compared to lotr I think is makes sense and gives to the diversity of the world. Also, isn't there text someplace talking about the different breeds of Orc/Goblins?



BrendanRawa
The Shire

Sep 23 2012, 5:57pm

Post #18 of 54 (541 views)
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I really dislike the new GCI goblins [In reply to] Can't Post

Compare them to these goblins in the fellowship:

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/...es/d/dd/Goblins2.jpg
http://webzoom.freewebs.com/...000000agobfreaky.jpg

They just look awful in comparison. Not scary, and no continuity.


(This post was edited by BrendanRawa on Sep 23 2012, 5:58pm)


Elthir
Gondor

Sep 23 2012, 5:57pm

Post #19 of 54 (493 views)
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Goblin texts [In reply to] Can't Post

There are various texts upon which to base some ideas or suggestions of course, like the description of the two orcs whose conversation is overheard in Mordor after Frodo and Sam escape Cirith Ungol, but -- not that I'm aware of anyway -- no single, detailed text that lists or describes various types or breeds.

In the trailer the Great Goblin looks quite large -- if that's him falling on the Dwarves I mean.


(This post was edited by Elthir on Sep 23 2012, 6:02pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 23 2012, 5:58pm

Post #20 of 54 (537 views)
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I like the design, but hope for some Goblins similar to the FOTR ones. [In reply to] Can't Post

Just for continuity. Smile


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Carne
Tol Eressea

Sep 23 2012, 6:06pm

Post #21 of 54 (507 views)
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We've barely seen anything of the new goblins [In reply to] Can't Post

That's rather quick judging :/

Plus as I've said before, they're a mixture of full body suits and CG.

And what do you mean by 'continuity'? There can be several different breeds of goblins/orcs. Do they really need to look identical to the Moria ones?

Again, we've only seen the new goblins from behind and from distances. I'd say wait for the close ups.


(This post was edited by Carne on Sep 23 2012, 6:08pm)


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 23 2012, 6:45pm

Post #22 of 54 (466 views)
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Don't really like those [In reply to] Can't Post

Always just looked like actors in bad costumes to me.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Sep 23 2012, 8:05pm

Post #23 of 54 (419 views)
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Hobgoblin? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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Fardragon
Rohan

Sep 23 2012, 8:17pm

Post #24 of 54 (432 views)
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Since Sam and Frodo [In reply to] Can't Post

can pass themselves off as goblins, there is clearly nothing unusual about 3'6" goblins.

The books suggest a wide range of different sizes and breeds of goblin, but the Uruk-Hai are supposed to be larger than most goblins. Since they are human sized, it's reasonable to suppose that most goblins are smaller than humans.

Gollum also regularly kills and eats lone goblins, and I doubt he would do that if they where significantly bigger than him.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...

(This post was edited by Fardragon on Sep 23 2012, 8:19pm)


triptrap
Lorien

Sep 23 2012, 8:39pm

Post #25 of 54 (383 views)
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well i disagree on that [In reply to] Can't Post

i think gollum would easily be able to also kill a man-high orc. he is after all quite savage and strong and ofc he has the ring...

I don't know, it's just that from reading the Hobbit and the description of the orcs as being really big i do have a very different picture of them.

But of course there's a lot of different orc breeds, and of course we have only seen small glimpses and of course i'll wait for the final orcs in the movie.
But from what we've seen i didn't think they were very impressive in terms of being evil and frightening whereas the orcs in LOTR felt like total badasses to me

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