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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Thoughts on The Great Goblin?
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Elessar
Valinor


Sep 20 2012, 11:49pm

Post #51 of 83 (426 views)
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Can't find the photo I took. [In reply to] Can't Post

Can take one with my iPad if you'd like.

Edit: it was just the head shot from the annual like above.



(This post was edited by Elessar on Sep 20 2012, 11:51pm)


Vangalad
Lorien


Sep 21 2012, 12:04am

Post #52 of 83 (414 views)
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That's fine, [In reply to] Can't Post

you don't have to.
I just thought there could be something we hadn't already seen.


All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.


Elessar
Valinor


Sep 21 2012, 12:13am

Post #53 of 83 (452 views)
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My bad. I was thinking you might not have seen the pics. [In reply to] Can't Post

 



MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Sep 21 2012, 2:03am

Post #54 of 83 (412 views)
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i'm not convinced [In reply to] Can't Post

i think your trying too hard there bud to prove its the great goblin, looks more like a troll to me. there was also light-heartedness in LOTR's, and plenty of it. Sam hitting orcs with his pan in moria?



Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 21 2012, 4:39am

Post #55 of 83 (389 views)
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Sam hitting orcs with his pan [In reply to] Can't Post

Was not exactly a highlight in the film (never heard anyone describe it positively, really) and was a brief, and very minor, moment.

This involves one of the key major villains of film 1 being part of an implausible gag, all for the sake of setting up a bad joke.

Big difference.

And it is almost certainly the Great Goblin, due to the very simple fact that he's wearing a crown...


Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan


Sep 21 2012, 4:50am

Post #56 of 83 (375 views)
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Okay... [In reply to] Can't Post

How about the crown then?


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Sep 21 2012, 5:10am

Post #57 of 83 (358 views)
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and did i say.... [In reply to] Can't Post

sam hitting orcs with his pan was the highlight of the film?? so i suppose your saying that the great goblin falling on-top of the dwarves will be the highlight of the film...? also The Hobbit was a children's book was it not? so why are you guys so upset that its not as dark/mature as LOTR's which was geared for the adult demo?



MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Sep 21 2012, 5:16am

Post #58 of 83 (364 views)
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sorry i did not freeze frame the entire trailer [In reply to] Can't Post

i thought the goblin king was that thing on the german card released a few weeks ago, nevertheless i'm not disappointed in the least bit, after all he is the "great" goblin.



Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan


Sep 21 2012, 5:20am

Post #59 of 83 (361 views)
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So... [In reply to] Can't Post

Alexander the "great" when portrayed on film should weigh 6000 kilos and have a chin down to his knees? I mean it's not as if we don't know the size capabilities of a man...

I mean in Rings we saw hundreds of orcs bigger than a troll...didn't we?

No matter how you spin it -he looks terrible. His hand is bigger than Dwalin!!!


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Sep 21 2012, 5:30am

Post #60 of 83 (367 views)
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oh...wow [In reply to] Can't Post

well if i'm not mistaken alexander the great is part of 'real' life history not fiction, and if i'm not mistaken again there is no fossil record of a 6000 kilo man or am i wrong? Tolkien describes the great goblin as a "great" goblin, meaning big/huge in size and also he is very very old, so why couldn't he have reached that size over a long period of time of just sitting around eating and eating..?



Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan


Sep 21 2012, 5:36am

Post #61 of 83 (369 views)
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Clearly that went over your head... [In reply to] Can't Post

I was pointing out that just because someone has a "great" tacked onto their name doesn't mean they can suddenly be as big as King Kong Unsure

And yes it is fiction -but Jackson already layed down the "rules" with the rings films...

Now as to The Great Goblin getting that big from "sitting around eating food" I say this -sure! It could affect his waistline but NOT his height!

You can argue the point all you like, but ask almost every poster whether they thought that was a troll or the big man himself?? Indeed.


leonmuse
Rivendell

Sep 21 2012, 5:45am

Post #62 of 83 (364 views)
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Weird [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll be very frank here and say i didnt like to see him dead on a trailer. I wanted to see him dying on the movie. Such a pity :P


totoro
Lorien

Sep 21 2012, 5:55am

Post #63 of 83 (375 views)
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Like I imagined [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought the Great Goblin was supposed to be giant. I would have been surprised if he was no larger than any other goblin. The artwork has always portrayed him as large, and the book portrayed him as large, too, though it did not describe exactly how large. He is supposedly a relative of the Balrogs that took the form of a huge goblin, but is not actually a goblin. Kind of like how Gandalf took the form of a man, but is not really a man.

I don't understand what the big deal is. You wanted the Great Goblin to be smaller to suit some psychological need? Get over it. You wanted PJ to read your mind as do as you demanded? Get help.


Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan


Sep 21 2012, 5:59am

Post #64 of 83 (347 views)
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Personal attack? [In reply to] Can't Post

Are you for real? Go away... You are boring me.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 21 2012, 6:21am

Post #65 of 83 (354 views)
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Since your arrival [In reply to] Can't Post

Your tone has been hostile and rude. Please read Silverlode's thread on the subject of forum etiquette, and try to stick to debating issues, not attacking persons.


duats
Grey Havens

Sep 21 2012, 6:27am

Post #66 of 83 (330 views)
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.....? [In reply to] Can't Post

"He is supposedly a relative of the Balrogs that took the form of a huge goblin, but is not actually a goblin. Kind of like how Gandalf took the form of a man, but is not really a man."

Er... I don't know where you heard that, but it's inaccurate to say the least. He is what he is: a large goblin.


(This post was edited by duats on Sep 21 2012, 6:28am)


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 21 2012, 6:31am

Post #67 of 83 (358 views)
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Could you provide the source you are referencing for that? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have never heard anything about the Great Goblin actually being a Balrog...


totoro
Lorien

Sep 21 2012, 6:35am

Post #68 of 83 (337 views)
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Sorry [In reply to] Can't Post

I did not intend the remark to be a personal attack, but it does come across that way. What I should have said is I think the portrayal of the Great Goblin as large in artwork and potential, though not explicit, huge size in the book led me to think the Great Goblin was the size he is portrayed in the trailer. I think that those involved in the GG's movie debut were perfectly reasonable in following that tradition.

In Reply To
Your tone has been hostile and rude. Please read Silverlode's thread on the subject of forum etiquette, and try to stick to debating issues, not attacking persons.



totoro
Lorien

Sep 21 2012, 6:39am

Post #69 of 83 (331 views)
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I didn't say he was a Balrog [In reply to] Can't Post

I am surprised you did not know he was a relative. I'll give you a hint: it starts with an M.


In Reply To
I have never heard anything about the Great Goblin actually being a Balrog...



Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 21 2012, 6:45am

Post #70 of 83 (328 views)
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Sorry to say this [In reply to] Can't Post

But you have been almost certainly misinformed. Nowhere does Tolkien suggest that the Great Goblin is one of the Maiar.

Did Rateliff suggest something along these lines in the Annotated Hobbit?


(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Sep 21 2012, 6:48am)


totoro
Lorien

Sep 21 2012, 6:57am

Post #71 of 83 (357 views)
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I am not suggesting this is proof, but quoting wikipedia [In reply to] Can't Post

There are hints in the History of Middle-earth series of books, (especially in Morgoth's Ring in the section "Myths Transformed"), that some Orc leaders, such as the First Age's Boldog, or the Great Goblin encountered by Bilbo and the Dwarves, may in fact have been fallen Maiar which had taken Orc form:


I know my Hobbit and LotR pretty well, but must confess I have not read much of the other materials. I thought this was well-known and accepted.


stormcrow20
Gondor


Sep 21 2012, 8:20am

Post #72 of 83 (323 views)
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Pantastic! [In reply to] Can't Post

Good ol' Sam, that hobbit has more than a few skills with a skillet!

I thought Sam's use of his frying pan in battle was a nice touch. I seem to remember others here had positive opinions of it, as well. It certainly makes a practical weapon in a pinch! And it looks as if Bombur will use his ladle and cleaver in a similar fashion. I'd wager he's rather clever with that cleaver! Goblin-cleaver, that is. Tongue

Now, despite my own bad jokes, I totally agree about the Great Goblin (if that is him).



In Reply To
Sam hitting orcs with his pan...was not exactly a highlight in the film (never heard anyone describe it positively, really) and was a brief, and very minor, moment.

This involves one of the key major villains of film 1 being part of an implausible gag, all for the sake of setting up a bad joke.





(This post was edited by stormcrow20 on Sep 21 2012, 8:26am)


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Sep 21 2012, 1:23pm

Post #73 of 83 (269 views)
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SA is right. [In reply to] Can't Post

Saying someone should "get help" is very personal and against our Terms of Service. Further violations result in a formal warning, and after three warnings, the user is banned. Reading Silverlode's post might help clarify our rules for posting here.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Sep 21 2012, 1:49pm

Post #74 of 83 (255 views)
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Perhaps the Great Goblin should not be played as the arch villain some of you desire. [In reply to] Can't Post

First off the Great Goblin is not called King in the text. Secondly Goblins are not too bright. Keeping with the lighter nature of the Hobbit in general the Great Goblin should not be taken seriously as an enemy. How ever I am curious as to what has been worked out to cause his death. If not a thrust from Glamdring then what?

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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triptrap
Lorien

Sep 21 2012, 3:02pm

Post #75 of 83 (236 views)
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big like for his design [In reply to] Can't Post

if we're only talking about his design: i love it and it comes pretty close to what i had imagined him. in the end he is what he is - a big, fat, nasty orc

what i didn't like was that he fell on the dwarves, not because of humor(i found that ok), but because this way it takes out a scene of the book i loved - Gandalf splitting the GG into halfs or at least beheading him seems much cooler and also ads to the opinion of gandalf that the viewer may have: a mighty wizard, who just disappears and then turns up to instantly slay that beast.

on a side note: what do you guys think about the general design of the orcs? In general i like that new "breed" of orcs if you want so(especially their heads and long arms), but i think (of course based on the few glimpses in the trailer) they are much too small and not terrifying enough. I mean seriously, most of them have the maximum height of a hobbit and are smaller than even dwarves http://www-images.theonering.org/images/hobbittrailer02/hobbittrailer02-064.jpg
whereas in the book they are described as "giant, goblin-like creatures"

also, they lack some armor i thinkUnsure

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