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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor
Sep 13 2012, 11:29pm
Post #26 of 77
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They were not bad scenes at all
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But still felt contrived and unnatural, as do many of PJ's "small moments."
Just don't dig his style when he zeros in on character moments. They feel like photo ops turned into dialogue scenes.
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There&ThereAgain
Rohan
Sep 14 2012, 12:13am
Post #27 of 77
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with Boromir is one of PJ's finest moments in the whole trilogy.
It's hard to have intimate character moments in a FILM like LOTR when the tone is so epic. It still works for me, but certainly not how a typical drama or indie dramady would do it.
"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien
"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas
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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor
Sep 14 2012, 1:03am
Post #29 of 77
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It is hard for me to believe that they can turn that set into something believable. I hope it looks better than Fangorn, at the very least...
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Elutherian
Rohan
Sep 14 2012, 1:13am
Post #30 of 77
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A narcoleptic Bombur would actually be hilarious.
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I think I'm in the minority here, but I largely enjoy Peter Jackson's humor (with the sole exception of Gimli in Paths of the Dead), and I think it will fit perfectly here.
The Grey Pilgrim, they once called me. Three hundred lives of men I walked this earth, and now I have no time...
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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor
Sep 14 2012, 1:15am
Post #31 of 77
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I envy you. If I could just enjoy the humor in PJ's LOTR, I would be a happier man.
However, as there is much more natural humor in the Hobbit book, I think he'll be relying a tad more on Tolkien this time.
I think, or I hope?
Hard to tell these days. 
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Ardamírë
Valinor
Sep 14 2012, 1:15am
Post #32 of 77
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Thanks for these! I'm so happy! I think Mirkwood is going to be great 
"Now this babe was of greatest beauty; his skin of a shining white and his eyes of a blue surpassing that of the sky in southern lands - bluer than the sapphires of the raiment of Manwë; and the envy of Meglin was deep at his birth, but the joy of Turgon and all the people very great indeed." -The Fall of Gondolin
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There&ThereAgain
Rohan
Sep 14 2012, 1:23am
Post #33 of 77
(419 views)
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is opening for Arcade Fire this summer
thanks for these photos, can't believe I didn't notice them in the vlogs!
"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien
"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas
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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor
Sep 14 2012, 1:27am
Post #34 of 77
(416 views)
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The perfect indie rock band name, isn't it?
(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Sep 14 2012, 1:27am)
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Estel78
Tol Eressea
Sep 14 2012, 1:27am
Post #35 of 77
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Humor was good, the only bits i didn't like was in the extended scenes during the paths of the dead (including the pirates encounter).
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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor
Sep 14 2012, 1:28am
Post #36 of 77
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That makes you find PJ's humor genuinely funny? I would love to have a sip...
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The Grey Wanderer
Lorien
Sep 14 2012, 1:36am
Post #37 of 77
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I seem to recall seeing him being carried in one of the clips we have seen.//
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Milknut
Rohan
Sep 14 2012, 1:39am
Post #38 of 77
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I'm sorry, I just don't buy it.
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I just reread the battle scene to check and there was nothing explicit. Bolg is "crushed" by Beorn, not decapitated, and neither is the great goblin (a shining sword is described as going "right through" him). In neither case is the death described explicitly.
Fili and Kili die, but they do it offscreen. Thorin dies presumably in pain but there is not one reference to it (and yes, it matters in this discussion because implied pain is much less dark than described pain).
I couldn't find a single reference to heads on spikes outside Beorn's house (neither when they first arrive nor when they come back at the end of the book... where were you referring to?)
As far as the battle goes, there were a few general references to wolves doing some rending and to orc blood. I didn't find any gruesome descriptions of elves or dwarves dying.
You're right, a fourth of Lake-Town does die in the fire and the rest suffer sickness, cold, and hunger. But again it's in a general sense with no explicit descriptions. Dale is destroyed in the past so we don't see these things happening.
The master of Laketown does not go insane, he gets "dragon sickness"; i.e. greed.
Gollum is not clearly schizophrenic but it is possible and that's how they interpreted it in the LOTR movies.
The ponies are eaten offscreen, probably alive but we don't know.
Tolkien describes things in a general sense but we don't get any individual descriptions of most of the events that are horrific. This is the main problem I have with most of your list: these things are present, but they aren't emphasized in a way that makes the book especially dark. The reason I think The Hunger Games is darker is not because I have some agenda that requires it to be, it just happens to have gorier, darker descriptions. Seriously, read Cato's death scene.
I also happen to think children murdering each other for sport is a darker subject matter than a war with goblins. Sure, it's all death, but I think young readers are able to contextualize fantasy war a little bit better. The tone of The Hobbit isn't dark and that I think is what matters. I do think the same events could be narrated in such a way as to make The Hobbit darker than The Hunger Games, I just don't think Tolkien wrote it that way. I'm not going to say TH isn't dark or doesn't deserve a PG-13 rating if represented literally, but I will say that THG is much more so.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie___
(This post was edited by Milknut on Sep 14 2012, 1:40am)
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Elutherian
Rohan
Sep 14 2012, 1:40am
Post #39 of 77
(415 views)
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I always skip over that scene when I watch the trilogy
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Just pop in the second disc, press the "skip forward" button on the remote, start part II with Shelob's Lair.
The Grey Pilgrim, they once called me. Three hundred lives of men I walked this earth, and now I have no time...
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Elutherian
Rohan
Sep 14 2012, 1:41am
Post #40 of 77
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...about the line "Nobody tosses a dwarf!"?
That line = Comic Gold. 
The Grey Pilgrim, they once called me. Three hundred lives of men I walked this earth, and now I have no time...
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Estel78
Tol Eressea
Sep 14 2012, 1:47am
Post #41 of 77
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How can you not like him? What elixir did you drink that made you lose your sense of humor?
(This post was edited by Estel78 on Sep 14 2012, 1:48am)
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DarkJackal
Rohan
Sep 14 2012, 2:04am
Post #42 of 77
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I keep seeing too many psychedelic mushrooms for my liking, even in the promo shots. Hoping that is still to be worked on.
Season of the Witch was a movie that I can't say many positive things about, but one of the few was an evil forest that looked menacing but believable. I thought if they did Mirkwood like that I would be happy.
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GoodGuyA
Lorien
Sep 14 2012, 2:58am
Post #43 of 77
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Those moments further character
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Character is at the heart of the films, rather than the world which I believe is what Tolkien is trying to present to us most. The world is a backdrop for people to walk around in and follow their adventures, I feel, no matter the work. Deciding which way to go to Moria, in the books, is quite literal. "Can we go this way? No. Can we go that way? No. I guess it's Moria time!" In the films, it's a decision which rests on Frodo solely, and they don't keep him in the dark about it as in the books. That's far more powerful, I'd say, then the "mystery" that Gandalf and Aragorn keep with it. Moria all ready has enough foreshadowing when they do speak about it. There's no reason to not to, especially when it deliberately misguides the company.
The text meanders a lot on stuff that doesn't need meandering on. They explain countless times about why Caradhras hates them. Okay, cool I guess, a feeling mountain. Can you get off it anytime soon? The scenes with Boromir particularly show him actually growing a motivation without explicitly speaking it. Sure, it required his character to actually have an arc (oh no!), but it was towards furthering the audiences understanding of them instead of just bridging scene. If I recall correctly, it takes them like 2 days to get down to Moria after deciding to turn around? It doesn't make the reveal more miraculous or the journey seem any harder. It's just wasting time, I feel.
Anyways, there's my "camping" rant 
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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor
Sep 14 2012, 3:26am
Post #44 of 77
(389 views)
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These stories have stood the test of time, and seem to be beloved as books second only to the Bible.
I doubt the modern soap opera fantasy writers like GRRM and Jordan will be remembered with such reverence in a few decades.
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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor
Sep 14 2012, 3:42am
Post #45 of 77
(367 views)
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And I don't think it made me lose my sense of humor, but it did seem to make me find stuff that's not funny...not funny.
Honestly, I think 3/4 of the people here on TORN (from DanieLB to Lacrimae Rerum) are infinitely funnier than PJ could ever be (at least in his scripts).
Interestingly, though, away from his movies he seems to generally be a pretty amusing guy, with a refreshing sense of humor...
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GoodGuyA
Lorien
Sep 14 2012, 4:29am
Post #46 of 77
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You're taking this time to bash on other authors? How sly...
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All I'm saying is that, in terms of these films, that purpose lays above all. The only time I've mentioned the other two authors (just for the record, Jordan isn't all that good, IMO) was about language... In another thread. We're not arguing lastability here, we're arguing flow and craft. Bringing that up is a bit advantageous like a time to bash on my tastes as a whole, even when I plainly state that Tolkien's works are clearly classic. It's just not the proper place for that type of argument 
Perhaps we need an off-topic GoodGuy vs SA thread! The never ending battle! 
(This post was edited by GoodGuyA on Sep 14 2012, 4:30am)
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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor
Sep 14 2012, 12:36pm
Post #50 of 77
(258 views)
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I think some of it has to do with your very undiplomatic way of criticizing Tolkien for features of his writing that many here enjoy and find exceptional. Perhaps more IMOs?
I don't know.
Anyway, no need to continue this. It's all about different tastes, in the end, and nothing more!
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