Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
If LOTR was adapted now AFTER a 3-film Hobbit...

micha84
Rivendell

Sep 8 2012, 12:46pm


Views: 1334
Shortcut
If LOTR was adapted now AFTER a 3-film Hobbit... Can't Post

I'm not one of those who have a problem with 3 Hobbit films. But I see why people feel it's not appropriate. If you tell LOTR in only 3 films, why then the much shorter Hobbit in 3? With The Hobbit, they apparently take a lot of time to let the story unfold, nothing will feel compressed and rushed. What annoys me is that the LOTR did not get that treatment. LOTR as 3 films could not possibly get that treatment. Too many events, too little time to tell everything properly... FOTR was a long and eventful movie even though so much was cut completely. If the LOTR films hadn't been done yet, if it would be the next project after these Hobbit films (and boy I wish it was!) they would make more than 3 films, and it would be good! I thought about it a bit, and I think these 5 films would be perfect!

01: "The Return of the Shadow"
adapted from Tolkien: 12 chapters (all of Book 1)
Bilbo's birthday party until the Council of Elrond. This would include Crickhollow, the Old Forest, the Barrows. Bombadil would be in, but not quite as jolly as in the book, more of a mysterious character. At Weathertop we would get a flashback as Aragorn tells about the Northern Kingdom and its fall, giving some background on the barrows and hinting at the Witchking but not telling too much about Angmar since the Nazgl are close by. Maybe his tale about Beren and Luthien could be longer, as in the book, and illustrated with a few scenes... Bringing the ring to Rivendell really is one story. Frodo and Sam even think the adventure is over, then we hear Elrond's conversation that the ring cannot stay in Rivendell... it ends with Frodo taking the task upon himself to get the ring to Mordor. Great ending!

02: "The Fellowship of the Ring"
adapted from Tolkien: 10 chapters (all of Book 2)
We begin with a flashback-prologue from Aragorn's past and him and his mother seeking refuge in Rivendell, then cut to the present and Aragorn's conversation with Elrond about Arwen. Aragorn says farewell to Arwen, that it was just a dream etc. and he sets off with the Fellowship - I never liked how this scene was given as a flashback, it makes more sense to present it here, right before "the ring goes south"... Among the events not included in PJ's adaptation is Legolas shooting down a Nazgl while they camp at the Anduin. More screentime for Lothlorien could include background on Galadriels past. Not too detailled since the Silmarillion is off limits, but some stuff could be told. The film ends as PJ's FOTR did, it can't be improved really.

03: "The Two Towers"
adapted from Tolkien: 10 chapters (Book 3 I-VII, Book 4 I-III)
This movie would basically be like PJ's TTT, but with the difference that Frodo's story line ends earlier. It would have the advantage of intercutting the time lines more correctly: in TTT as it was done, Helm's Deep is followed by the Journey to the Crossroads. Those events are not happening at the same time. As I outline it, Gandalf's "Our hopes rest on two hobbits somewhere in the wilderness" would cut to the Black Gate. The silly scene with the two soldiers and the Elven cloak would be out or treated much better. The gate closes, and Frodo agrees to let Gollum guide them along a different path, and as they follow Gollum, the camera moves up and we get a peek across the mountain range into Mordor... perfect ending! Very similar to PJ's visually, but at a more appropriate point chronologically. Leaving out Ithilien and Faramir shortens this film quite a bit compared to PJ's TTT, but it would make room for some more time in Fangorn and Edoras.

04: "The War of the Ring"
adapted from Tolkien: 11 chapters (Book 3 VIII-XI, Book 4 IV-X)
Now things get really interesting structurally. ROTK is very unsatisfying to me in that respect. The script is too crammed. I see why Shelob had to be in ROTK if you only do 3 films, but it just made the final film too complicated. So my idea is to let the final film be book 5 and 6 without ANY book 4 stuff. It's just too much.
This fourth film I called "The War of the Ring", but it's really more about the build-up to that war's main battle. We begin with the Smeagol/Deagol prologue from PJ's ROTK, and from there edit to "Herb's and stewed rabbit"! What follows is the voice of Saruman and getting the Palantir. Saruman dies by the hand of Grma, but doesn't fall on the wheel, instead it's visually closer to Tolkien's description of his body dissolving somehow in the wind... when Pippin looks into the Palantir, this opportunity to show Sauron as more than a flaming eyeball will be ceased! He will appear as a powerful Dark Lord in Pippin's mind. (In my dream adaptation, The "eye" only appears in those "Gandalf touching the ring"/"Frodo having a vision" moments. There would be no giant eyeball on top of Barad-dr...) - During the film we follow Aragorn's journey to Dunharrow, until the point where he enters the Paths of the Dead... all of this much closer to the book, but I would agree with one difference that PJ made: that Aragorn looks into the Palantir before setting off for the Black Gate, not yet here before the Paths of the Dead. We also see Gandalf and Pippin ride off towards Gondor and the Muster of Rohan towards the end of the film.
As for Frodo's storyline: the Hennuth Annun sequence includes the flashback to the retaking of Osgiliath and our first glimpse of Denethor. I agree with PJ's decision to let Faramir have a development, and him being tempted to "show his quality" and prove himself to his father by bringing the ring to Minas Tirith, it's great character stuff! And in the end, Faramir is totally Tolkien's Faramir, so that's fine. But we only get to Osgiliath, Minas Tirith is only glanced in the distance yet... The scene with Frodo offering the ring to the Nazgl is stupid beyond belief and out! The crossroads and Minas Morgul follow, Frodo and Sam encounter Shelob TOGETHER. The film ends with Frodo being captured and Sam taking the ring, just as Tolkien ended Book 4!

05: "The Return of the King"
adapted from Tolkien: 19 chapters (all of Books 5 and 6)
This film is basically PJ's ROTK minus Minas Morgul/Shelob, but with some other significant differences... It begings with a flashback-prologue about the Palantiri, voiced by Gandalf, and we cut to him and Pippin riding on Shadowfax, realizing that the prologue is what Gandalf tells Pippin. They encouter the men who repair the outer wall and arrive in Minas Tirith. Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli come to the Stone of Erech. All this treated much better than in PJ's ROTK, because if Shelob is in film 4, there is time for this! Even for Ghn-buri-Ghn. There also is more time in Minas Tirith for a proper Denethor and some great flashback scenes that tell us that this city is culturally heir to Numenor! You wouldn't want to miss the oportunity to design Numenor, would you? We would understand Minas Tirith and what's at stake much better. Sauron isn't fighting Numenor for the first time, this is only the final showdown of a history of battles between him and the Men of the West, and we need to understand that much better than PJ's ROTK makes possible! The Witchking would have his gorgeous flaming sword moment, but would not break Gandalf's staff (of course not!). Gandalf also wouldn't use said staff to knock out Denethor (what were they thinking...)
The Mouth of Sauron would be in, there would be more scenes in Mordor with Frodo and Sam after Sam rescues Frodo from the tower, and the ending of the movie might as well be exactly as PJ did it (no scouring of the Shire). All in all this would be a movie just as long as ROTK, but because Minas Morgul and Shelob are in the previous one, there is proper time for Aragorn and Denethor, and the movie would feel less crammed. Could be awesome!


That would make for a more satisfying adaptation, I think. If The Hobbit was treated like the LOTR trilogy, it would be two films. But I'm glad they take more time than on LOTR, they don't rush things and compress the story. Especially ROTK suffers from having to simplify plots and characters! They would have treated all that differently and closer to the book in a 5-film adaption. And as much as people praise PJ's LOTR trilogy: the scripts have major flaws! Not because the writers were amateurs, but because the limited screentime forced them to make some really unfortunate decisions. The music, the costumes, everything is so gorgeous, but then the scripts have those severe flaws...

I don't think these movies will be remade in my lifetime. But if PJ is crazy enough to make 3 Hobbit films out of 2 after principal photography has ended, maybe he would shoot more stuff for LOTR and completely re-edit the films. I even wouldn't mind if they shot a lot of LOTR again from scratch and came out with 5 3D movies that perfectly tie in with the adaption of the Hobbit, that flow just like The Hobbit, take their time to tell the tale well.

And those 5 movies as outlined above all have a great story arc, I think, they all would make sense as films. Would you agree? And would you like to see PJ work over the trilogy to spread the story over 5 films? This would be an unprecedented move, but one could argue that it would only turn the films into what they would have been if PJ had made LOTR after a successful Hobbit adaptation...


(This post was edited by micha84 on Sep 8 2012, 12:55pm)

Subject User Time
If LOTR was adapted now AFTER a 3-film Hobbit... micha84 Send a private message to micha84 Sep 8 2012, 12:46pm
    Sorry, I can't except your premise... Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Sep 8 2012, 2:42pm
        Oops! Make that 'accept'. // Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Sep 8 2012, 6:15pm
    -exhale- Okay... Let's get started on this. GoodGuyA Send a private message to GoodGuyA Sep 8 2012, 5:14pm
        "Osgiliath without there being any emotional climax there becomes as pointless as Bombadil" Solicitr Send a private message to Solicitr Sep 8 2012, 5:45pm
            Well... Harold.of.Whoa Send a private message to Harold.of.Whoa Sep 9 2012, 2:01am
        Bombadil... Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Sep 8 2012, 6:23pm
        Great points! micha84 Send a private message to micha84 Sep 8 2012, 7:00pm
        Brian Sibley geordie Send a private message to geordie Sep 8 2012, 7:36pm
        You really forget a lot of cinematic material that's in the book, but wasn't in the films Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 9 2012, 12:44am
            Not possible given the expectations of the general public GoodGuyA Send a private message to GoodGuyA Sep 9 2012, 1:17am
                I didn't say they would be based on the six books Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 9 2012, 3:09am
                    non-book material micha84 Send a private message to micha84 Sep 9 2012, 8:01am
                        Mining = fanfic Solicitr Send a private message to Solicitr Sep 11 2012, 5:56pm
                            not quite Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Sep 11 2012, 6:14pm
                                And what else... Solicitr Send a private message to Solicitr Sep 11 2012, 7:50pm
                                    That's not really all that is there Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Sep 11 2012, 8:09pm
                                    Refefrences that you missed... Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Sep 11 2012, 8:52pm
                                        That doesn't help very much, does it? Solicitr Send a private message to Solicitr Sep 11 2012, 8:58pm
                                            Well, there is a bit more in the Council of Elrond... Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Sep 11 2012, 9:13pm
                                                And.... Solicitr Send a private message to Solicitr Sep 11 2012, 9:23pm
                                                    'Devices" is followed by "weapons" in the next sentence... Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Sep 11 2012, 10:59pm
                                                        Exactly. Solicitr Send a private message to Solicitr Sep 12 2012, 12:23am
                                                    I do agree that PJ is a very immature director Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 12 2012, 1:59am
                            Frodo does not offer the ring to the Nazgul kzer_za Send a private message to kzer_za Sep 11 2012, 6:18pm
                                Frodo gives in there micha84 Send a private message to micha84 Sep 11 2012, 7:53pm
                            They're also the ones who "mined" the appendices during LOTR Ardamr Send a private message to Ardamr Sep 11 2012, 7:00pm
                            Mining = finding gold micha84 Send a private message to micha84 Sep 11 2012, 7:47pm
                                The right? Solicitr Send a private message to Solicitr Sep 11 2012, 7:53pm
            Things I missed in PJs films Mr. Arkenstone (isaac) Send a private message to Mr. Arkenstone (isaac) Sep 10 2012, 9:52am
    This would make a brilliant six films Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 9 2012, 12:33am
    if LOTR Elenorflower Send a private message to Elenorflower Sep 15 2012, 11:13pm
        Truly, I feel it's the only real option GoodGuyA Send a private message to GoodGuyA Sep 16 2012, 12:16am
            Perhaps, but honestly Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 18 2012, 4:17am
                yeah me too Elenorflower Send a private message to Elenorflower Sep 18 2012, 12:48pm
                You are so picky! GoodGuyA Send a private message to GoodGuyA Sep 18 2012, 6:32pm
                    You misunderstood me Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 19 2012, 4:59am
                        Not a chance Elessar Send a private message to Elessar Sep 19 2012, 12:56pm
                            Why play politics Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Sep 19 2012, 1:06pm
                                Agreed 100% Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 20 2012, 9:01am
                            IMO Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 20 2012, 9:27am
                                Even though they had to cut so much from the book due to their budget being too slim? // macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Sep 20 2012, 9:33am
                                    Yes Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 21 2012, 5:08am
                                        Yes Solicitr Send a private message to Solicitr Sep 21 2012, 9:02pm
                                            Don't do that to me Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Sep 22 2012, 12:45am
                                                How about early Roland Joffe? kzer_za Send a private message to kzer_za Sep 22 2012, 2:02pm
                                        I didn't say that! macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Sep 21 2012, 9:16pm
                                            Wrong... Ereinion Nnharma Send a private message to Ereinion Nnharma Sep 24 2012, 1:14pm
                                Whatever floats your boat Elessar Send a private message to Elessar Sep 20 2012, 11:05am
                        I agree with a lot of your points Elenorflower Send a private message to Elenorflower Sep 19 2012, 8:28pm
                        There are no overdone prosthetics... macfalk Send a private message to macfalk Sep 20 2012, 9:12am

 
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.