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Wizards/White Council have Territories?


Sep 7 2012, 11:39pm

Post #1 of 10 (377 views)
Wizards/White Council have Territories? Can't Post

I kinda had this idea as a Kid reading LOTR for the First time.

Elrond is overseer of everything West of the Misty Mountains Eriador and Arnor.
Therefore it was mostly peaceful in the Third Age.
Also he prepared migrating Elves with provisions and Council on their Final Trek to the Grey Havens.

Saruman's territory started with his Capitol at Orthanc going South and
that includes of course Rohan and Gonder north of the White Mountains.
Yet his control of Theodan could only be maintained by his poison pill Grima...
His control of Denethor was keep in tack with the Palantir which also was Denethor's poison pill.

Galaldriel controlled East of the Misty Mountains (Rhovanion) including telepathicaly helping Thranduil. She had no way to Stop Smaug from sacking Erebor since she can't read the mind of a dragon and was caught by surprize?

The two Blue Wizards went East ..we know and tried to give peace to Mordor and Southern Gondor all the way to Haradwaith. Yet were foiled by you know who?

Gandalf&Radagast were wanders by assignment trying to stitch together each territory by messages.
Each territory was roughly defined by Mountain Ranges.

This idea just came back to me recently.
xoxox Bomby


Sep 7 2012, 11:51pm

Post #2 of 10 (206 views)
I think that the elves definitely had their own well defined territories. [In reply to] Can't Post

But I think that Saruman's territorial approach was a little bit different in the way that he came so close to taking residence and a nearly-ruler-like position. Because of limits of space and time, the other wizards were rather localized but not strictly localized. Gandalf clearly was known across all the regions of Middle Earth that I have seen mentioned and everyone has their own name for him seemingly.

The East is a far and wide region and very few details are given about either the regions or the people there. As far as what could have thwarted the blue wizards, it is clear that the nazgul at some point arose and their kingdoms and families, by whatever means of conquest and through powerful dark gifts, took hold of much of the region. I don't think it's necessary to assume it was all taken but it sounds like it was much overrun by dark rulers by the time the events of LOTR take place. It seems likely that the blue wizards would have encountered these rising rulers and gotten caught up into the ensuing dramas and struggles one way or another - but what way that was is not completely explained in anything published for public consumption - although what lies still in unpublished notes and whatnot is something else.


Sep 8 2012, 12:06am

Post #3 of 10 (179 views)
Interesting idea [In reply to] Can't Post

Nothing really specific stated, but the implications of such a division of territory can not be totally denied either.
Plausable, yes, but as stated above more information in tolkiens notes would be of help clarifying this idea.

Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
Vote for Pedro!

Ethel Duath

Sep 8 2012, 12:57am

Post #4 of 10 (175 views)
I always thought in terms of [In reply to] Can't Post

territories as well, even though Radagast's and Gandalf's seemed kind of unclear. When I first started reading the books in my early teens, I sometimes used to try to figure out where their boundaries would be, and what would happen if one encroached on another's. I'm thinking my idea of it came not only from a childhood filled with ideas of territories in the world at large (I grew up during the worst of the Cold War) but just from human nature. We tend as a species to like our boundaries defined, sometimes for protection, sometimes from a desire for power and control, and sometimes just for a sense of clarity as to who belongs where, and who is responsible for what. The concept seems natural. That's why I always thank my neighbor for snow-blowing the whole sidewalk in front of my house, unasked! It's above and beyond because it's not his territory. Smile

But looking at it now in regard to the 5 wizards, I don't think each wizard was necessarily sent to Middle Earth to a specifically assigned region with particular boundaries (although the blue wizards come closest to that), but to more of an assigned mission, and things just naturally fell into place as to where each would operate best.


Sep 8 2012, 3:13am

Post #5 of 10 (172 views)
Mission or [In reply to] Can't Post

perhaps a dormain where there skills would be best suited?

Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
Vote for Pedro!


Sep 8 2012, 2:35pm

Post #6 of 10 (179 views)
Círdan the Shipwright and other members [In reply to] Can't Post

Círdan's territory was centered on the Grey Havens and probably stretched to the Blue Mountains and the Tower Hills.

Glorfindel and the other Eldar on the White Council (excepting Lady Galadriel--Celeborn does not seem to have been a member) all seemed to dwell in Rivendell.

'Thus spake Ioreth, wise-woman of Gondor: The hands of the king are the hands of a healer, and so shall the rightful king be known.' - Gandalf the White

Tol Eressea

Sep 8 2012, 11:16pm

Post #7 of 10 (140 views)
Gandalf never travelled to East [In reply to] Can't Post

while the Ithryn Luin were specially mentioned as having a job to do there. Besides that, I don't think the Wizards had any territory earmarked for them, other than the boundaries they would draw for themselves.

The White Council on the other hand might well have some agreement in things like these. "You keep an eye on that region, I'll look after this."

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


Sep 10 2012, 2:48pm

Post #8 of 10 (105 views)
Thank you [In reply to] Can't Post

you said it better than I could.

I never wanted to imply these were specific borders..just general regions that were vaguely defined for the purposes of helping the Free Peoples
of ME to stay free from the Theat of Mordor.

Also for the longest time I've wondered about what it's like around
The Sea of Rhun? ..or Near Harad...Or of Khand..anyone feel they know
I'd love to read anything about those realms.
The only Hints we get( at least from our movies) is they are sorta kinda
Did JRRT ever write anything about... This?

Ethel Duath

Sep 10 2012, 4:19pm

Post #9 of 10 (99 views)
In a sense, yes to both, I think. But [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the domain was a result of the missions, because the missions were to the various peoples of Middle earth rather than to a specific spot with boundaries. It's revealing that Saruman seemed so uninterested in people. Maybe that's why he seems to have a territory, and there seems to be a definite sense of the lands he has control or influence over, but what peoples/creatures he was responsible for isn't really mentioned, that I remember. By contrast, although Elrond has a definite territory, there is much more focus on the people there (the resident Elves [and one Hobbit], and travellers that come and go) than on the land and the house.


Sep 12 2012, 4:49pm

Post #10 of 10 (108 views)
and you... [In reply to] Can't Post

I mean ol' Tom Bombadil... had his own little realm/territory that, p'raps, the other leaders seemed to inherently know was there! Gandalf and Maggot did, at least.

Great rundown, Bombadil! :D


I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.

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