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Escapist
Gondor
Sep 4 2012, 7:09pm
Post #26 of 247
(1868 views)
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escaping the trolls
finding Rivendell
resolving the WC debate to attack Dol Guldur
escaping the Goblins
escaping Gollum
battle with the Wargs and goblins
And hopefully
developing character personalities
providing drama and connectedness between main and secondary stories
and bankrupting all the merchandizing deals that were counting on the film to end with the barrels (j/k  )
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Escapist
Gondor
Sep 4 2012, 7:17pm
Post #27 of 247
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I agree that the climax is less epic
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than BO5A, Smaug's fall, and Dol Guldur.
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DanielLB
Immortal
Sep 4 2012, 7:25pm
Post #28 of 247
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Oh yes, they do accomplish a lot
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I meant more in terms if their Quest. Ending it just after the Mountains is far too soon. They've only just set off. Plus, the Dwarves opinion changes considerably after Mirkwood - what better way to end An Unexpected Journey?
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Sep 4 2012, 7:34pm
Post #29 of 247
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I doubt we would have seen Lee Pace's Thranduil
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if he's not going to feature in The Hobbit film. That, to me, means Mirkwood is in.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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macfalk
Valinor
Sep 4 2012, 7:36pm
Post #30 of 247
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Also, on one of the official posters where the whole "story" is covered, from The Shire to the barrel-escape - that makes me 99% certain that not only will we see Mirkwood in the first film, but beyond it, we may even spot Laketown.
The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
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Finarfin
The Shire
Sep 4 2012, 7:48pm
Post #31 of 247
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Anything is possible, of course, but I've become of the mindset that the proper break point for the first movie is the Dwarves being captured by the Elves in Mirkwood. The first movie would also have a good deal of Dwarven backstory, including the Gandalf/Thrain storyline, and probably a mini-White Council when the party arrives in Rivendell (I think the "official" council should and will be in the second movie).
This would allow for pretty good pacing, would provide a teaser introduction to the Elves in the first movie, and would provide plenty of time to fully introduce the Elven kingdom at the beginning of Movie Two. Moving the bulk of the events with Thranduil's people to the second movie also ties the Elves more into the politics of the last two movies by establishing them as one of the peoples living at the borders of the Desolation who are affected by the dragon.
Personally, I believe any pre-Mirkwood break simply does not move the story far enough along given the assumption that the second movie ends with the demise of Smaug, Maybe you could break as early as Beorn, but definitely not any earlier, at least in my probably under-informed opinion.
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Thoromir
Rivendell
Sep 4 2012, 7:50pm
Post #32 of 247
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No doubt PJ and co. talked about the idea (of a trilogy) a lot.
So my guess is that they would never show the barrel scene in the scroll if they weren''t absolutely sure they'd use it for film 1 (if you know what I mean..).
That was my initial thought. But this forum confuses me (in a good way though:p)
(This post was edited by Thoromir on Sep 4 2012, 7:51pm)
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Fardragon
Rohan
Sep 4 2012, 7:57pm
Post #33 of 247
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Smaug doesn't appear until film 2. The Necromancer doesn't much feature until film 2. Thus, the Great Goblin is the only actual villain in the first film, even though he dies before the movie is half way through.
Oh, and "reliable unnamed source" is an oxymoron.
A Far Dragon is the best kind...
(This post was edited by Fardragon on Sep 4 2012, 8:00pm)
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dave_lf
Gondor
Sep 4 2012, 8:02pm
Post #34 of 247
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The Warg-riders come from Dol Guldur, which implies that we probably will encounter the Necromancer before the eagle scene, unless the Mountain-goblins keep wargs too.
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There&ThereAgain
Rohan
Sep 4 2012, 8:02pm
Post #35 of 247
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to start comparing each hobbit film to lord of the rings in regard to structure.
I personally could not make 1 to 1 ratio allusions because the two stories are nearly completely different. IMO 
"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien
"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas
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DanielLB
Immortal
Sep 4 2012, 8:22pm
Post #36 of 247
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Not the book structure, no. But the film structure is likely to be very similar /
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Sep 4 2012, 8:22pm
Post #37 of 247
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Con: That would keep Beorn and the Wood-elves completely out of Film 1.
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Pro: The introduction of the company to Beorn would be a great way to remind the Film 2 audience of who is who.
'Thus spake Ioreth, wise-woman of Gondor: The hands of the king are the hands of a healer, and so shall the rightful king be known.' - Gandalf the White
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Escapist
Gondor
Sep 4 2012, 8:23pm
Post #38 of 247
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the offing of the great goblin and his many fellow goblins and wargs gets connected to:
*those goblins not making it to BO5A: a battle which was close enough in its ending that a major leader (Thorin) died alongside others
*those goblins not making it to defend Dol Guldur: a battle that was not likely to include a large number of soldiers alongside the white council
*those goblins and their history are connected to previous wars between dwarves and goblins
If such connections were made - it suddenly feels almost like an inverse Helm's Deep ...
of course such connections wouldn't likely have time to be made if film1 ends in Mirkwood ...
So I guess its a question of depth vs expansion of the movies into non-TH plotlines
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There&ThereAgain
Rohan
Sep 4 2012, 8:28pm
Post #39 of 247
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Why would they want to mirror the original trilogy exactly? Wouldn't that just be diluting the films down to mere cash-ins? 
I think PJ has an opportunity here to play to The Hobbit's strengths. Bilbo and Thorin are very different protagonists who go on very different thematic arcs than Frodo and Aragorn (if we are in the business of comparing).
"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien
"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas
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DanielLB
Immortal
Sep 4 2012, 8:35pm
Post #40 of 247
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And who's going to notice a similar structure, apart from us?
The structure of both An Unexpected Journey and The Fellowship of the Ring up until the Misty Mountains are very similar - whether we like it or not. Even after the Misty Mountains, the structure is still similar.
The Dwarves stop at Beorn's, The Fellowship stop at Lothlorien
The Dwarves travel to Mirkwood, The Fellowship travel along the Anduin
By no means are they the same, but the structure is inherently similar. I'm not saying it should be replicated, it already has been - Tolkien wrote it that way.
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rings7
Rohan
Sep 4 2012, 8:48pm
Post #41 of 247
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it doesn't sound exciting enough for an ending. I wanted Mirkwood and the barrels scene in movie 1.
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea
Sep 4 2012, 8:49pm
Post #42 of 247
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A new plot organisation for three films
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Bilbo telling Frodo ALL OF IT
Who Thorin was, so to speak, themovie won´t start with The Shire, or even a mere prologue, but a transition of timeframes that lead Thorin meet Ganfalf, like in the Quest for Erebor, and then Bilbo enters in the set.
There is A LOT of dwarven history to be shown, a lot...
Second film: Beorn and Mirkwood for Bilbo and the party, mainly, and the battle of Dol Guldur, ending here, and with the arrival to Esgaroth. So a lot more of withe council, maybe backstory of Necromancer, wars in the north etc...
Third film: Arrival to the lonely mountain, and Smaug´s fate plus battle of five armies.
That would left film 1 and 3 closer to the book, being third film to be the most book purist because all the Necromancer stuff and Dwarf backstory should have done at this point, so it could be just the book as it follows
It makes sense to me...
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rings7
Rohan
Sep 4 2012, 8:51pm
Post #43 of 247
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we haven't seen Bard. At least not officially. I think we'll have more scoop on this in the next trailer. I hope.
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There&ThereAgain
Rohan
Sep 4 2012, 8:51pm
Post #44 of 247
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about the misty mountains part of the adventure. I guess I am finally worrying about something related to the making of this film. I think the riddles in the dark chapter might add some flavor in there so that it doesn't feel like we are merely retreading the same ground. But yes, I hadn't thought about that. Time to reread The Hobbit again! 
"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien
"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas
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TomthePilgrim
Rohan
Sep 4 2012, 8:52pm
Post #45 of 247
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I don't believe the warg riders are from Dol Guldur . . .
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. . . certainly not all of them.
The Great Goblin is killed and the party escapes. Bilbo has his side adventure, riddles, ring and he joins them. They move out of the hills and are chased by the goblins of Goblin Town riding on the wild weolf allies.
These 'Warg Riders' are not from Dol Guldur . . .
The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began
Now far ahead the Road has gone
And I must follow, if I can
"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea
Sep 4 2012, 8:53pm
Post #47 of 247
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When that poster came out I think no third film possibility was on the horizont, maybe things have changed.
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Escapist
Gondor
Sep 4 2012, 8:57pm
Post #48 of 247
(1616 views)
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I think The Hobbit films should go for the academy award
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for the largest number of important named characters introduced in a single movie.
Go!
 
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TomthePilgrim
Rohan
Sep 4 2012, 8:58pm
Post #49 of 247
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I've been saying that for months . . .
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. . . and months and months . . . but few of our brother and sister TORnlings are agreeable on the topic.
I think the spider fight is a perfect close . . . although I expect the rest of the dwarves will also be captured before the film ends . . .
. . . and I don't think it hurts that there is a similarity with the end of FOTR (the dwarves captured and Bilbo following / Merry and Pip captured and Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas following). 
The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began
Now far ahead the Road has gone
And I must follow, if I can
"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"
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TomthePilgrim
Rohan
Sep 4 2012, 9:02pm
Post #50 of 247
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. . . gotta see Beorn!
I can't see film one ending before the party enters Mirkwood . . . and I still believe it will end after the spider fight and before the Realm of Thranduil. 
The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began
Now far ahead the Road has gone
And I must follow, if I can
"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"
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