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DanielLB
Elvenhome
Sep 4 2012, 6:05pm
Post #26 of 58
(1044 views)
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To save having 4 of my threads on one page, I'll put this here
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You can get a free Hobbit posted with this month's Total film magazine.
This deserves to be seen, but not another thread! 
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mandel
Ossiriand
Sep 4 2012, 6:06pm
Post #27 of 58
(1002 views)
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I think the materials are in Tolkien for getting a better view of Gandalf's character development. My take is that Tolkien wanted to make Gandalf the bedrock early in LOTR, with Aragorn taking up some of the slack later on - in brief moments of hesitation and doubt from Gandalf (e.g. The Last Debate), Aragorn takes up the mantle as leader and moves things forward. (This is one of the things I thought PJ got absolutely perfect in his films).
At the beginning of TH, we're seeing a Gandalf who hasn't yet had to face the immediate prospect of his great task in Middle-Earth - the defeat of Sauron. He has the great wisdom to see in Hobbits much more than anyone else can. But he's still quite a bit impatient with Bilbo, as with the Dwarves. He still has the sense of superiority of a Maiar sent to dwell among mortals. But by the time of LOTR, he has the wisdom to know that Hobbits have a kind of strength even he lacks.
And, I'm guessing this change of heart happens during the course of events in TH. Bilbo doesn't just prove himself to be courageous, but almost completely unselfish. His self-centered thoughts always seem to be quite simple: he doesn't want treasure, or political power, or even great honor (though he takes pleasure in the dwarves' admiration); instead, he just wants the warmth of Bag End, a meal and pipe by the fire. I'd like to see Gandalf come to this realization in TH films, along with the realization of his great task...
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Faenoriel
Dor-Lomin
Sep 4 2012, 6:06pm
Post #28 of 58
(1055 views)
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Thank you, all of that was very interesting (and promising!)
One question: what does Legolas and Thranduil sparring actually mean? Are they play fighting?
But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied
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DanielLB
Elvenhome
Sep 4 2012, 6:10pm
Post #29 of 58
(997 views)
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I thought spar meant "to practice fighting"? /
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FlyingSerkis
Ossiriand
Sep 4 2012, 6:12pm
Post #30 of 58
(978 views)
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I'd love to see that character development in the films
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Very interesting look into Gandalf's thoughts and character that I hadn't really considered before. 
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Faenoriel
Dor-Lomin
Sep 4 2012, 6:19pm
Post #31 of 58
(1024 views)
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But I've learned to not to trust my assumptions when communicating in a foreign language... bad things may ensue! 
But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied
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dave_lf
Mithlond
Sep 4 2012, 6:33pm
Post #32 of 58
(1032 views)
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That is the literal meaning, but I (strongly) suspect they are talking about verbal sparring here. Based on other comments that have been made, the two will be at odds over the elves' role in the battle.
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DanielLB
Elvenhome
Sep 4 2012, 6:35pm
Post #33 of 58
(994 views)
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I'm English and don't know what it entirely means 
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Faenoriel
Dor-Lomin
Sep 4 2012, 6:48pm
Post #34 of 58
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I hope they don't change Thranduil's characterization
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If they make Thranduil more antagonistic than he already is by removing his two truly honorable moments (helping the Men of Lake Town and being opposed to the idea of waging a war over gold) just to let Legolas argue against him and steal the sympathy points for himself..... I'll... I'll... I don't even know what I'll do. It'll be all Denethor again. A character supposed to be complicated and antiheroic turned into a complete douche because apparently the audience can't get the hint to feel sympathy for his son otherwise. 
But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied
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mandel
Ossiriand
Sep 4 2012, 6:59pm
Post #35 of 58
(956 views)
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Well, it's possible to strike a balance here: maybe Thranduil's initial reactions are hostile (as they are in the book), and Legolas is the one who softens his heart a bit...
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DarkJackal
Nargothrond
Sep 4 2012, 7:27pm
Post #36 of 58
(909 views)
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Alright, I followed the link, but I can't seem to find the free Hobbit that you promised! Not fair, I want my own little quest monkey!
Edit: Oh I see, a free Hobbit poster, not an actual hobbit posted in the mail...
(This post was edited by DarkJackal on Sep 4 2012, 7:29pm)
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DanielLB
Elvenhome
Sep 4 2012, 7:29pm
Post #37 of 58
(881 views)
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Haha! A free Hobbit would be a lot better than a poster wouldn't it!
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Blasted typo!
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Fardragon
Nargothrond
Sep 4 2012, 7:42pm
Post #38 of 58
(901 views)
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I think the comparable character
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Is Faramir. Make him initially hostile enough to be a real threat, but have him evolve into an ally.
A Far Dragon is the best kind...
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TomthePilgrim
Nargothrond
Sep 4 2012, 9:10pm
Post #39 of 58
(812 views)
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. . . Olet Suomen.
Glad I checked the translator . . . Olet Suomen Olet Suomen Olet Suomen Olet Suomen
The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began
Now far ahead the Road has gone
And I must follow, if I can
"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"
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TomthePilgrim
Nargothrond
Sep 4 2012, 9:16pm
Post #40 of 58
(813 views)
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What was that link supposed to be . . .
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. . . 'cause all I got was stuff on Looper . . . even checking out all 10 article teasers showed nothing of the Hobbit. 
The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began
Now far ahead the Road has gone
And I must follow, if I can
"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"
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DanielLB
Elvenhome
Sep 4 2012, 9:20pm
Post #41 of 58
(816 views)
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Should have made it clearer - it's in the text:
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TomthePilgrim
Nargothrond
Sep 4 2012, 9:25pm
Post #42 of 58
(795 views)
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. . . well, I was lookin' at the pictures, not readin' all them pesky words . . .
Sorry. 
The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began
Now far ahead the Road has gone
And I must follow, if I can
"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"
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Faenoriel
Dor-Lomin
Sep 4 2012, 10:22pm
Post #43 of 58
(769 views)
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But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied
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TomthePilgrim
Nargothrond
Sep 4 2012, 11:18pm
Post #45 of 58
(728 views)
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. . . American, ancestors from Ireland and Denmark.
I have a englanti-soumi dictionary. At one point, after finding out that Prof. Tolkien had read the Kalevala, I tried to read a finnish copy using the dictionary . . . and fail utterly.
I now own the Oxford World's Classics version . . . in English!
The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began
Now far ahead the Road has gone
And I must follow, if I can
"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Doriath
Sep 5 2012, 12:12am
Post #47 of 58
(696 views)
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But it doesn't seem consistent to me with the filmmakers MO for them to do this. They are all about adding additional character arcs, not taking them away!
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
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Shelob'sAppetite
Doriath
Sep 5 2012, 12:24am
Post #48 of 58
(708 views)
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Though I wonder if PJ and company understand that part of Bilbo's growth involves a growing appreciation for the more poetic aspects of existence.
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Doriath
Sep 5 2012, 2:04am
Post #49 of 58
(700 views)
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It's explicitly stated - no reading in required
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I know that I give the filmmakers more credit than you do (despite my own more than quibbles) but I think they can pick up on something that is explicitly stated in the text.
Coming to a rise he could see his own Hill in the distance, and he stopped suddenly and said:
Roads go ever ever on,
Over rock and under tree,
By caves where never sun has shone,
By streams that never find the sea;
Over snow by winter sown,
And through the merry flowers of June,
Over grass and over stone,
And under mountains in the moon.
Roads go ever ever on
Under cloud and under star,
Yet feet that wandering have gone
Turn at last to home afar.
Eyes that fire and sword have seen
And horror in the halls of stone
Look at last on meadows green
And trees and hills they long have known.
Gandalf looked at him. "My dear Bilbo!" he said. "Something is the matter with you! You are not the hobbit that you were."
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
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Shelob'sAppetite
Doriath
Sep 5 2012, 4:15am
Post #50 of 58
(666 views)
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And they include the "poetry reading" on his journey home.
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