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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Jackson comments on Del Toro's vision of The Hobbit
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grammaboodawg
Immortal


Aug 26 2012, 6:19pm

Post #151 of 216 (3938 views)
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Just as Peter turned GDT loose [In reply to] Can't Post

to make these films his own, it makes perfect sense that he'd follow the same logic for himself... for which I'm deeply grateful. When Peter chose GdT to spearhead The Hobbit, I embraced Jackson's choice and judgement... but I will honestly say I'm so delighted that Peter's here and making them his own.


sample

I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.




TORn's Observations Lists
Unused Scenes



Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 26 2012, 6:23pm

Post #152 of 216 (3889 views)
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bottom line is [In reply to] Can't Post

he still abandoned it. I knew why he did and he must have agreed with this person since he did abandon a total rewrite.


droidsocket
Lorien

Aug 26 2012, 6:58pm

Post #153 of 216 (3908 views)
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I am sad that he did abandon it [In reply to] Can't Post

And I am sad that said "friend" discouraged Tolkien. With any mythology you can have different interpretations. And I would have loved to read a Lotr style version of the hobbit. Not as a replacement but as a story that can coexist.

This is sometimes why I don't understand how people can get so angry with Pj version. It's his retelling of a mythology. It's the same reason I don't understand Christopher Tolkiens hatred. If Tolkien was truly seeking a mythology for the English to call their own and if he achieved this goal then he aspired to something much greater then being just the author of a classic set of novels. And in some ways the success and love for these stories by its reader and followers has transcended Tolkiens ownership. This mythology belongs to everyone. And anyone that wants to retell it no matter how accurate has the freedom.
Just my two cents.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 26 2012, 7:56pm

Post #154 of 216 (3883 views)
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People are free to retell it [In reply to] Can't Post

And other people, like CT, are free to criticize the nature of the retelling!

I just cannot understand why people believe criticism of the films, from either CT or anyone else, somehow restricts the freedom of those doing the adaptation, whether it is PJ, or someone else in the future.


droidsocket
Lorien

Aug 26 2012, 8:00pm

Post #155 of 216 (3865 views)
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It's not the... [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't like what he did attitude. It's the "how dare you" attitude that I think is unfair. :)


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 26 2012, 8:04pm

Post #156 of 216 (3868 views)
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He never displayed that attitude [In reply to] Can't Post

In one of his only public comments on the film, he simply stated that the story was turned into an action film for young adults. Doesn't sound like "how dare you!" to me.


droidsocket
Lorien

Aug 26 2012, 8:07pm

Post #157 of 216 (3853 views)
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Ok [In reply to] Can't Post

There are many Tolkien fans on this site as well as other that very much exhibit this kind attitude.


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Aug 26 2012, 8:19pm

Post #158 of 216 (3868 views)
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Clarification [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
...Christopher Tolkiens hatred


Keep in mind a couple of things. First it's the Estate. Though Christopher would naturally have a heavy influence, there's a difference when more than one person and attorneys are involved with other complex interests within the Estate, such as charities, trusts, funds and so forth. Second, and most important, I think it's likely that you are using the word "hate" from the title of the other thread saying "Tolkien Estate HATES these movies?" Please don't attribute our words to Christopher himself because it lessens the credibility of our point of view. If you are going to attribute such a strong word to Christopher, you should feel compelled to source the quote.

That said, I too wish the Estate would relax and allow productions of such things as the Silmarillion and more. I don't have a very good attitude toward the Estate either simply because of that. But I would try to not misrepresent them.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 26 2012, 8:28pm

Post #159 of 216 (3832 views)
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Oh, sure [In reply to] Can't Post

But we should be very wary not to conflate self-styled "guardians of Tolkien" with Christopher Tolkien himself. He, for one, would not approve!

Just for the record, my own attitude is simply; I don't quite like PJ's interpretation, in terms of its merit as a film.

The "how dare they" attitude is not one I subscribe to, though of course, people have every right to feel that way.


droidsocket
Lorien

Aug 26 2012, 8:29pm

Post #160 of 216 (3843 views)
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I don't [In reply to] Can't Post

Claim to attribute anything! My opinion of Christopher is my own thank you very much.


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Aug 26 2012, 8:39pm

Post #161 of 216 (3855 views)
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Attribution [In reply to] Can't Post

"Christopher Tolkiens hatred" does not attribute to Christopher that he has said he "hates" PJ's versions?

And if you may have your own opinion of him, he may not of PJ's versions without complaint from any of us?

Well, okay then.


Owain
Tol Eressea


Aug 26 2012, 8:41pm

Post #162 of 216 (3846 views)
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Agreed.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Aug 26 2012, 8:44pm

Post #163 of 216 (3799 views)
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although [In reply to] Can't Post

CT has made lots of $$$$$ due to PJ's LOTR's films and will no doubt make lots more $$$$ with these new Hobbit films...


From the bottom of the Long-Lake a dragon shall be possessed...green lights glowing out of the deep waters shall be seen where the dragon fell...reanimated shall be Smaug that was killed...and the Dark Lord will fly over Middle-Earth unopposed...raining fire down upon his enemies...


droidsocket
Lorien

Aug 26 2012, 8:44pm

Post #164 of 216 (3789 views)
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Is this directed at me? [In reply to] Can't Post

Because I don't follow what you are saying?


Black Breathalizer
Rohan


Aug 26 2012, 8:47pm

Post #165 of 216 (3807 views)
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You don't have to be a trained detective... [In reply to] Can't Post

...to figure out what Christopher Tolkien thinks of Peter Jackson's LOTR films.


droidsocket
Lorien

Aug 26 2012, 8:49pm

Post #166 of 216 (3824 views)
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I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

And I am no detective.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Aug 26 2012, 9:36pm

Post #167 of 216 (3796 views)
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How long have those people been there? [In reply to] Can't Post

That really is the relevant question, if things like "immigration" and indigenous population are to be discussed. They are the indigenous population, and are rather darker than the wave of immigrants who began poplating their land after the 17th century.

That said, clarification noted. I won't discuss the matter any further, as it is too delicate a topic for the thread, and veers off from the main topic besides.

In Reply To
of Polynesian origin. Aborigines are indigenous to Australia.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

(This post was edited by AinurOlorin on Aug 26 2012, 9:42pm)


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 26 2012, 9:56pm

Post #168 of 216 (3776 views)
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Right [In reply to] Can't Post

If you look at the evidence, he says that the films turned the story into an action movie for young adults. He doesn't like that, I suspect.

But that is different than 'hate' and 'how dare you, PJ!'


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 26 2012, 10:00pm

Post #169 of 216 (3741 views)
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Right [In reply to] Can't Post

And PJ has made a whole lot of money because of Tolkien's books!

What's your point? CT is not primarily concerned about money. He is primarily concerned with his father's legacy, and he seems to feel that PJ's films do not do that legacy justice.

Is it okay for him to hold that opinion?


lyndomiel
Rivendell

Aug 26 2012, 10:04pm

Post #170 of 216 (3776 views)
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Just FYI - Googled it [In reply to] Can't Post

1280 - archaelogical evidence seems to indicate that they were the first peoples to populate New Zealand and were alone until the European settlers arrived in the 1700s.


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Aug 26 2012, 10:13pm

Post #171 of 216 (3776 views)
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absolutely [In reply to] Can't Post

 


From the bottom of the Long-Lake a dragon shall be possessed...green lights glowing out of the deep waters shall be seen where the dragon fell...reanimated shall be Smaug that was killed...and the Dark Lord will fly over Middle-Earth unopposed...raining fire down upon his enemies...


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 26 2012, 10:16pm

Post #172 of 216 (3779 views)
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Great! [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Aug 27 2012, 1:38am

Post #173 of 216 (3822 views)
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I often wonder where people find unidirectional magnifying glasses [In reply to] Can't Post

It seems it's fine to invent scenarios that reflect poorly on GDT, but drop oneor two that feature Sir Peter in a bad light and all hell breaks loose.

Wink

(This post was edited by SirDennisC on 0 secs ago)

(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Aug 27 2012, 1:39am)


Black Breathalizer
Rohan


Aug 27 2012, 2:38am

Post #174 of 216 (3833 views)
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... [In reply to] Can't Post

SirDennisC wrote: It seems it's fine to invent scenarios that reflect poorly on GDT, but drop one or two that feature Sir Peter in a bad light and all hell breaks loose.

First off, take responsibility for your own posts without hiding behind others. Simply apologize for your xenophobic New Zealand comment and be done with it. Saying it was an 'overreaction' to my post is downright silly.

Unlike your own speculative post, mine was a simple observation. I'd like to know know what was so 'evil' 'absurd' and 'unkind', and 'baseless' about THIS post of mine.
Quote
Regarding GDT, I suspect that there were increasing concerns with his vision for The Hobbit than ran throughout the New Zealand production. Take a production incredibly loyal to PJ and bring in an 'outsider' who has a reputation for bringing his own unique vision to a project and you have a recipe for friction. I strongly suspect the failure for the production to get a "green light" had more to do with signals to the studios from the Jackson camp of their growing reservations about GDT than it did with MGM's problems. The delay became a convenient, face-saving way for a change of Director to be made.

I said nothing that 'reflected poorly' on GDT. Any director of GDT's pedigree and status is going to have a strong vision. How in the world did that observation reflect poorly on GDT?

I noted that GDT was working with a large, New Zealand-based production team that was loyal to Peter Jackson.
If what I said reflected poorly on anybody, it was on Jackson and his production team.


rings7
Rohan


Aug 27 2012, 4:51am

Post #175 of 216 (3739 views)
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Not helping in making a point here [In reply to] Can't Post

but maybe it's because CT should show a little bit of gratitude instead of just complaining of how the movies don't do a legacy justice. It's his opinion and yes, he's entitled to it, just like anyone. There are people who love the movies, and others who don't.

And what i mean by gratitude i don't mean the money, but there are so many people who actually got to know Tolkien with these movies. More and more people started reading Tolkien after the trilogy came out. The movies may not do justice to JRR Tolkien's legacy, but it surely got more and more people to read the books.

Should he send a thank you note to PJ? No. But he shouldn't be so negative about the fact that these movies came out in the first place.

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