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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Jackson comments on Del Toro's vision of The Hobbit
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geordie
Tol Eressea

Aug 25 2012, 3:20pm

Post #76 of 216 (3891 views)
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I don't know HBII [In reply to] Can't Post

- what's this about Prince Nuada?
.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Aug 25 2012, 3:36pm

Post #77 of 216 (3938 views)
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He is the film's villain [In reply to] Can't Post


Played by Luke Goss.


geordie
Tol Eressea

Aug 25 2012, 3:53pm

Post #78 of 216 (3886 views)
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Ah, thanks for that - [In reply to] Can't Post

- I hadn't twigged that HBII is 'Hell Boy 2' - I haven't seen any of those movies.

It's intriguing that the villain is called 'Nuada' - now there's a name with a Tolkien connection - (though not exclusively of course). Back in '32, Wheeler published his report on an archaeological dig at Lydney Park in Gloucestershire. He asked JRR to write a piece on the name 'Nodens' which appeared in a couple of Roman inscriptions on the site. Tolkien opined that 'Nodens' is the same as Nuada argat-lam; Nuada of the Silver Hand, king of the Tuatha de Danaan, 'who had possession of Ireland before the Milesians'. Nuada lost a hand in battle with the firbolg, and the Tuatha had made him one of silver, 'with full movement'.

Sounds very Tolkienian to me.

Smile


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Aug 25 2012, 4:22pm

Post #79 of 216 (3836 views)
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That's not all [In reply to] Can't Post

The Hellboy films don't shy away from their comic-book roots, hence the saturated colours and over-the-top designs, but they're still firmly entrenched in their own literary heritage. Hellboy I draws mainly from the works of HP Lovecraft, while Hellboy II is based more in Celtic mythology.

For example, there's a trace of the original 'Silver Hand' meaning in the silver lance Sir Dennis mentioned above. If you saw the picture of King Balor that was posted earlier, you may have noticed the ring in the centre of his forehead a reference to the third eye of the mythological figure of the same name. He also happens to have a literal silver hand, but it's so understated that I only just noticed it now YouTube clip for anyone interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4liPmQEPEU


Black Breathalizer
Rohan


Aug 25 2012, 4:24pm

Post #80 of 216 (3894 views)
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Jackson's vision [In reply to] Can't Post

I am thrilled to have three more films that feature Jackson's vision of Middle Earth. Those who are frustrated by PJ's "monopoly" on the Tolkien franchise needn't worry. I have no doubt that there will be future film versions of The Hobbit and LOTR down the road.

I would like to point out that while the vision of Middle Earth is Peter Jackson's, his vision was originally influenced by the work of Alan Lee and John Howe. So while they work for him and no doubt give him exactly what he wants, their previous work laid the foundation for the LOTR's designs. For example, I recall Peter saying in the "making of" videos that he asked Alan to give him the rest of Orthanc and John to give him the rest of Bag End.

Regarding GDT, I suspect that there were increasing concerns with his vision for The Hobbit than ran throughout the New Zealand production. Take a production incredibly loyal to PJ and bring in an 'outsider' who has a reputation for bringing his own unique vision to a project and you have a recipe for friction. I strongly suspect the failure for the production to get a "green light" had more to do with signals to the studios from the Jackson camp of their growing reservations about GDT than it did with MGM's problems. The delay became a convenient, face-saving way for a change of Director to be made.


rings7
Rohan


Aug 25 2012, 6:05pm

Post #81 of 216 (3848 views)
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I wouldn't consider this a monopoly by PJ and Co [In reply to] Can't Post

GDT left, not kicked out, and it was a while until PJ announced that he was gonna take over. He didn't announced it the following day of Del Toro's departure. So to me, it wasn't a piece of cake decision for PJ to make. There were other directors' names mentioned as contenders until PJ finally said he would take over. So, i can't consider this "monopolized" by PJ. So much art has been made by other artists based on Tolkien's books as well.


rings7
Rohan


Aug 25 2012, 6:08pm

Post #82 of 216 (3863 views)
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Coulda shoulda woulda [In reply to] Can't Post

this thread is just beating a dead horse. We've had so much of this comments and conversations before. I was one of the devastated fans when GDT left, but i moved on and this will not be GDT movie.


macfalk
Valinor


Aug 25 2012, 6:23pm

Post #83 of 216 (3769 views)
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Exactly, GDT's departure was his own decision. [In reply to] Can't Post

Thus, the "monopoly" conspiracy theory can be placed in the trash can.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Aug 25 2012, 6:59pm

Post #84 of 216 (3749 views)
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It's not a conspiracy theory so much as an observation [In reply to] Can't Post

Two years from now, we'll have a grant total of six live-action Tolkien adaptations, all written by Peter Jackson, produced by Peter Jackson and directed by Peter Jackson. He has acknowledged that the films are in no way definitive, being simply his own personal take on the source material. I have nothing to say regarding the studio politics that led to this situation, but artistically speaking, I would find it much more interesting if we were able to see Tolkien's world filtered through the sensibilities of more than one man. Middle-earth is bigger than that.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 25 2012, 7:00pm

Post #85 of 216 (3802 views)
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Some of GdT's 'Hobbit' designs surfaced in an earlier interview [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I would have enjoyed seeing the different take GDT had . . . especially as the Hobbit is written in such a different style.



Shortly after leaving The Hobbit, del Toro did an extensive interview for the New Yorker (I think). Some of his Hobbit designs appeared in the interview; he also described his concept for Smaug (specifically, his hatchet-like flight profile).

"Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house." - Aragorn


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 25 2012, 7:02pm

Post #86 of 216 (3790 views)
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I think he had simply not read the Hobbit [In reply to] Can't Post

Clearly, by describing "the Hobbit" as sword and sorcery, he had simply not read the book, as it is nothing like that. It is about humility and pride, and other very deep and human themes. My sense is that when GDT visited the book again (or for the first time), and plumbed it for meaning, he became entranced and fully aware of its worth.

It's not quite fair to describe an evolution in opinion as an "about face." I didn't like certain things when I was younger, that I now love. Like peas.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Aug 25 2012, 7:06pm

Post #87 of 216 (3759 views)
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Those were all preliminary [In reply to] Can't Post

and just sketches. None of the completed designs were shown or discussed.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



geordie
Tol Eressea

Aug 25 2012, 7:08pm

Post #88 of 216 (3758 views)
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I eat my peas with honey - [In reply to] Can't Post

- I've done it all my life.
It makes the peas taste funny, but -
It keeps them on the knife!

Tongue


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 25 2012, 7:10pm

Post #89 of 216 (3783 views)
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GdT's preliminary designs [In reply to] Can't Post

Nonetheless, the designs (such as the Troll 'ball-armor") provided an interesting insight into del Toro's approach to the project.

"Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house." - Aragorn


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 25 2012, 7:12pm

Post #90 of 216 (3738 views)
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I suggested this possible scenario a while back [In reply to] Can't Post

And for some reason or another, was lambasted for it...

Seems like a very reasonable possibility. GDT even hinted at such discomfort from the production team in the New Yorker interview, though his comment was very vague.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 25 2012, 7:14pm

Post #91 of 216 (3713 views)
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Nooneever suggested a conspiracy [In reply to] Can't Post

The rapidity with which comments get twisted here is breathtaking. Someone should do a sociological study of this phenomenon.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 25 2012, 7:16pm

Post #92 of 216 (3717 views)
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But how [In reply to] Can't Post

Were the troll balls much different than Uruk pods or spider-goblins in Moria?


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 25 2012, 7:20pm

Post #93 of 216 (3739 views)
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They weren't that different, I suppose.... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Were the troll balls much different than Uruk pods or spider-goblins in Moria?



It's not like I was being particularly critical of the 'Troll-balls" (although I think I did post negatively about them when the original interview was being discussed). If I remember right, the general consensus was that those Trolls were probably intended to be part of the Necromancer's forces, not William, Bert or Tom.

"Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house." - Aragorn


macfalk
Valinor


Aug 25 2012, 7:28pm

Post #94 of 216 (3721 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, all 6 movies are being made, produced and written by Peter Jackson. Correct. But it could have just been 3 - Guillermo del Toro chose not to stay as director, it was his decision, and his only - so he said. I just don't see how it's a monopoly. Peter Jackson jumped in and saved a sinking ship (sinking as in - no captain steering the ship. The project was director-less for many months during 2010) And for that, he deserves credit.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.

(This post was edited by macfalk on Aug 25 2012, 7:28pm)


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Aug 25 2012, 7:32pm

Post #95 of 216 (3695 views)
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When it comes to design, the guy can be counted on to go deep. [In reply to] Can't Post

It is much, much more than simply having an eye for what looks "cool."

And I hope people understand that I am not suggesting that Sir Peter and his design team don't build symbolism into their designs... when this topic makes its appearance, for me, it is never a case of "if you're not with us you're against us." I was just looking forward to something that we will not get now. But based on the strength of LOTR, I am also looking forward to what we will get.

(This post was edited by SirDennisC on 0 secs ago)


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 25 2012, 7:36pm

Post #96 of 216 (3732 views)
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You are assuming that "monopoly" [In reply to] Can't Post

Implies a "forced monopoly."

That's not what I said. I used the term with its simplest definition in mind - that of exclusivity. All I meant is that with Peter Jackson helming the live-action films of the Lord of the Rings, and the Hobbit, the only material studios hold rights to, Peter Jackson's vision has effectively been exclusive in the live-action filmic interpretation of Tolkien.

Other directors can be brought on board for a reboot, etc, and I hope that happens. But I would have liked to see a new vision sooner rather than later.

After all, I'm not getting any younger, and I still haven't seen the Middle Earth I know on screen! Smile


macfalk
Valinor


Aug 25 2012, 7:37pm

Post #97 of 216 (3682 views)
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I am not assuming anything - I was responding to Flagg // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


macfalk
Valinor


Aug 25 2012, 7:42pm

Post #98 of 216 (3669 views)
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But... [In reply to] Can't Post

isn't it a good thing though, in the end, that we have the same director for LOTR and The Hobbit? If not, there would arguably have been continuity errors. Not some small ones, but big continuity errors. For me at least, that would ruin the experience. I want to see a whole, complete Hobbit & LOTR film-series with the same people behind the camera. Just look at Harry Potter - 4 different directors for eight movies, and 4 different composers. And look what happened - while the films can hold their own as movies, they just don't work at all when viewed in order. They are just so vastly different from each other (which is not necessarily bad, but when sets, locations and even actors are changed each movie, frankly, its distracting beyond words).



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Aug 25 2012, 7:49pm

Post #99 of 216 (3700 views)
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good points [In reply to] Can't Post

although i have heard that PJ has said that he intends these new films to be viewed after LOTR's, and if the opening of the last trailer is any indication...with older Bilbo asking Frodo (established character viewers have seen) to listen to his adventures.


From the bottom of the Long-Lake a dragon shall be possessed...green lights glowing out of the deep waters shall be seen where the dragon fell...reanimated shall be Smaug that was killed...and the Dark Lord will fly over Middle-Earth unopposed...raining fire down upon his enemies...


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 25 2012, 7:52pm

Post #100 of 216 (3692 views)
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I don't care about continuity [In reply to] Can't Post

...between the films, so no, I don't see it as a good thing.

I wanted to see another director adapt the Hobbit book, not the same director adapt the book to fit his previous films.

But this is all very simple. If you absolutely adored PJ's LOTR, than you are likely to be happy about him directing again. If you thought they were general subpar films, then you might not be happy about him directing again.

Simple, really. Smile

However, I am optimistic that three films will allow Jackson to do a better job of creating a believable and immersive story.


(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Aug 25 2012, 7:53pm)

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