|
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net? Consider a donation!
|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Felagund
Rivendell
Aug 20 2012, 10:47pm
Views: 1071
Shortcut
|
|
did Sauron know there were other Maiar in Middle-earth (and did he care)?
|
Can't Post
|
|
During his post-Morgoth Dark Lord 'career', Sauron acted like he was the only angelic being in Middle-earth. This, in my view, captures one of Sauron's key weaknesses - that there actually were other Maiar at work in Middle-earth made it tough for him but that he seems not to have countenanced that this could possibly happen massively compounded the dangers he faced.
The assumption that he was alone probably helped feed Sauron's megalomaniac desire to dominate the world, and quickly killed off his brief intent to benignly help Middle-earth to recover from the ravages of the War of Wrath. Part of this also stems from a deluded (as it turned out) belief that the Valar had abandoned Middle-earth. Perhaps Sauron could be forgiven for thinking the latter, at least at first. When Sauron emerged from hiding c. 500 years into the Second Age, Middle-earth was "for the most part savage and desolate, save only where the people of Beleriand came" (The Sil). There was also no attempt by Valinor to 'bring him in' - apparently running off from Eönwë (not the brightest custodian!) at the end of the First Age was all it took to avoid judgment. Ilúvatar's intervention to destroy Númenor was a stark message that Sauron wasn't completely free to lord it over the Children of Ilúvatar, but that's still not the same as Valar and Maiar wandering around Middle-earth.
My main question is did Sauron know (or care) that other Maiar actually were in Middle-earth, some of them affecting events? Also, could he have known? There were the Five Wizards / Istari in the Third Age - and according toTolkien's final writings, the Blue Wizards may have turned up even earlier, at the same time as Glorfindel, c. 1600 of the Second Age. A Balrog was hanging about in Moria, awake and angry from 1980 of the Third Age and then of course there's old Tom Bombadil, whatever he was.
All of these beings were either deliberately in hiding or self-confined (the Balrog), divorced from the world (Tom Bombadil) or in disguise (the Istari). But Sauron does encounter Saruman, through a palantír. Presumably there is some test of wills at ths point - Saruman had more than enough pride to put up a fight or at least try to escape ensnarement. Sauron also encounters Gandalf in a struggle of wills at Amon Hen, when Frodo nearly gives the game away by wearing the One Ring for too long. Sauron, in his incarnation as Mairon back in Valinor, would presumably have known both Curumo and Olórin - indeed Sauron and Curumo both served Aulë the Smith and Olórin tells Manwë that he fears Sauron. Why, when he's able to dominate Saruman, does he not recognise his old smithy mate, or even just demand to know his true identity? As for Gandalf, the parley with the Mouth of Sauron reveals that Sauron knew Gandalf's name and the fact that he'd been at work for a long time building up resistance to Mordor. Not the same as knowing Gandalf's true identity but cause for suspicion, surely?
I'm not sure where all of this leaves us, apart from the tentative conclusion that Sauron didn't care much for details and seems to have been utterly convinced that none could, or would, oppose him in the long run for mastery of Middle-earth.
Welcome to the Mordorfone network, where we put the 'hai' back into Uruk
|
|
|
|
Subject
|
User
|
Time
|
did Sauron know there were other Maiar in Middle-earth (and did he care)?
|
Felagund
|
Aug 20 2012, 10:47pm
|
In my view Sauron knew about everything
|
Plurmo
|
Aug 21 2012, 1:50am
|
|
he knew alright
|
PhantomS
|
Aug 21 2012, 10:49am
|
|
Would the balrog have obeyed Sauron's orders?
|
Noel Q. von Schneiffel
|
Aug 21 2012, 2:16pm
|
|
Sauron and Balrogs - henchman pecking order
|
Felagund
|
Aug 21 2012, 3:00pm
|
|
Based on a statement that I read and agreed with a while ago,
|
Radagast-Aiwendil
|
Aug 21 2012, 5:40pm
|
|
Aule, Sauron and Saruman
|
Noel Q. von Schneiffel
|
Aug 21 2012, 8:15pm
|
|
Thanks for the reply Noel!
|
Radagast-Aiwendil
|
Aug 21 2012, 8:18pm
|
|
Tolkien mistrusted technology, but trusted art
|
squire
|
Aug 22 2012, 1:10am
|
|
Perhaps he tried
|
Noel Q. von Schneiffel
|
Aug 22 2012, 5:53pm
|
|
the lure of Melkor: Sauron, Saruman & Ossë
|
Felagund
|
Aug 22 2012, 7:08pm
|
|
Both aspects of Melkor's evil seem to boil down to ego
|
squire
|
Aug 22 2012, 7:48pm
|
|
Sauron and the Maiar
|
sam90
|
Aug 24 2012, 11:37pm
|
|
Sauron and the Istari
|
Felagund
|
Aug 26 2012, 9:24am
|
|
Sauron and Unfinished Tales
|
sam90
|
Aug 27 2012, 6:43pm
|
|
It is a matter of guesswork to discern how much Sauron really knew.
|
Escapist
|
Aug 24 2012, 11:51pm
|
|
Maiar
|
sam90
|
Aug 25 2012, 5:53pm
|
|
|
|
