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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
My Dear TheOneRing kindred, how fast thou dost retreat from the lines you draw in the sand, concerning The Hobbit

AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Aug 18 2012, 2:34pm


Views: 1737
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My Dear TheOneRing kindred, how fast thou dost retreat from the lines you draw in the sand, concerning The Hobbit Can't Post

Some of the fleetest progression through stages from Denial to Anger and depression to acceptance (and then to praise and defense!) ever seen.

I have not come to throw hateraid all over Sir Peter, but I think a reality check, or at least a reminder with a hint of intervention is called for here, for some of my fellow TheOneRing kith and kin.

I have heard proclamations against any notions of three films for The Hobbit. . . and I have watched them recede with an almost alarming swiftness. While I will not call out names of some who may not wish to be called out, I have also heard fervent assertions against things that may now be proving true (and some that few if any of us imagined we would have to worry over). I have heard the strict declarations that Bolg should be at Mt. Gundabad, and should absolutely not be made to seem like a henchman of The Necromancer (that he would actually dwell in Dol Guldur seemed beyond the wildest fears of those in that camp), and that Sauron should not seem to have any role in The Battle of Five Armies, etc. etc. etc.

Now it looks as if those things, and many others besides, may well be coming to pass. Peter et al may, it seems, be stepping boldly over the lines that some here have drawn in the sand. . . and the general response has been to back away from those lines at a speed that would embarass a cheetah, and to pretend as though they had never been drawn in the first place. Unimpressed

We are all entitled to change our minds, I suppose. For my part, however, as hopefull as I am about these films, I will say the following things.

1) While I don't mind the notion of Bolg et al being subtly prodded from afar by the designs of Sauron, the notion of him living in Dol Guldur seems a bit much. . . the notion of Azog re-living as a zombie variant of himself seems that much worse.

2) While I am heartened that Gandalf will have visited Dol Guldur prior to The Hobbit timeline, as is proper, to recieve Thrain's key, I rather strongly dislike the notion of Gandalf only discovering The Necromancer's identity IN The Hobbit. It up ends the entire timeline, including the century of delay caused by Saruman, which allowed Sauron time to adjust his plans against the possiblity of an assault from The Council. The notion of Gandalf and Galadriel working against Saruman's wishes in secret makes sense and seems appropriate, but the notion that they are working towards finding out the identity of The Master of Dol Guldur is exactly the sort of major change to the narrative that I and others have long been concerned about.

3) I certainly hope it isn't Bolg who has Gandalf on the run in Dol Guldur. . . not even going to get into how ridiculous that would be, I don't care how damn tough of an orc he is.

4) I've not forgotten the possibility of Nazgul sealed in crypts by Dunedain. . . shamen??? Aside from being (if confirmed, which it hopefully never will become Wink. . . everMad) yet another dirty slight to Glorfindel it is also yet another event that completely reconstructs the actual history of The Third Age. Say what you will about fan fiction, but most fan fictions do not dare that much blatant revisionism.

5) I can see this Necromancy business going about 12 ( yes tweleve) steps too far. A muddying of The Dwarf/Goblin wars in which known deaths are suddenly matters of speculation? A re-animated Azog??? Suddenly the rumours of an undead Smaug assailing The Allies in The Battle of Erebor becomes horrifyingly plausible. . . and what an awful notion that is.

I won't be surprised if some here who would have vomited spears over these potential changes just a few months ago, are defending them with zeal before this post is even pushed to the next forum page, but I think it all deserves a pause and a clear eyed review . . . hopefully it is all just speculation.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

Subject User Time
My Dear TheOneRing kindred, how fast thou dost retreat from the lines you draw in the sand, concerning The Hobbit AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Aug 18 2012, 2:34pm
    Everything is pure conjecture. Same happened with LOTR. Gorbag Send a private message to Gorbag Aug 18 2012, 2:55pm
    People don't like to say they don't know. Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Aug 18 2012, 2:57pm
    People have a right to change their minds based on new information, and their reasons should be their own, not subject to a speculative "reality check" MatthewJer18 Send a private message to MatthewJer18 Aug 18 2012, 3:02pm
    I will admit... DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Aug 18 2012, 3:06pm
    I thought 3 films was a great idea from the beginning Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Aug 18 2012, 3:17pm
    well we dont need a reality check ..noooo thank you! Lusitano Send a private message to Lusitano Aug 18 2012, 3:24pm
    I think they should make ten films Spaldron Send a private message to Spaldron Aug 18 2012, 3:27pm
        Can we have Bombadil on an Oliphaunt as well? / DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Aug 18 2012, 3:50pm
        You have a right to your opinion but I dont like these ideas. Dlanor da Great Send a private message to Dlanor da Great Aug 19 2012, 12:26am
            Erm..... Spaldron Send a private message to Spaldron Aug 19 2012, 1:15am
                Didn't anyone tell you that sarcasm does not work on the boards? Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Aug 19 2012, 1:19am
                    Damn, I knew there was something.... Spaldron Send a private message to Spaldron Aug 19 2012, 1:24am
                Yes I know, I was being sarcastic as well Dlanor da Great Send a private message to Dlanor da Great Aug 20 2012, 6:21pm
        I am blinded by the light! Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Aug 19 2012, 1:11am
    PJ's The Hobbit will be very different from Tolkien's Kassandros Send a private message to Kassandros Aug 18 2012, 3:30pm
        I think PJ's films Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Aug 18 2012, 3:31pm
    I agree with some of what you say, but kzer_za Send a private message to kzer_za Aug 18 2012, 3:54pm
    ...and what of us who started off with praise? Aragorn the Elfstone Send a private message to Aragorn the Elfstone Aug 18 2012, 5:42pm
        Well, of course, shame on you from beginning to end and at all points between lol AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Aug 18 2012, 6:11pm
            yes Lusitano Send a private message to Lusitano Aug 18 2012, 6:22pm
            On that note, I heartily agree... Aragorn the Elfstone Send a private message to Aragorn the Elfstone Aug 18 2012, 6:22pm
                Indeed. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Aug 18 2012, 7:05pm
                Hmmm, I'm one of those people! warhorse Send a private message to warhorse Aug 28 2012, 1:17am
    My Scribbles in the Sand.... Bladerunner Send a private message to Bladerunner Aug 18 2012, 7:28pm
        A very detailed consideration AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Aug 18 2012, 7:37pm
        Speculation is just that... Buchanicus Send a private message to Buchanicus Aug 18 2012, 8:46pm
            Not if a change is made. Lots of minor changes are just fine. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Aug 18 2012, 9:08pm
                They are both changes. But I wouldn't object to either on that basis. Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Aug 18 2012, 9:28pm
                    I absolutely cannot. I can picture a situation where it would do a fantastic job of AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Aug 19 2012, 5:08am
                        Well an adaptation Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Aug 19 2012, 9:50am
                            And, at some point Lacrimae, it ceases to be a direct adaptation and becomes instead AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Aug 19 2012, 5:38pm
                                I am not aware of any definition of that point Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Aug 19 2012, 6:34pm
                                    Agreed Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Aug 19 2012, 6:49pm
                                    Not only does the distinction exist (hard as it may be to pinpoint, admittedly) AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Aug 19 2012, 7:01pm
                                        I expect nothing of the sort! Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Aug 19 2012, 7:11pm
                                        "increasingly the news we are getting".... dormouse Send a private message to dormouse Aug 19 2012, 10:10pm
                                            I agree Tim Send a private message to Tim Aug 19 2012, 10:31pm
            Wasn't sure how to respond.... Bladerunner Send a private message to Bladerunner Aug 19 2012, 2:00pm
                No...I wasn't replying to you...just making a general statement. Buchanicus Send a private message to Buchanicus Aug 19 2012, 7:14pm
    Er.... well... dormouse Send a private message to dormouse Aug 18 2012, 7:34pm
    It seems that these films continually confound out expectations (for better or worse) Captain Salt Send a private message to Captain Salt Aug 18 2012, 10:58pm
        This is exactly how i feel imin Send a private message to imin Aug 18 2012, 11:42pm
    Undead orcs, undead Smaug Ziggy Stardust Send a private message to Ziggy Stardust Aug 18 2012, 11:41pm
    My Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Aug 19 2012, 1:31am
    My opinions have never changed and never will Sinister71 Send a private message to Sinister71 Aug 19 2012, 3:55pm
        I take it you are upset with the way things have gone. Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Aug 19 2012, 4:30pm
            extremely upset actually Sinister71 Send a private message to Sinister71 Aug 19 2012, 5:01pm
        All Right there Zac! (Dr. Seuss Reffernce lol) I certainly admire your constancy, AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Aug 19 2012, 6:24pm
            seems to me though Sinister71 Send a private message to Sinister71 Aug 20 2012, 12:26am
                Adapt or die. Bumblingidiot Send a private message to Bumblingidiot Aug 20 2012, 2:47am
                    I agree Sinister71 Send a private message to Sinister71 Aug 20 2012, 2:51am
                        The context is that of the post-LOTR reader Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Aug 20 2012, 12:32pm
                            wel if they want an abstract adaptation maybe PJ should have hired Sinister71 Send a private message to Sinister71 Aug 20 2012, 3:20pm
                                Would you really place Tim Burton and Michael Bay on the same level? Flagg Send a private message to Flagg Aug 20 2012, 3:49pm
                                    I am inclined to agree with you on this. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Aug 20 2012, 9:22pm
                                Not sure I understand this Lacrimae Rerum Send a private message to Lacrimae Rerum Aug 20 2012, 3:50pm
                                    "They have a cave troll..." Spaldron Send a private message to Spaldron Aug 20 2012, 4:00pm
                                        I think PJ is a far better director than Bay Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Aug 20 2012, 4:10pm
                                            I must disagree Spaldron Send a private message to Spaldron Aug 20 2012, 4:20pm
                                                Still Shelob'sAppetite Send a private message to Shelob'sAppetite Aug 20 2012, 5:46pm
                                                Yes, could we Phibbus Send a private message to Phibbus Aug 20 2012, 9:35pm
                                            I agree Bay is not as good as Jackson Sinister71 Send a private message to Sinister71 Aug 20 2012, 4:54pm
                                                What agenda? Spaldron Send a private message to Spaldron Aug 20 2012, 6:01pm
                                                No agenda Ziggy Stardust Send a private message to Ziggy Stardust Aug 21 2012, 12:24am
                                                    Silly hippie... Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Aug 21 2012, 12:41am
                                        So your telling me Bay isn't a multi million dollar making director? Sinister71 Send a private message to Sinister71 Aug 21 2012, 1:20am
                        Can you see any bird crap? Spaldron Send a private message to Spaldron Aug 21 2012, 2:43pm
                            well it is a publicity ahot Sinister71 Send a private message to Sinister71 Aug 21 2012, 5:17pm
                    But it takes someone special Kangi Ska Send a private message to Kangi Ska Aug 20 2012, 2:53am
                        well I personally don't want more LOTR Sinister71 Send a private message to Sinister71 Aug 20 2012, 3:07am
                            Then thank Ilúvatar you're not directing these... Spaldron Send a private message to Spaldron Aug 20 2012, 12:01pm
                It always seemed to me that Tolkien was - Hanzkaz Aug 20 2012, 9:36am
        Have you seen the films already? Spaldron Send a private message to Spaldron Aug 20 2012, 12:53am
            And your obviously ignoring material being presented Sinister71 Send a private message to Sinister71 Aug 20 2012, 1:59am
                Enough Silverlode Send a private message to Silverlode Aug 20 2012, 2:59am
    hmm Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Aug 19 2012, 6:04pm
        When the new information is nothing more than a confirmation of things one claims to have been AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Aug 19 2012, 6:36pm
            It sounds like a lot of the invented material Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Aug 19 2012, 6:43pm
                thing is Sinister71 Send a private message to Sinister71 Aug 19 2012, 7:11pm
                    There is an enemy and more than a footnote about the necromancer in the appendices. // Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Aug 19 2012, 7:23pm
                        and using that information Sinister71 Send a private message to Sinister71 Aug 19 2012, 7:28pm
                            You are in luck! Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Aug 19 2012, 7:32pm
                                I read the book frequently Sinister71 Send a private message to Sinister71 Aug 19 2012, 7:37pm
    1) There's no point in complaining about things we can't change. 2) Most of us are determined to *enjoy* these films when they are finished. Oin K Send a private message to Oin K Aug 22 2012, 9:25pm

 
 
 

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