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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
How do you think they'll handle Bilbo's invisibility?
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Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 4 2012, 8:49pm

Post #26 of 56 (461 views)
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But this is just like the "invisible" toys from LOTR. [In reply to] Can't Post

Am I missing something?

LR


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 4 2012, 8:58pm

Post #27 of 56 (444 views)
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No, you're not [In reply to] Can't Post

The toys tell us nothing about how Bilbo's invisibility will be handled, as we saw a very similar toy for Frodo.


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 4 2012, 9:00pm

Post #28 of 56 (549 views)
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People keep saying this - Sauron was actively searching for the ring! [In reply to] Can't Post

2850. Gandalf again enters Dol Guldur, and discovers that its master is indeed
Sauron, who is gathering all the Rings and seeking for news of the One, and of
Isildur's Heir.

2939. Saruman discovers that Sauron's servants are searching the Anduin near Gladden Fields, and that Sauron therefore has learned of Isildur's end.

2941 Saruman agrees to an attack on Dol Guldur, since he now wishes to prevent Sauron from searching the River.

FOTR: So now, when its master was awake once more and sending out his dark thought from Mirkwood, it abandoned Gollum.

LR


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 4 2012, 9:00pm

Post #29 of 56 (453 views)
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Yup here it is: [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.themonstercompany.co.uk/images/image-large.png


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 4 2012, 9:05pm

Post #30 of 56 (465 views)
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Apparently the invisible and intangible versions... [In reply to] Can't Post

Offer some of the best toy profit margins around.

LR


DesiringDragons
Lorien


Aug 4 2012, 9:05pm

Post #31 of 56 (482 views)
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But [In reply to] Can't Post

the ring abandoned Gollum in TH, not FotR.

Thank you for the correction about the ring-seeking though! Maybe the difference is that Sauron was not yet focused. He hadn't yet tortured Gollum and learned of the Shire and "Baggins".


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 4 2012, 9:08pm

Post #32 of 56 (486 views)
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Certainly he was weaker [In reply to] Can't Post

And didn't know where it was beyond the stage of the story where it fell into the Anduin.

I'm not sure I follow your first point though? This is Gandalf, in FOTR, describing the moment in TH where Bilbo finds the ring.

LR


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Aug 4 2012, 9:11pm

Post #33 of 56 (442 views)
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The Emperor's New Toy? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Silverlode

"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories


DesiringDragons
Lorien


Aug 4 2012, 9:14pm

Post #34 of 56 (464 views)
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Oh, I thought you were making a chronology. [In reply to] Can't Post

You had a list of dates and then:

"FOTR: So now, when its master was awake once more and sending out his dark thought from Mirkwood, it abandoned Gollum."

So I thought you meant that it was in FotR that the ring left Gollum.

My mistake; apologies! And thanks again for the correction. I wonder even more now how this will play out in TH: whether the Necromancer will realize that the ring has changed bearers but be unable to pinpoint it.



Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 4 2012, 9:19pm

Post #35 of 56 (450 views)
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Not what I meant [In reply to] Can't Post

In LOTR, he knows it has been found, knows generally what geographic location it is in, and has an idea of who might have it. For this reason, his active searching was much more focused and intense. All his thought was bent on it. The Nazgul were on high alert.

Prior to Gollum's admission, Sauron was working off vague clues only.

As such, PJ can justify making the "ring world" a little less intense in the Hobbit.


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 4 2012, 9:31pm

Post #36 of 56 (458 views)
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I tend to lump it into the "Tolkien's slightly erratic baddies" bag. [In reply to] Can't Post

The ring was seeking to get back to Sauron, and Sauron was seeking the ring.

But his eye wasn't as big so he couldn't see as far. As good an explanation as any!

LR


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 4 2012, 9:41pm

Post #37 of 56 (425 views)
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Oh I think he'll have to. [In reply to] Can't Post

I would guess simply saying he is still gathering his strength would probably do.

It is a little incongruous in the text, for all the reasons that we know.

LR


Morok Cloudkeeper
Rohan


Aug 4 2012, 9:51pm

Post #38 of 56 (403 views)
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Invisible [In reply to] Can't Post

"It's only a toy - how else are they supposed to get across he's invisible?"

By making him invisible? SmileWink


Your work is going to fill a large part of your life, and the only way to be truly satisfied is to do what you believe is great work. And the only way to do great work is to love what you do. If you haven't found it yet, keep looking. Don't settle.



DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 4 2012, 9:52pm

Post #39 of 56 (393 views)
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Ahh, but it wouldn't be a toy then ;-) / [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Yngwulff
Gondor


Aug 4 2012, 9:56pm

Post #40 of 56 (405 views)
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Bilbo and the Ring [In reply to] Can't Post

#1 Even in LOTR Bilbo suffered none of the ill effects Frodo was subjected to when putting on the Ring.

#2 Knowing ones name in ME is a powerful thing and can be misused. Notice how they refrain form using Saurons name as much as possible during LOTR ie the Enemy, the Dark Lord the Eye ect. Sauron did not know the name Baggins until Gollums capture and torture years later, and it was after Bilbo bequeathed the Ring to Frodo.

#3 I don't believe Sauron was strong enough until the time Frodo poissessed the Ring to exert his power upon it as Frodo experience, and Bilbo was never close enough with the Ring to Mordor and Bardur to feel the "weight" of the Ring as Frodo had.


Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
Vote for Pedro!


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 4 2012, 9:56pm

Post #41 of 56 (399 views)
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100% profit [In reply to] Can't Post

If you're selling nothing!


DesiringDragons
Lorien


Aug 4 2012, 10:08pm

Post #42 of 56 (372 views)
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Works for me. :) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 4 2012, 10:09pm

Post #43 of 56 (406 views)
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Don't get me wrong, there's a hundred reasons we could make up. [In reply to] Can't Post

It's just one has to do a little dressing rather than it being intrinsically clear. He was certainly much better at finding the ring a few years later. Amon hen - all over it like a tramp on chips. Mirkwood - not the faintest.

On a side point I would disagree slightly with your name thing. Sauron is the most common name used for him by some distance.

LR


Yngwulff
Gondor


Aug 4 2012, 10:30pm

Post #44 of 56 (395 views)
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Even the Orcs feared to use it [In reply to] Can't Post

They said the Tower or Lugburz out of fear of drawing attention to themselves.


Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
Vote for Pedro!


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 4 2012, 10:35pm

Post #45 of 56 (374 views)
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Ha the orcs might but Tolkien clearly didn't! [In reply to] Can't Post

If you count up the number of times the word Sauron is used by the characters it outnumbers any of the euphemisms for him.

LR


Yngwulff
Gondor


Aug 4 2012, 10:43pm

Post #46 of 56 (356 views)
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Not talking about Tolkien [In reply to] Can't Post

Speaking about the characters and people of ME and their superstitious fear (and rightly so) of innate magic and the danger that could be brought upon oneself by drawing his attention to you. Hence they refrained from using his name when possible.


Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
Vote for Pedro!


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 4 2012, 10:59pm

Post #47 of 56 (367 views)
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Um well the chracters in the books of LOTR [In reply to] Can't Post

In the speech recorded in the books use it more frequently than any other term on a purely quantiative basis.

Perhaps you are saying that "off page", as it were, the dialogue which might have taken place might be different, but there doesn't seem to be any great discomfort on the part of the characters using it "on page"

The only other business is the thing with him not allowing his own troops to use his name but that seems rather different (if true!)

LR


(This post was edited by Lacrimae Rerum on Aug 4 2012, 11:06pm)


Bladerunner
Gondor


Aug 5 2012, 1:05am

Post #48 of 56 (419 views)
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Scenes from Bilbo's viewpoint while he's wearing the ring [In reply to] Can't Post

could be presented with a very slight trippy distortion like he is seeing the world through a viscous transparent media. Voices could have slight distortion or echo also.

Scene's from a third-person viewpoint where the audience can see Bilbo could be shown the same way.

Scenes switched to Gollum's, elves', dwarves' or goblins' points of view, can be shown in normal mode, with only hints of Bilbo's presence, such as his faint shadow at the cave entrance, his footprints, or his physical effect on surrrounding objects.

btw - at what point can a person claim "posting on TORN Forums" as an official hobby? :0)


Hanzkaz
Rohan

Aug 5 2012, 10:28am

Post #49 of 56 (441 views)
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I wonder if Bilbo had the Ring so long - [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Plus, Bilbo uses it at the start of FOTR, and there is no indication that he goes through a crazy vortex before popping back to visibility in Bag End.


- that he didn't notice how things had changed. The Ring's grip on him was getting stronger, making him more and more oblivious to indications that something was wrong. A bit like a drug.

By contrast, when Frodo put the Ring on, he got a shock. Nothing in Bilbo's stories had prepared him for the experience.


Spaldron
Rivendell


Aug 6 2012, 4:12am

Post #50 of 56 (268 views)
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Its odd that Bilbo doesn't experience the Ring effects [In reply to] Can't Post

That's something I've never even considered despite seeing the FOTR at least 50 times. Maybe its because Sauron isn't actively seeking the ring at that point (which I find unlikely) but I suspect it was probably an oversight on PJ's behalf.

Its almost certain that Sauron was searching for the One Ring all that time (and we know that the Nazgul were about too) so its odd that none of them honed in on Bilbo the amount of times he used the Ring between The Hobbit and LOTR.

"A single dream is more powerful than a thousand realities."

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