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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Passing the Misty Mountains...

Scalpy
Bree

Aug 2 2012, 2:12am

Post #1 of 19 (883 views)
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Passing the Misty Mountains... Can't Post

Why did the Fellowship not choose to cross the Pass of Imladris, as opposed to travelling south? Surely it would have been safer (and easier) to go this route, to the Anduin and then onto Lothlorien?

Just a thought that popped into my head this morning while reading the books again!


geordie
Tol Eressea

Aug 2 2012, 12:15pm

Post #2 of 19 (488 views)
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Gandalf says [In reply to] Can't Post

-somewhere or other; I don't have a copy of LotR at hand right now - Gandalf says that the Enemy would expect them to take the pass and travel down the eastern side of the mountains; the western side ought to be less watched.


sador
Half-elven


Aug 2 2012, 12:37pm

Post #3 of 19 (457 views)
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You probably mean this [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
At the Ford of Bruinen they left the Road and turning southwards went on by narrow paths among the folded lands. Their purpose was to hold this course west of the Mountains for many miles and days. The country was much rougher and more barren than in the green vale of the Great River in Wilderland on the other side of the range, and their going would be slow; but they hoped in this way to escape the notice of unfriendly eyes. The spies of Sauron had hitherto seldom been seen in this empty country, and the paths were little known except to the people of Rivendell.


- The Ring Goes South

Although Tolkien seems to have forgotten the pass near the headwaters of the Gladden River. It is mentioned in this chapter as one of the paths Elrond's spies took, but Gandalf and Aragorn never consider it after the attempt to cross Redhorn Gate up Caradhras fails (as an alternative to Moria), and it is far less likely to snow as well as avoiding Dimrill's Stair, at the bottom of which the Orcs guarding the Moria East-gate would spy them.
Maybe the area between the Carroc and the Gladden fields are also infested by Orcs, but it seems more likely that Gandalf really (wisely?) wanted to take them to Lorien.

And Tolkien did forget it - in the 1960 rewrite of The Hobbit he did have Balin suggesting a more southren route than the High Pass, to have Gandalf snap at him that there are none before Moria. Nice foreshadowing! But Gandalf (and Tolkien himself) forgot about the Gladden pass...

"Is the mountain more dangerous because it is personified? Are the nights not scary enough unless they are actively plotting against the dwarves?"
- Arwen's Daughter.



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DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 2 2012, 12:44pm

Post #4 of 19 (428 views)
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I don't think it was Gandalf [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't have the book on me either, but I think it was Legolas who said that. If I remember rightly, Legolas reports that the High Pass was now almost completely infested with goblins. It had become an impossible path to use, unless with a large, armed company.

The Fellowship was neither large nor armed - the High Pass would've also taken them a lot further North than necessary.


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 2 2012, 12:58pm

Post #5 of 19 (383 views)
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Ignore what I said - I can't find any quote by Legolas saying this. / [In reply to] Can't Post

 


imin
Valinor


Aug 2 2012, 1:05pm

Post #6 of 19 (411 views)
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I think it was Elrond who said this [In reply to] Can't Post

He advised them against it as it was infested with orcs.

Also would it not take them close to Dol Guldur and like you said it would be take too long.


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 2 2012, 1:31pm

Post #7 of 19 (413 views)
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I've got FOTR in pdf [In reply to] Can't Post

But I can't find what I'm looking for. The only reference that is relevant is:


Quote

'lndeed,' said Glóin, `if it were not for the Beornings, the passage from Dale to Rivendell would

long ago have become impossible. They are valiant men and keep open the High Pass and the Ford

of Carrock. But their tolls are high,' he added with a shake of his head; `and like Beorn of old they


are not over fond of dwarves. Still, they are trusty, and that is much in these days.





imin
Valinor


Aug 2 2012, 1:39pm

Post #8 of 19 (388 views)
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i must have imagined it then, lol [In reply to] Can't Post

still at that time of year the route over the high pass would be impassable surely what with all the snow and risk of hypothermia/avalanche.

Then there is the fact it would take longer and closer to dol guldur and spies than i am sure they would have liked.

I have had this discussion before with friends, then one friend always mentions, why not by sea, and then another says why not fly the ring to mordor on an eagle, lol.


Elizabeth
Valinor


Aug 2 2012, 1:49pm

Post #9 of 19 (449 views)
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Even Celeborn and Galadriel use the Redhorn Gate... [In reply to] Can't Post

...as their route home. In Many Partings we read:

Quote
Soon Celeborn and Galadriel and their folk would turn eastward, and so pass by the Redhorn Gate and down the Dimrill Stair to the Silverlode and to their own country.

So, if there was a pass at the headwaters of the Gladden, either they didn't know about it (wildly unlikely) or there was some reason it wasn't usable.






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Elizabeth is the TORnsib formerly known as 'erather'


sador
Half-elven


Aug 2 2012, 1:53pm

Post #10 of 19 (407 views)
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For them, it would be a really long detour. [In reply to] Can't Post

The Dimrill Stair takes them straight home.

And it was late summer - no snow - and they could assume very few Orcs remained in Moria with much motivation to molest them.

"Is the mountain more dangerous because it is personified? Are the nights not scary enough unless they are actively plotting against the dwarves?"
- Arwen's Daughter.



The weekly discussion of The Hobbit is back. Join us in the Reading Room for A Short Rest!


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 2 2012, 1:56pm

Post #11 of 19 (427 views)
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I was going to say the same thing [In reply to] Can't Post

And the pass at the source of the Gladden was probably swarming with Orcs as well. It would have been risky for the Fellowship along any pass.


geordie
Tol Eressea

Aug 2 2012, 4:50pm

Post #12 of 19 (377 views)
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Yep, that's it. :-) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Scalpy
Bree

Aug 3 2012, 1:13am

Post #13 of 19 (397 views)
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Legolas and Gimli? [In reply to] Can't Post

The thing that brought my thought up was, how did the groups from Thranduil and the Lonely Mountain get to Rivendell? Surely the passes would have also been dangerous in terms of Orcs for them to get through as well?


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 3 2012, 8:22am

Post #14 of 19 (357 views)
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That's why I thought Legolas had made the comment [In reply to] Can't Post

Legolas' group of merry Mirkwood men would have been a larger (and armed) group, compared to the Fellowship. They could've fought off any orcs. The same is probably true for Gimli.


geordie
Tol Eressea

Aug 3 2012, 9:45am

Post #15 of 19 (356 views)
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The Beornings hold the pass [In reply to] Can't Post

- as explained by Gloin to Frodo in 'Many Meetings'. Grimbeorn son of Beorn is their leader - brave men and true, as Gloin says; but they charge high tolls, as he added with regret.

Smile


PhantomS
Rohan


Aug 6 2012, 4:08am

Post #16 of 19 (325 views)
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Since the First Age [In reply to] Can't Post

Dwarves have always travelled in large, armed companies even when in exile from Erebor. That's why you never hear stories of Dwarves getting robbed on the road or killed in transit. They are friendly with the Beornings, who live on the east end of the High Pass and the Carrock. Dwarves are well armed, regular travellers, so they are less likely to draw attention in the High Pass from Orcs.

As for the Elves they are not easy to notice, but it's likely Legolas didn't come without backup either. They have the advantage of being in contact with Rivendell,or Aragorn at least, which could have made their passage much easier than the Dwarves. Being Elves they can also use the ways east of Imladris and not draw notice.


Sam20
Lorien

Aug 6 2012, 10:57pm

Post #17 of 19 (344 views)
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The Fellowship's journey [In reply to] Can't Post

@Scalpy As somone said before and I share this view, they were perhaps expected to pass this way (the pass of Imladris) by Sauron who certainly give thought to that after the humiliation of his Ringwraiths. No doubt many spies to his service were lurking there awaiting the compagny to pass. Therefore going south was an unexpected move and the Fellowship gained some secrecy though the road was in the end no less perilous by their crossing of Moria.


(This post was edited by sam90 on Aug 6 2012, 11:00pm)


Michael Martinez
The Shire

Sep 28 2012, 5:48am

Post #18 of 19 (283 views)
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They made the attempt [In reply to] Can't Post

The pass you're referring to is the Redhorn Pass and it was blocked by snow when the Fellowship attempted to cross the mountains.

Author of Visualizing Middle-earth, Parma Endorion, and Understanding Middle-earth.
http://www.michael-martinez.com/

Middle-earth.Xenite.Org


Scalpy
Bree

Oct 4 2012, 4:37am

Post #19 of 19 (343 views)
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Not the Redhorn [In reply to] Can't Post

Michael, I'm not referring to the Redhorn Pass, I'm referring to the High Pass (Cirith Forn en Andrath) which runs from Rivendell east, over the mountains down into the vale of Anduin. This is the route Bilbo and the Dwarves took to get over the Misty Mountains in The Hobbit.

 
 

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