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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
More '3rd Hobbit Film' Rumblings
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TheCoon
Lorien

Jul 25 2012, 2:59am

Post #26 of 224 (1750 views)
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as long as it doesnt [In reply to] Can't Post

delay the release of the other films


pulpfiction16
Rivendell

Jul 25 2012, 3:00am

Post #27 of 224 (1773 views)
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Shocking actually [In reply to] Can't Post

How much money studios make on DVD re-releases, particularly for things like the extended editions.

Keep in mind after all that since they still have to perform reshoots and pick-ups next year anyway, they'd merely be extending it. So, right there you already have all the filming infrastructure, set, props ready to go. That's one of the major costs, the pre-production. So, this is incredibly time sensitive but they stand to benefit hugely by approving more footage.

Either it ends up in a third film which is already a sure-fired money maker (say they drop fifty million onto the total budget of all three films, they stand the benefit of the probable one billion dollar gross of that film), or it goes into extended editions which people do double dip for.

It's not really that much of a gamble, it's one of the safest bets in the world. I will be shocked, if true that Peter wants to make a third film, if they turned it down the offer for a third film on their slate. If you think of the money 'not earned' as though it was money lost, it would equate to the largest bomb in box office industry (i.e., by losing out on a potential billion dollars of revenue from a third film). I hope that analogy made sense..


GoodGuyA
Lorien

Jul 25 2012, 3:01am

Post #28 of 224 (1801 views)
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It all just seems excessive [In reply to] Can't Post

A bridge film... what would that contain? Gandalf doing nothing for 61 years? Gollum creeping around? Strider growing up? I cannot possibly conceive of a film in between TH and LotR that would not either be extraneous or remove the importance of some vital plot element in LotR. The stuff with the Nazgul in TH all ready worries me in that regard. You're not supposed to know about the Nine before Gandalf tells you about them. Seeing them ride out for the first time is chilling, unexpected, and mysterious. What could you put in between these films that would actually be exciting without giving away LotR?


Patty
Immortal


Jul 25 2012, 3:11am

Post #29 of 224 (1735 views)
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If I had my absolute druthers... [In reply to] Can't Post

they'd film a ton for EEs instead of another movie. That's because the third movie would, undoubtedly, be ANOTHER year away.

But I still don't see them doing a third movie. I can't believe they'd make people wait another year to see Smaug, cause he couldn't possibly be in a middle movie.

Ah, well, we'll see. Either way, it looks promising for more Middle-earth, and after all that's in the production video (especially Dale and Beorn's house) I'm so ready for it.

Permanent address: Into the West






Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jul 25 2012, 3:17am

Post #30 of 224 (1836 views)
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Mike Fleming articulates here why this may well be cause for concern... [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.deadline.com/...rilogy-its-possible/

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 25 2012, 3:21am

Post #31 of 224 (1738 views)
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I really hope this isn't true. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd rather that PJ focused on delivering two very strong movies than trying to pad out the story into three films. A trilogy isn't necessary for The Hobbit!

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jul 25 2012, 3:24am

Post #32 of 224 (1724 views)
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Was just going to say the same exact thing... ;) [In reply to] Can't Post

Two strong films is far preferable to three diluted, listless, cumbersome films...

Mark me as being in the "opposed" camp.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!

(This post was edited by Captain Salt on Jul 25 2012, 3:26am)


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jul 25 2012, 3:32am

Post #33 of 224 (1689 views)
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Or, perhaps we're simply going to get three 2-hour films... [In reply to] Can't Post

rather than 2 roughly 3-hour films, and PJ is filming more of the back-story of the Dwarves and the Necromancer? We'll see...

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


g_jones
The Shire

Jul 25 2012, 3:33am

Post #34 of 224 (1702 views)
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My vote is for a trilogy [In reply to] Can't Post

The more of PJ's version of Middle-Earth, the better.


Nob of the Pony
Registered User


Jul 25 2012, 3:35am

Post #35 of 224 (1715 views)
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When you think of it...TTT was padded out quite a bit [In reply to] Can't Post

The actual movie of TTT covered very little of the book....maybe left out about half of each storyline. But I have NO idea what he could do to make 3 movies out of the Hobbit!

If it's making PJ want to call the cast back and enter into another filming block, it's got to be something that excites him. This is the man who seemed to be sick of Middle Earth just a few years ago.

I know I should cringe but I'm actually excited!


Nob of the Pony
Registered User


Jul 25 2012, 3:42am

Post #36 of 224 (1800 views)
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His argument is Twilight... [In reply to] Can't Post

There is way more material in Tolkien than there is for Twilight....

To me, its a weak argument.


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jul 25 2012, 3:45am

Post #37 of 224 (1869 views)
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Regarding rights, this statement really jumped out at me: [In reply to] Can't Post

"(The Hobbit has a long [and] tortured rights history.)"

First of all, where have statements such as this been all along? Secondly, are they referring to the movie rights since the beginning of time, or just for PJ's adaptation? Or is this just speculation?

Some here suspect rights wrangling played a significant role in delaying the green-light for the first two movies (though everything but rights issues seems to have been blamed for the delays). Where are the articles that support this claim, the so-called history? Or is it just a throw away line for filler?


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Jul 25 2012, 3:47am)


Nob of the Pony
Registered User


Jul 25 2012, 3:53am

Post #38 of 224 (1796 views)
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Maybe they just end Film two with Bilbo pissing Smaug off... [In reply to] Can't Post

If PJ puts most of the Dol Guldor stuff in film 2, he can kill Smaug in the first act of film 3 and stretch out the epicness of TBO5A. End film 1 as the company is getting captured by the wood elves? That way, in film 2 you have the barrel escape in act 1, Dol Guildor and Lake Town political intrigue in act 2 and the ascent of Lonely Mountain and Bilbo's confrontation with Smaug in act 3. They better not save Smaug completely for film 3, that would be excruciating...


Kristin Thompson
Rohan


Jul 25 2012, 3:55am

Post #39 of 224 (1913 views)
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Tolkien's contract for film rights [In reply to] Can't Post

The contracts that Tolkien and his publisher signed back in 1969 when they sold the film rights were part of the evidence in the lawsuit that the Tolkien Trust and HarperCollins filed against New Line to get the moneys due to them. The entire texts of the contracts were made part of the evidence in the suit, which meant that for the first time they were made public.

The rights were not to revert to Tolkien; they were sold in perpetuity. Saul Zaentz is the basic owner, but he sold the rights (I presume for an undisclosed period of time) to New Line. The complications come partly because the distribution rights for The Hobbit ended up with MGM (due to the fact that the original sale was to United Artists, which is now owned by MGM). Anyway, the contract clearly states that whoever makes a film of LOTR or The Hobbit can use the characters, etc. for further films. I suppose it's possible that in the deal Zaentz made with New Line he put restrictions on the rights that we don't know anything about. But that would be under his control, not the Tolkien Estate's.


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Jul 25 2012, 4:06am

Post #40 of 224 (1676 views)
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The Hobbit Versus The Lord of the Rings [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Altaira: A trilogy isn't necessary for The Hobbit!


If The Hobbit, a single book, is made into a trilogy, what does that say about how abbreviated The Lord of the Rings, three books, becomes in comparison?


(This post was edited by JWPlatt on Jul 25 2012, 4:07am)


Patty
Immortal


Jul 25 2012, 4:11am

Post #41 of 224 (1727 views)
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My only big Hobbit concern... [In reply to] Can't Post

is how watching it on home video in 3D during a marathon will make LotR look afterwards. Flat, I suspect.

Permanent address: Into the West






Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 25 2012, 4:16am

Post #42 of 224 (1710 views)
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Close, but not quite. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm the other A-Lady.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Magpie
Immortal


Jul 25 2012, 4:20am

Post #43 of 224 (1840 views)
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ew.com also reporting on this: [In reply to] Can't Post

http://insidemovies.ew.com/...bbit-into-a-trilogy/

They start with:
Well, it may still be early, but EW has confirmed that serious discussions between Jackson and Warner Bros. are indeed taking place to explore the possibility of turning The Hobbit into a trilogy.


but follow up with:
Before you get too excited, though, there are several major hurdles that would need to be cleared before this could become a reality: among other things, new deals would need to be worked out with the cast, and it’s quite likely that Jackson—who had already scheduled two months of additional shooting on the second film for next year—would need to add even more time to shoot additional material to fill out a third film.



LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Not_the_beard
The Shire

Jul 25 2012, 4:22am

Post #44 of 224 (1691 views)
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Testing the waters? [In reply to] Can't Post

Do you think they might have been giving this rumor more of the limelight than it deserves just to see fan reactions to it? Personally, as much as I love PJ, I think he's gotten a big head with the momentum these movies have right now. If he looks through the internet to see what appears to be the majority's opinion of: "I think 3 is pushing it, but if it's done well, I'll change my mind." With all the emotions behind the end of filming and the positive feedback from comic-con, I bet PJ really believes that he can do it well, regardless of whether that's even possible to stretch it out that far and it still be enjoyable. He doesn't want this magical ride to end yet, so if he has a chance to make it go on, then I bet he will, unfortunately.


There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Jul 25 2012, 4:34am

Post #45 of 224 (1744 views)
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Restructuring the current two films? [In reply to] Can't Post

My questions are these:

If The Hobbit was planned as two films then how can you make it a trilogy without at least some tinkering to PART 1 which is presumably already cut in some shape or form?

Also if PART 2 is called There And Back Again then what the heck will PART 3 be called?

Could this be a standalone film?

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas

(This post was edited by There&ThereAgain on Jul 25 2012, 4:35am)


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Jul 25 2012, 4:40am

Post #46 of 224 (1694 views)
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Gah [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh, sorry!

Please feel free to edit my post accordingly.


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jul 25 2012, 4:40am

Post #47 of 224 (1727 views)
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Zaentz didn't actually sell the rights, only licenced them [In reply to] Can't Post

Zaentz didn't sell the rights to New Line, he entered into a complicated licence agreement with Miramax, which then quitclaimed its rights under that agreement to New Line (and then those rights passed to WB when they bought New Line. The licence agreement provides a series of continually vesting options to make additional films, so long as production begins within a certain amount of time after the completion of the last film. Zaentz still owns the actual rights, but there aren't any additional restrictions in the licence agreement (which was also produced in the course of the lawsuit).

So there should not be any issue with WB making an additional film if they so chose. As you point out, the only complication, if there is any, would be the distribution rights that are still in MGM's hands. But I'm sure that could be worked out.

I still hope they don't do it, though. I can't imagine a third theatrical release being worthwhile

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Jul 25 2012, 4:44am

Post #48 of 224 (1663 views)
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The Waters [In reply to] Can't Post

They don't need to float the idea to test the waters. It's obvious that if they build it, and it's done well, which has my full confidence in Jackson's Middle Earth team, they (the audience) will come (in droves).


weaver
Half-elven

Jul 25 2012, 4:54am

Post #49 of 224 (1680 views)
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Well, they did it once before... [In reply to] Can't Post

They hadn't gotten to filming yet, but the decision by New Line to do two films instead of three, gave us the LOTR trilogy as we know it. They had to redo the script, and a lot of the things were added to the story, particularly in TTT... the whole way they developed Aragorn and Theoden in relation to one another, for one, seems like something that we would never have gotten in a 2 film version.

Jackson likes creative challenges, so I could see him being willing to figure out a way to stretch 2 films into three...after all., it worked once!

Me, I don't think the Hobbit as written could handle being stretched to 3 films -- to me the easiest thing would be to focus on the time "before the Hobbit" -- something that would be based on the appendices...so they could focus on Numenor, for example, or the House of Eorl, or Durin's folk...or the early years of the Second Age.

I'm thinking -- dare I say it -- a "prequel"? The kind of thing that would tell the back story of things that happened before the Dwarves quest, and the Ring quest, but within the limits of what Tolkien sketches out in the appendices. The trouble is there's no story, just a summary of what happened. So it would be up to the film makers to craft a story around those events.

The good news is, in this scenario, that this film crew has spent a lot of time in Middle Earth. I would trust them to come up with a storyline that would respect the source.

To put it in Star Trek terms -- the LOTR films are Classic trek, the Hobbit is like The Next Generation -- and the "third" Hobbit film or whatever it is would be Deep Space Nine. Me, I liked all of those series, so I could live with a scenario like I laid out. But not everyone liked DS9, I know!

All IMHO, of course!

Weaver




Elessar
Valinor


Jul 25 2012, 5:09am

Post #50 of 224 (1642 views)
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Color me interested [In reply to] Can't Post

I can't say I wouldn't be interested in spending more time past the two hobbit films in Middle-Earth.

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