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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Entertainment Weekly: "The Scroll" shows 10 hobbit scenes, dwarves, trolls, wargs, Beorn in bear form and more!
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DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 10 2012, 10:59pm

Post #301 of 355 (9113 views)
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There we are then! [In reply to] Can't Post

Evidence that I need to re-read it.

Sorry artemy Blush


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 11 2012, 12:08am

Post #302 of 355 (8941 views)
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oh, yeah, just greeeeaaaatttt, DanielLB [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been searching for HOURS for this moth and NOW you tell us it's not there. Ahhh thanks for nothin.


Just kiddingWink

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 11 2012, 12:25am

Post #303 of 355 (8994 views)
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I would like to join you in defending Beorn's size [In reply to] Can't Post

As others have said, we might not know if that's his actual size in the film because it could be a photoshop. But if that is his size in the film I think it's perfect.

I imagined his human form as being relatively close to that height, although we don't know for sure if he will be bigger. But I think it would make sense with him morphing into a bear of relatively the same height.

And he looks like he's slightly larger than the average bear, which I really like. I don't want to see a giant bear that's as relatively oversized as the Oliphaunts were (although I did like the size of the Oliphaunts). I always imagined Beorn just being a slightly larger than normal sized bear.

Hopefully, this won't become the new "Shelob" of the film. I remember a lot of people thought Shelob wasn't big enough, but I was completely fine with her size in the film.

What I have always been more excited to see is what Beorn looks like in Human form. It's easy to picture a bear. But I feel weird for being the only one who is more interested in seeing Beorn in his human form. And I think I remember MP saying something about having to beef up for the role which will probably look pretty cool. Does anyone else remember him saying that?

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Jul 11 2012, 12:39am

Post #304 of 355 (8356 views)
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Tempted, so tempted [In reply to] Can't Post

I probably shouldn't be replying to this thread, because I did not look at the pictures, but after reading the comments, the pictures sound really good. I'm so tempted to look at them, but since there is a spoiler warning, I'm afraid to, lest I spoil it for myself. Crazy

"It's okay, I feel like getting up and screaming every time you walk into a room." -Lestrade, Sherlock S2,ep3.


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 11 2012, 12:43am

Post #305 of 355 (8265 views)
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How about... [In reply to] Can't Post

...copying the link to this thread (click on 'Copy Shortcut' beneath the OP's avatar) and save it into a document. If you do this for any other spoilerific images or information, you'll at least know that once The Hobbit is released you'll have a lot of delicious reading and images to indulge in. :)

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 11 2012, 1:04am

Post #306 of 355 (8940 views)
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Of course you do [In reply to] Can't Post

It's the only way.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 11 2012, 1:06am

Post #307 of 355 (8741 views)
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You are definitely not the only one... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think most of us are dying to see Persbrandt as Beorn in human form.

We've all seen bears before, but none of us have seen a filmic interpretation of the human Beorn. Almost everyone is anticipating that.

Just be prepared for him to be blonde. Wink


Spencissimus
Lorien


Jul 11 2012, 1:16am

Post #308 of 355 (8711 views)
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I'm not convinced he will be [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm definately certain that there is not a single blonde hair anywhere on that heavily photoshopped image of Beorn...it's definately just lighting. I think that earlier in the thread you mentioned that the image is backlit, so the top of his shaggy head wouldn't by highlighted in that way, but I just put that down to the photoshop job. This whole scroll is a series of composite images, and I'd say that the image of Gandalf, Beorn and the eagles is no different. Chances are that Beorn in bear form, lighting and all, was superimposed onto this image along with the other components.

Persbrandt's Beorn may very well be blonde, but IMHO there's nothing in the image that supports that theory unequivocally. In any case, wouldn't a predominately dark-furred bear look a bit strange with a mop of blonde hair on on top?


(This post was edited by Spencissimus on Jul 11 2012, 1:22am)


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 11 2012, 1:19am

Post #309 of 355 (8778 views)
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Actually [In reply to] Can't Post

The funny thing is that when they had cast Mikael Persbrandt I actually envisioned Beorn as being a more blond haired fellow. I don't know why.

Shelob, you are always good with the historical references with Tolkien's work. Do you by any chance know exactly what "ethnicity" Beorn was kind of based off of? Like the Dwarves are Norse influenced if I'm not mistaken and Rohirrim were Anglo-Saxon/Viking/Danes influenced (actually if you could tell me what exactly the rohirrim were influenced by that would be great because I hear all sorts of answers).

I heard that Beorn is supposed to be Scandanavian influence so how does that work out with the blong hair?

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


artemy
Lorien


Jul 11 2012, 1:24am

Post #310 of 355 (8793 views)
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Forgive me as I know I'm not Shelob [In reply to] Can't Post

but Beorn's name was taken from Björn, which means "bear" in Icelandic, Swedish, Norwegian and Danish. I also know that in the Norse mythos the berserkers (to which Beorn is comparable) could sometimes take the form of bears, or at least wore bear skins in battle. And traditionally Scandinavians are associated with blond hair and blue eyes Blush

~Beneath the sun, all things must wear to an end at last~

(This post was edited by artemy on Jul 11 2012, 1:32am)


ElendilTheShort
Gondor

Jul 11 2012, 1:31am

Post #311 of 355 (8792 views)
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I wanted to see at least a part of a spider [In reply to] Can't Post

such as a leg or one curled up like Shelob in ROTK, or even part of a head and eyes poking around a tree trunk but no such luck.

Wasn't Beorn noted as having black hair on his limbs and head....just asking casue I don't have the books with me. In the scroll Beorn T. Bear looks like he has blonde side burns.

Noticed a couple of inconsitencies if you will, regarding the book in the first shot. Any one else see them. Not complaining mind you as this scroll is O for awesome.


(This post was edited by ElendilTheShort on Jul 11 2012, 1:35am)


dave_lf
Gondor

Jul 11 2012, 1:40am

Post #312 of 355 (8883 views)
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Beorn hair color [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes.

"He is a skin-changer. He changes his skin; sometimes he is a huge black bear, sometimes he is a great strong black-haired man with huge arms and a great beard."


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 11 2012, 2:24am

Post #313 of 355 (8851 views)
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Beorn [In reply to] Can't Post

The word itself, in Old English, definitely meant "man" or "warrior." However, there are some who theorize that in early Old English (or Anglo-Saxon) the word meant "bear" as does "Bjorn" in Old Norse.

Skin-changers, including those that transform from bear to human, appeared occasionally in Scandinavian myth.

Norse bersekers, who sometimes wore bearskins, were sometimes identified as skin-changers.

That's about all I know.


Sunflower
Valinor

Jul 11 2012, 4:07am

Post #314 of 355 (8853 views)
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My thoughts exactly. [In reply to] Can't Post

Wouldn't want to give *everything* away all at once, now would we? That might be the studio plan.
And that's the way I like it. I'd rather walk in and discover Radagast, Thranduil, The Master et al on the big screen. At some point I will have to learn to block spoilers. Let's see what Comic-Con reveals.

All aside, the storybook looks *fantastic*. beautiful and epic. I've read TH many time the past 3 yrs and sorted out both my intitial "book-vision" of M-e with the Peter's version, ie the look of it. And curious to say, so far the film Hobbit is unexpectedly shaping up to be as epic as its predecessor. that bridge for example. Just as I pictured the doors of Moria being much larger thanthey are in FOTR, just so I picutured the Bridge being much smaller.

Note to the marketing team: can I have this "storybook" as a 2012-2013 calendar please??! I might like it even better than one with film images!


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jul 11 2012, 4:54am

Post #315 of 355 (8775 views)
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: -) [In reply to] Can't Post

Cool

In Reply To
The 'new and improved' wargs look awesome, as does the 'bear' form of Beorn.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jul 11 2012, 5:08am

Post #316 of 355 (8766 views)
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Amen. [In reply to] Can't Post

Wonderfully stated my friend.

In Reply To
(All Wargs are Wolves) but all Wolves are not Wargs.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 11 2012, 6:55am

Post #317 of 355 (8579 views)
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Scared ... / [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 11 2012, 7:40am

Post #318 of 355 (8607 views)
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I'm silently scouring the images for flying moths as well... [In reply to] Can't Post

... however, I feel if they're included at all, they'll be held back as a surprise for the LOTR fans.

I remember how my heart skipped a beat when I saw the moth flutter before Gandalf at the Black Gate. I literally gasped "Eagles" (I hadn't read the book yet so I had no idea what was going to happen!), and sure enough, the next scene showed the Eagles all majestically flying down to the battle Heart



The Plan 9 Interview... in celebration of the 10th anniversary of the release of The Fellowship of the Ring.


ShireHorse
Rohan

Jul 11 2012, 12:16pm

Post #319 of 355 (8501 views)
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I expect, redgiraffe, that Shelob can add a bit more [In reply to] Can't Post

to my response about the nature of the Rohirrim. I was studying both Anglo-Saxon and Old Norse when I first picked up LotR and I was blown away by the Anglo-Saxon nature of the Rohirrim and Tolkien's interpretation of these people.

A few clues: words like Rohirrim and Eorlingas are A-S plurals. Many of the names are A-S in origin. When Theoden is called "Theoden king", this reversal of word order is AS - it would have been "Theoden cyning". Their language is an interpretation of A-S. Their poetry is set out in an identical way with the heavy use of alliteration. The thoughts involving the passing of all things can be found in similar A-S poems. Their behaviour in battles is A-S as when Eomer becomes strange and fey and plunges back into the battle when he thinks Eowyn is dead.

I think that Tolkien was trying to show different "aspects" of the origins of the English: the Elves have a Welsh slant like the Ancient Britons/Celts who lived in England before being driven "into the West". The men of Gondor in their nature and their architecture seem like the Romans who invaded the country. The dwarves are like the Norsemen who settled in the north-east of England. The Rohirrim are the Anglo-Saxons who took over much of England. The hobbits are pre Industrial Revolution country people. I could go on. But this is just my opinion - I've read no scholarly books.

The only way in which they are not typical Anglo Saxons is in their use of horses. The Anglo Saxons were not "horse lords."


dave_lf
Gondor

Jul 11 2012, 12:24pm

Post #320 of 355 (8423 views)
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Mercia specifically [In reply to] Can't Post

Tokien's specialty was the Mercian dialect of Old English, which is what the Rohirrim speak. In addition, the names of several kings of Rohan are the names of actual kings of Mercia. Further, the word "Mercia" comes from the fact that the area was referred to as "the march(es)" ("mearc", pronounced approx "mark"). Except for the horse thing you mention, Rohan is Mercia.


(This post was edited by dave_lf on Jul 11 2012, 12:31pm)


BeornBerserker
Lorien

Jul 11 2012, 12:56pm

Post #321 of 355 (8433 views)
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Beorn has to be extraordinary to even slightly larger than normal bear [In reply to] Can't Post

Beorn is the deciding factor and a force unto himself in a battle where the Elven host of Thranduil, Dain's Dwarves, Thorin & Co., The Great Eagles, Gandalf, and the Men of Laketown were losing to the Goblin horde of the Misty Mountains until his arrival. It was his arrival and his assault that turned tide. He was such a frightening factor, it was destruction of Bolg and his bodyguard that caused dismay to fall on the Goblins. According to the book 3/4 of the whole of the Goblins in the Misty Mountains perished in that battle. It would take something spectacular to creates such dismay on a horde of that size. I just don't see a normal size or slightly larger than normal size bear pulling that off.

"In that last hour, Beorn himself had appeared — no one knew how or from where. He came alone, and in bear’s shape; and he seemed to have grown almost to giant-size in his wrath.
The roar of his voice was like drums and guns; and he tossed wolves and goblins from his path like straws and feathers. He fell upon their rear, and broke like a clap of thunder through the ring. The dwarves were making a stand still about their lords upon a rounded hill. Then Beorn stopped and lifted Thorin, who had fallen pierced with spears, and bore him out of the fray.
Swiftly he returned and his wrath was redoubled, so that nothing could withstand him, and no weapon seemed to bite upon him. He scattered the bodyguard, and pulled down Bolg himself and crushed him. Then dismay fell on the Goblins and they fled in all directions."


dave_lf
Gondor

Jul 11 2012, 1:03pm

Post #322 of 355 (8428 views)
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Size of Beorn [In reply to] Can't Post

I never got the impression that Beorn (man or bear) was supposed to be abnormally large. Big sure, but within the normal range of variation for each species.

He seemed to have grown almost to giant-size. "Seemed to" means he didn't really, "grown" implies he was smaller before, and "almost to giant-size" means he still doesn't even seem that big. :)


BeornBerserker
Lorien

Jul 11 2012, 1:18pm

Post #323 of 355 (8368 views)
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Beorn size [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, if Bilbo who was 3'6" could trot between his legs and not duck for a tunic that came to his knees, that would make him at least a 10 footer. 3 meters(9 feet 9 inches) was used in an article from last year about Persbrandt and based on the scaling of the photos of Beorn's house, his statuette, and his chair from the Production VBlog that all seems to jibe so we can assume PJ is taking his description pretty literally from the book. Most of the artistic interpretations over the years in the various illustrated versions of the Hobbit tend to depict him enormously.

As far as the BoFA, his arrival broke the back of the horde of all the Goblins of the Misty Mountains that were prevailing up to that point. I just don't see a "grizzly bear" doing that. I think the following illustrations should and I hope were a guide post.

http://www-images.theonering.org/torwp/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/beorn.jpg

http://tolkiengateway.net/w/images/thumb/2/23/Matt_Stewart_-_The_Battle_Under_the_Mountain.jpg/397px-Matt_Stewart_-_The_Battle_Under_the_Mountain.jpg


(This post was edited by BeornBerserker on Jul 11 2012, 1:25pm)


dave_lf
Gondor

Jul 11 2012, 1:29pm

Post #324 of 355 (8486 views)
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Heroes [In reply to] Can't Post

The goblin host is also dismayed by the sudden appearance of Thorin and his 12 companions. Tolkien's world is one in which individual heroes can hold their own against entire hosts of extras. It's like he anticipated the movie and videogame industries by a couple decades. :)

You have a point with the tunic thing, though.


(This post was edited by dave_lf on Jul 11 2012, 1:30pm)


BeornBerserker
Lorien

Jul 11 2012, 2:03pm

Post #325 of 355 (8466 views)
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Thorin & co. attack was quick and crumbled when he reached Bolg's bodyguard [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin's charge while heroic was a momentary event in the battle that soon turned badly against him. His presence and he and his company outfitted in the best arms and armor of all of Erebor certainly created a fierce charge and heroic but short lived. Beorn's assault was so fierce he scattered the Goblin army. I concede how subjective the imagery that the description of that battle can create and I am sure there are 1000 visual interpretations one could create.

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