N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Oct 15 2007, 9:32pm
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**LotR Discussion: The Table of Contents**
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These are the 62 chapters of the main text of LotR, broken into their 236 constituent words; numbers in parentheses indicate words which are repeated:
A (5), And (4), At, Barrow-Downs, Battle, Black (2), Bombadil, Boromir, Bound, Breaking, Bridge, Choices, Cirith (2), Closed, Company (2), Conspiracy, Cormallen, Council, Cross-roads, Cut, Dark (2), Debate, Deep, Denethor, Departure, Doom, Elrond, Farewell, Fellowship, Field, Fields, Flight, Flotsam, Fog, Forbidden, Ford, Forest, Galadriel, Gate (2), Goes, Golden, Gondor, Great, Grey (2), Hall, Havens, Healing, Helm's, Herbs, Homeward, House, Houses, In (3), Is (2), Isengard, Jetsam, Journey (2), Khazad-dûm, King (2), Knife, Lair, Land, Last, Long-expected, Lórien, Lothlórien, Many (2), Marshes, Master, Meetings, Minas, Mirror, Mount, Mushrooms, Muster, Of (26), Old, On (2), Opens, Palantír, Partings, Party, Passage, Passing, Past, Pelennor, Pony, Pool, Prancing, Pyre, Rabbit, Ride, Rider, Riders, Ring, River, Road, Rohan (2), Rohirrim, Samwise, Saruman, Scouring, Shadow (2), Shelob's, Shire, Short, Siege, Sign, Sméagol, South, Stairs, Steward, Stewed, Strider, Taming, The (56), Three, Tirith, To (5), Tom, Tower, Treebeard, Ungol (2), Unmasked, Uruk-Hai, Voice, West, White, Window
Any surprises, when you look at the names this way? Curious juxtapositions? Words you never realized were repeated before? Is there a tone (or tones) that these words collectively convey? Are there any surprising omissions? (For example, whose names are not mentioned?)
Here’s another way of looking at the Table of Contents, alphabetically by title (skipping initial articles):
At the Sign of The Prancing Pony, Battle of the Pelennor Fields, Black Gate is Closed, Black Gate Opens, Breaking of the Fellowship, Bridge of Khazad-dûm, Choices of Master Samwise, Conspiracy Unmasked, Council of Elrond, Departure of Boromir, Farewell to Lórien, Field of Cormallen, Flight to the Ford, Flotsam and Jetsam, Fog on the Barrow-Downs, Forbidden Pool, Great River, Grey Havens, Helm's Deep, Homeward Bound, Houses of Healing, In the House of Tom Bombadil, Journey in the Dark, Journey to the Cross-roads, King of the Golden Hall, Knife in the Dark, Land of Shadow, Last Debate, Long-expected Party, Lothlórien, Many Meetings, Many Partings, Minas Tirith, Mirror of Galadriel, Mount Doom, Muster of Rohan, Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit, Old Forest, Palantír, Passage of the Marshes, Passing of the Grey Company, Pyre of Denethor, Ride of the Rohirrim, Riders of Rohan, Ring Goes South, Road to Isengard, Scouring of the Shire, Shadow of the Past, Shelob's Lair, A Short Cut to Mushrooms, Siege of Gondor, Stairs of Cirith Ungol, Steward and the King, Strider, Taming of Sméagol, Three is Company, Tower of Cirith Ungol, Treebeard, Uruk-Hai, Voice of Saruman, White Rider, Window on the West
Viewed this way, certain chapters might appear to be intended as complementary pairs. Pick one of these pairs: how are its two chapters alike or different?
Did you use the Table of Contents during your first reading? Does anyone? Who is it meant for? If you looked at it, what was your impression? Which title was the most intriguing? Which one now seems the most disappointing? The most surprising?
How do these titles compare to those in The Hobbit? Those are:
A (3), An, And (3), At, Barrels, Bond, Burst, Clouds (2), Dark, Doorstep, Fire (2), Flies, Frying-pan, Gathering, Hill (2), Home, In (2), Information, Inside, Into, Journey, Last, Lodgings, Mutton, Night, Not, Of (3), On, Out (2), Over, Party, Queer, Rest, Return, Riddles, Roast, Short, Spiders, Stage, The (9), Thief, Under, Unexpected, Warm, Water, Welcome
Or:
Barrels Out of Bond, Clouds Burst, Fire and Water, Flies and Spiders, Gathering of the Clouds, Inside Information, Last Stage, Not at Home, On the Doorstep, Out of the Frying-pan into the Fire, Over Hill and Under Hill, Queer Lodgings, Return Journey, Riddles in the Dark, Roast Mutton, Short Rest, Thief in the Night, Unexpected Party, Warm Welcome
In addition to the chapter titles, there are the volume titles, and the name of the entire tale. What does “The Lord of the Rings” say to you as a first-time reader, and now? What about the volume titles, “The Fellowship of the Ring”, “The Two Towers”, and “The Return of the King”. How do they compare to Tolkien’s earlier suggestion, of “The Shadow Grows”, “The Ring in the Shadow”, and “The War of the Ring”? Or his later suggestion, of “The Return of the Shadow”, “The Shadow Lengthens” and “The Return of the King”?
I take these titles from Christina Scull and Wayne Hammond’s The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide, by the way, as I do also for the titles that Tolkien considered for the six books, before it was certain the whole would be divided into three volumes. These are two options he considered:
I. The Ring Sets Out
II. The Ring Goes South
III. The Treason of Isengard
IV. The Ring Goes East
V. The War of the Ring
VI. The End of the Third Age
I. The First Journey
II. The Journey of the Nine Companions
III. The Treason of Isengard
IV. The Journey of the Ring-bearers
V. The War of the Ring
VI. The End of the Third Age
Which of these do you prefer? If you were in charge of publishing The Lord of the Rings, in three or six volumes (plus appendices), how would you title the parts?
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Milady
Ossiriand
Oct 15 2007, 11:21pm
Post #2 of 21
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Looking at the separate words makes me fully appreciate just how long this trilogy is; I know the words are broken down and so of course there are more of them, but it gives light to just how much effort the writing would have taken.
I've always found it amusing that "The Black Gate is Closed" is later followed by a chapter entitled "The Black Gate Opens," and it does seem to have some sort of meaning; well, of course it does, as so very few Tolkien-related things don't.
Also, "Scouring of the Shire" and "Shadow of the Past" catch my glance just now; I believe Sam has a line that says, "It comes home to you, as they say; because it is home, and you remember it before it was all ruined." Saruman's workings have really hurt the Shire at this point, and Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin do remember it before it was all ruined, so in a way when they see everything that happened to their home it is a 'shadow of the past,' because the Shire is now reduced to a tiny memory of what it once was.
Excellent post, I found it very intriguing that you thought to organize the chapters by word and alphabet, I never would have thought of that!
Middle-Earth stands on the brink of destruction.
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Beren IV
Mithlond
Oct 15 2007, 11:28pm
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the titling of the books I think is very nice. I would sort of like to match them to the corresponding titles in HoME: The Return of the Shadow (Book I), the Treason of Isengard (Book III), the War of the Ring (Book V), and Sauron Defeated (Book VI).
Once a paleontologist, now a botanist, will be a paleobotanist
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Oct 16 2007, 4:15am
Post #4 of 21
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made use of four of the titles earlier proposed for books or volumes of LotR (including "The End of the Third Age" to cover the first third of the omnibus title, Sauron Defeated, which also incorporates the unrelated "Notion Club Papers" material). I was daunted by HoMe as it appeared (while I was in my teens and early twenties) -- staring confusedly at the dense texts in the bookstore, but the titles at least got me to take those first looks.
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elentari3018
Nargothrond
Oct 16 2007, 5:15am
Post #5 of 21
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This may or may not be related...
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But i remember reading somewhere (maybe Tom Shippey's Author of the Century) that the chapters are all organized symmetrically in terms of an almost equal number of chapters in each Book. Furthermore, we always see our heroes in danger but then have a sanctuary in which to rest in (Tom Bombadil's home in Book 1, Lothlorien with Galadriel and Celeborn in Book 2, Fangorn for Merry and Pippin in Book 3, Forbidden Pool for Frodo and Sam in Book 4...). Also it seems that with every adventure that there is, there is a rest and a meeting of someone unexpected.
For the Hobbit, you can also see that Bilbo gets to rest in Rivendell and the time in Laketown were respites to a long journey full of danger.
"By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" ~Frodo
"And then Gandalf arose and bid all men rise, and they rose, and he said: 'Here is a last hail ere the feast endeth. Last but not least. For I name now those who shall not be forgotten and without whose valour nought else that was done would have availed; and I name before you all Frodo of the Shire and Samwise his servant. And the bards and the minstrels should give them new names: Bronwe athan Harthad and Harthad Uluithiad , Endurance beyond Hope and Hope Unquenchable.." ~Gandalf, The End of the Third Age , from The History of Middle Earth series
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Oct 16 2007, 5:23am
Post #6 of 21
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Be sure to bring up those ideas again...
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as we reach those possibly-parallel chapters you've identified. I think you could say a good deal more on this subject: see where it leads you!
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Curious
Gondolin
Oct 16 2007, 9:56am
Post #7 of 21
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Note the parallels between Books I, II, and IV.
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Those who have read the book and are familiar with the chapters can see a parallel structure in these three "journey" chapters, and that is even more apparent when we see Tolkien's names for these three books -- either The Ring Sets Out, The Ring Goes South, and The Ring Goes East or The First Journey, The Journey of the Nine Companions, and The Journey of the Ring-bearers. I also see some parallels between Book VI, The End of the Third Age, and the other three "journey" books, even though in the case of Book VI the first part of the journey is in Mordor, and the last part is the return home.
There's also some similarity between Books III and V, or The Treason of Isengard and The War of the Ring, as Tolkien named them. Both of those chapters jump around in place and time, and both focus on war, with the war with Saruman a prelude to the greater war with Sauron.
Of course those who have not read the book will not see these parallels, and probably will not use the Table of Contents at all. I think first-time readers may simply be impressed by the sheer number of chapters, and perhaps intrigued by the chapter titles.
I love Tolkien's titles. I find them intriguing without being too revealing. These days, I also use the Table of Contents to find quotes for the Reading Room, and to find the chapter I need to cite for those quotes.
I wonder if we would refer to the Fellowship so much if Tolkien had not named the first volume The Fellowship of the Ring, for in the text he usually refers to it as the Company, and in the book titles he considered he referred to the Nine Companions. When entitling the first of three volumes he could not go with the Nine Companions because in Book I it does not grow to nine. So he went with the Fellowship, and now that is the default title for the Nine Companions.
Tolkien was never satisfied with his title for the second volume, The Two Towers, because even he wasn't sure which two towers that meant. And he wasn't satisfied with the title for the third volume because he worried that The Return of the King gave away too much. But really, did anyone ever doubt that Aragorn would regain his throne?
If I were publishing LotR I would go with the six book titles over the three volume titles, even if I published the book in three volumes. There's no reason a book published in three volumes must have three titles, and it give the false impression that this is a trilogy. As for the six book titles Tolkien considered, I like both sets of choices, with a slight preference for the "journey" titles over the "ring" titles just because I like the incorporation of the Nine Companions and the Ring-bearers into the titles.
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Darkstone
Elvenhome
Oct 16 2007, 4:04pm
Post #8 of 21
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Your favorite Sesame Street character was The Count, wasn't it?
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Any surprises, when you look at the names this way?
According to the Guinness Book of World Records, the commonest word in written English is "the," followed by: of, and, to, a, in, that, is, I, it, for, as.
Comparing with Tolkien we get:
The (56)
Of (26)
A (5)
To (5)
And (4)
In (3)
Is (along with a bunch of others) (2)
(The ten most common words in spoken English are: I, the, and, to, of, a, you, that, in, it.)
According to “Frequency Analysis of English Vocabulary and Grammar: Based on the LOB [Lancaster-Oslo, Bergen] Corpus” by Stig Johansson and Knut Hofland:
The top ten most common nouns are: time, person, year, way, day, thing, man, world, life, hand.
(Tolkien uses none of them.)
The top ten verbs are: be, have, do, say, get, make, go, know, take, see
(Tolkien uses a form of “be” twice (“is”) and a form of “go” once (“goes”).)
And the top ten adjectives are: good, new, first, last, long, great, little, own, other, old.
(Tolkien uses “last” and “old” once, and “long” once in “”long-expected”.)
Now from the OED the most common initial letter is S, followed at some distance in decreasing order by P, C, D, M, and A.
For Tolkien:
(number of different words/number of total words)
a (3/10)
b (8/9)
c (9/11)
d (6/7)
e (1/1)
f (10/10)
g (7/9)
h (8/8)
i (3/6)
j (2/3)
k (3/4)
l (6/6)
m (9/10)
n (0/0)
o (4/30)
p (11/11)
r (9/10)
s (15/16)
t (8/67)
u (3/4)
v (1/1)
w (3/3)
x (0,0)
y (0,0)
z (0,0)
Thus Tolkien’s order of total of different words:
s, p, f, c, m, r, b, h, t.
And Tolkien’s order of total of total words:
t, o, s, c, p, a, f, m.
They sort of match up with OED’s S, P, C, D, M, A except that Tolkien short-changes the letter D. That omission may be due to the influence of Icelandic.
As for the number of common nouns, proper nouns, gerunds, substantive nouns, insubstantive nouns, transitive verbs, intransitive verbs, and…. Oh the heck with it, you win!
Curious juxtapositions?
Like you said, a lot of pairs.
Is there a tone (or tones) that these words collectively convey?
It seems mostly things, places, and actions.
Are there any surprising omissions?
There’s no insubtantive nouns. Could this be Tolkien studiously avoiding something?
(For example, whose names are not mentioned?)
Strange for a hobbito-centric work, Sam is the only hobbit who is mentioned. And many argue Sam is the real hero.
Viewed this way, certain chapters might appear to be intended as complementary pairs. Pick one of these pairs: how are its two chapters alike or different?
I like the bookends of Many Meetings and Many Partings.
Did you use the Table of Contents during your first reading?
Nope.
Does anyone?
Sure. Especially if it’s a hardback without a jacket.
Who is it meant for?
First time readers who want to get a sense of the framework of a book’s content and get a preview of the coming events in the story. Also people who’ve already read the book who are looking for a specific passage.
If you looked at it, what was your impression?
Where’s Bilbo?
Which title was the most intriguing?
Passing of the Grey Company
Which one now seems the most disappointing?
Departure of Boromir,
The most surprising?
Choices of Master Samwise
How do these titles compare to those in The Hobbit?
The titles in LOTR seem more specific. The titles in The Hobbit seem more modern (Inside Information), more colloquial (Out of the Frying-pan into the Fire), often more comfortable and homey (Roast Mutton, Warm Welcome), and definitely Edwardian (Queer Lodgings). Riddles in the Dark seems the most ominous.
What does “The Lord of the Rings” say to you as a first-time reader,
I wonder who is The Lord of the Rings?
and now?
I wonder who is The Lord of the Rings?
What about the volume titles, “The Fellowship of the Ring”, “The Two Towers”, and “The Return of the King”.
I like them. People complain about the ambiguousness of "The Two Tower", but what about the ambiguousness of "The Lord of the Rings"?
How do they compare to Tolkien’s earlier suggestion, of “The Shadow Grows”, “The Ring in the Shadow”, and “The War of the Ring”?
I’m reminded of Edison Lighthouse's Rosemary:
“Love grows,
Where the ring’s shadow goes
And nobody knows,
Like Frodo.”
Or his later suggestion, of “The Return of the Shadow”, “The Shadow Lengthens” and “The Return of the King”?
He does seem determined to use the word “Shadow”. Even in the sequel.
These are two options he considered:…
Which of these do you prefer?
No preference.
If you were in charge of publishing The Lord of the Rings, in three or six volumes (plus appendices), how would you title the parts?
I. Hobbits Ahoy
II. Big Folk, Small Folk, Dwarf Folk, Elf Folk.
III. Saruman the Wienie
IV. The Devil’s Triangle
V. Where It All Hits the Fan!
VI. The Long, Long, Really Long Goodbye
VII. Stuff to Make Your Eyes Glaze Over
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The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
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weaver
Gondolin
Oct 16 2007, 9:42pm
Post #9 of 21
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well, mine was Cookie Monster...
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Which explains why there are crumbs in my book on the Table of Contents page. I think that is the only thing NEB overlooked in structuring this opening week discussion...
Seriously, I rather like the titles -- they read like lines in a poem to me, if you just read them as a list. Even in chapter titles, Tolkien's style shines through.
In terms of characters, many of the main characters are referred to directly or indirectly. Frodo, Bilbo, Legolas, Gimli and Eowyn are the only ones not represented, from what I can tell, nor the Nazgul. Not sure that means anything, though it is kind of surprising that Frodo does not merit a chapter title tied to him.
I am impressed by how many things you found to talk about this week! I bow to the master....!
Weaver
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Riel
Lindon
Oct 17 2007, 5:36pm
Post #10 of 21
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Interesting way to look at it, NEB!
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I never would have thought to organize the table of contents this way. good job.  I think the table of contents is especially good for first-time readers, because you can go back and see where you are in the story as a whole--where you've been, where you are, and where you will be. Although sometimes it's good to go back and look at it even if you've already read the books, just to remind yourself.  I love the titles of the chapters, because most of them are somewhat intriguing. Example: when you see the chapter "The Choices of Master Samwise," of course you're wondering what choices is he going to make? hehe.
As for curious juxtapositions, i thought it was kind of cool that Havens and Healing are right next to eachother. There were also a couple that i thought were funny: Rabbit and Ride ("Rabbit-Ride"?  ) and Steward and Stewed (a "Stewed Steward"? LOL)
ROFL, Darkstone! I love your names for the books. I laughed so hard! My favorite is "Saruman the Weinie."  hehehe
namarie,
Riel
"Even the smallest person can change the course of the future."
~Galadriel
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Oct 17 2007, 6:03pm
Post #11 of 21
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*Discussion will continue this evening*
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Sorry for the continued delay and no new discussion posts since Monday night --it's been a bit hectic here-- but the next installments will be up this evening. Meantime, thanks everyone for the great response so far!
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entmaiden
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Oct 17 2007, 9:39pm
Post #12 of 21
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Translation: NEB's been watching the baseball playoffs
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so he hasn't been able to pull together the discussion AND root for the Tribe at the same time. But the Indians have the night off tonight, so the discussion can get back on track. 
Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver.
`Are these magic cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.
`I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves.
NARF since 1974.
Balin Bows
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weaver
Gondolin
Oct 17 2007, 9:48pm
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We are suffering from competing fan interests, but since I am a former Clevelander and still a fan, that's okay in this case!
Weaver
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Oct 18 2007, 4:44am
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It's not that I didn't hear the (excellent) game, but the major cause of the delay was a surfeit of real life, compounded by losing the document in which I had been preparing my posts for this week.
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Curious
Gondolin
Oct 18 2007, 7:01am
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I hate losing documents.
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Oct 19 2007, 2:48am
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Three characters? Three locations?
Great comments on the word and letter frequency -- thanks!
(My favorite character was Grover.)
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Oct 19 2007, 2:53am
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Now that is interesting. I wonder if something can be made of it?
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Riel
Lindon
Oct 19 2007, 4:09am
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ROFL...I'm sure something COULD be made of it...
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I thought it was quite hilarious though. lol you know, it could be a connection to the steward Denethor, except that he was actually....fried? LOL wow, ok that was really bad. I'm just gonna shut up while I'm ahead.
"Even the smallest person can change the course of the future."
~Galadriel
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Oct 19 2007, 4:22am
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Well, have a look at the text of "Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit", and then...
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at that for "The Siege of Gondor". The titles may mean nothing, yet may lead us to other ideas: I was struck by Sam's answer to Frodo's question: "What have you stewed?" And it does remind me of something that Denethor says. I do wish the old boards were accessible, as I'd like to see if FarFromHome touched on the connection in her discussion back in January.
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Kethry
Menegroth
Oct 19 2007, 10:35pm
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62 chapters. That seems rather mind-boggling. I knew that the book was long, but that really puts it into perspective. There aren’t many books that I read that list the chapters, or even have titles. And until these questions, I don’t think that I thought much about the chapter titles. Other than what others have said, to find a quote or a particular place in the story.
Any surprises, when you look at the names this way? Curious juxtapositions? Words you never realized were repeated before? Is there a tone (or tones) that these words collectively convey? Are there any surprising omissions? (For example, whose names are not mentioned?)
At first thought, I was rather surprised that “Ring” was used only once. But thinking about how Frodo isn’t ever mentioned, and Gandalf and Aragorn are mentioned only by nicknames, it isn’t so very surprising. After all, there are so many places and things and people that are important to this story, it’s not so very strange that so many of those different places and things and people are mentioned in the chapter titles. And it’s a little odd to have “Rabbit” in the middle of “Pyre” and “Ride”. It seems out of place, an innocent little word in the middle of madness and grimness.
Oh, and I don’t think that I ever realized that Cirith Ungol has two chapters. I suppose that with them in different books, and so much else happening between them, it’s easier to not notice it.
Did you use the Table of Contents during your first reading? Does anyone? Who is it meant for? If you looked at it, what was your impression? Which title was the most intriguing? Which one now seems the most disappointing? The most surprising?
I don’t think that I looked at the Table of Contents for a long time. I had noticed the chapter titles, but I probably skipped the right to the beginning of the first chapter, and not really looked at what came before.
How do these titles compare to those in The Hobbit?
The titles in The Hobbit are a bit simpler, I guess, and fitting for a simpler story. I do remember when in 8th grade, when reading it for a class project, the teacher asked about “Over Hill and Under Hill” and what that title could possibly mean. I had already devoured the book, while the rest of the class was reading it a chapter at a time. I guess I got impatient with no one else seeming to have read it, so I answered the question. (I wasn’t much for class participation.) My English teacher recognized from my answer that I had already read the chapter, and was quite surprised when I told her that I had already finished it. And that story really has nothing to do with anything, but I’ll share it nonetheless.
A couple more random thoughts: Warm Water Welcome? Makes me want a bath. And I cannot recall what happens in a few of those chapters. I think I’d be able to figure it out if they were in order, but just trying to go from memory, I can’t.
As for the six volume titles, I rather like the second set, but I don’t quite like “The First Journey”, so would retain the title from the first set. Meaning, I like:
I. The Ring Sets Out
II. The Journey of the Nine Companions
III. The Treason of Isengard
IV. The Journey of the Ring-bearers
V. The War of the Ring
VI. The End of the Third Age
But, in the end, I like just the three titles we have now. It’s really neat to know the other titles that he thought of, but I like how it stands. But I do really like Darkstone’s suggestions, they made me laugh out loud. Though Curious does have a point about naming all six books, whether in one volume or in three. I’ve read much shorter novels that divide the book into multiple parts. So there really is no good reason to not have included all of the book titles the first time. Although who’s to say that that might have delayed publication even more as he debated back and forth over the merits of each set of titles.
"Any kind of plan where you lose your hat... is a bad plan."
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
May 31 2009, 7:04am
Post #21 of 21
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Just remembered that you'd already discussed the TOC
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...as a birthday gift on Main when the new boards were still quite new.
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