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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Jun 13 2012, 11:32am
Post #1 of 26
(1729 views)
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Aspect Ratio of The Hobbit
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I'm not sure if anyone is really concerned about this, but it's not been talked about so I thought I'd give some input.
If you're not sure what "Aspect Ratio" is it's fairly simple, I'm talking about the shape of the image - those black bars at the top and bottom of your screen when you watch LotR on your TV. There are a few different aspect ratios out there but the ones of interest here are the standard cinema ratio (usually about 2.35:1), the IMAX ratio (around 1.78:1) and the 16:9 HDTV aspect ratio (1.77:1).
When James Cameron released Avatar, the aspect ratio was dependent on whether you were viewing in 3D or 2D http://www.firstshowing.net/...ame-size-everywhere/ 2D showings also varied in some cinemas and I'm pretty sure this will be the case with The Hobbit (it would explain their choice of shooting at 5K and projecting at 4K - the image simply has to be cropped to suit the ratio of the cinema). When Avatar came out on Blu-Ray it was in a 1.77:1 ratio, the same ratio as a HDTV and somewhere between the Imax and standard cinema ratios. I loved this choice, simply because it made the quality of the image really pop. But I wonder how it will effect the feel of The Hobbit. Part of me wants to see The Hobbit filling my screen in a crisp lossless image, but part of still wants that epic feel of the black bars, if only for continuity with the trilogy. It's not a huge concern, obviously, but I do wonder whether the DVD or Blu-Ray or 3D Blu-Ray or 4K Blu-ray ratios will differ at all. I also wonder whether the DVD will be in 24FPS.
Any thoughts? (sorry if there are typos, my spell-checker isn't working and I rely on that thing far more than I should  )
"...For if joyful is the fountain that rises in the sun, its springs are in the wells of sorrow unfathomed at the foundations of the Earth"
(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Jun 13 2012, 11:33am)
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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor
Jun 13 2012, 2:25pm
Post #2 of 26
(863 views)
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Wants to see these films with the black bars on top and bottom.
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Jun 13 2012, 4:30pm
Post #4 of 26
(823 views)
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Then prepare to be disappoint!!
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Seriously, though. the Blu-ray at least probably won't have those black bars. I called it first, so don't be surprised next year when everyone's complaining that they're not there
I also hope I'm wrong, though. They're very annoying and they burn my screen but for some reason I'll miss them.
"...For if joyful is the fountain that rises in the sun, its springs are in the wells of sorrow unfathomed at the foundations of the Earth"
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Jun 13 2012, 5:40pm
Post #6 of 26
(770 views)
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I have a very sensitive plasma...
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It's not technically "burn-in" it's image retention, but if I watch, say LotR then when I go back to normal TV the bars are still visible for a few hours afterwards  same thing happens with game HUDs, which is annoying because I play a lot of games lol.
"...For if joyful is the fountain that rises in the sun, its springs are in the wells of sorrow unfathomed at the foundations of the Earth"
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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor
Jun 13 2012, 5:46pm
Post #7 of 26
(767 views)
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Are you saying that no version of the films on DVD will have the bars? I can't imagine that. There are simply too many people that prefer to watch their films in that aspect ratio. Particularly for epics.
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Jun 13 2012, 5:51pm
Post #8 of 26
(763 views)
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I guess it's too early to say, but it's possible... I'd say likely, but that might be over-stating //
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"...For if joyful is the fountain that rises in the sun, its springs are in the wells of sorrow unfathomed at the foundations of the Earth"
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Jun 13 2012, 5:53pm
Post #9 of 26
(758 views)
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Might be worth mentioning King Kong was also released in multiple aspect ratios...
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The DVD and Blu-ray both have the bars, though. But when it's shown on TV it fills the screen 
"...For if joyful is the fountain that rises in the sun, its springs are in the wells of sorrow unfathomed at the foundations of the Earth"
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Chopsta123
Gondor
Jun 13 2012, 6:04pm
Post #10 of 26
(746 views)
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might have to do with the settings of your TV?
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you can usually decide if you want the bars to be there or that the TV zooms in, which case the sides of the film get cut off.
http://ce-games.forumotion.com/
The forum for the LOTR Character Elimination Game!
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Arandir
Gondor
Jun 13 2012, 6:05pm
Post #11 of 26
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If there are no bars, we'll have to attach some scotch tape on the TV itself! //
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Tigero
Rivendell
Jun 13 2012, 6:38pm
Post #12 of 26
(749 views)
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Pay attention to production videos
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In for example #4 you can see the white cropmarks in the screens, they dont look like 9:16 to me (too bad) Only thing i give respect to Avatar for in addition for the beautiful graphics is 9:16 aspect ratio. LOTR was shot to film, so it was completely understandable they used anamorphic lenses but i don't see what this Hobbit thing is about.
IMO 9:16 fits better to huge mountains and character shots, but not so much to the amazing, vast landscapes of LOTR so widescreen worked better in it.
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Arandir
Gondor
Jun 13 2012, 6:43pm
Post #13 of 26
(729 views)
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It's actually 16:9 not 9:16 ... just to clarify :) //
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Tigero
Rivendell
Jun 13 2012, 6:57pm
Post #14 of 26
(729 views)
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you can usually decide if you want the bars to be there or that the TV zooms in, which case the sides of the film get cut off.
And then you totally ruin the quality...
Btw QuackingTroll what plasma do you have? I have plasma too and i think they are very underrated! Mine is Samsung PS59D555 (59 inch) and i have watched complete marathon of extended editions without burn-in! Maybe your screen is still new and hasn't reached it's final grayness level? Also, you should activate pixel moving (or whatever it is) that moves the material in y and/or x dirs from time to time
My plasma is sorta strange, on TV broadcast or movie, the black level is sorta crappy, but if you turn info screen on, it has darker black than the video you watching... And it doesn't seem to be any of the settings (HDMI-black, MotionLight(or something like that)) Also, when you turn it on in a dark room the screen suddenly illuminates just a bit, this stuff may have something to do with like preload current to the cells or whatever that will make motion more smooth, but i don't get it why you can't turn it off. But otherwise very good plasma, my parents are idiots and won't turn it off when not watching, so it has been on way more than it should, yet contrast is OK+, acceptable gradients, audio is pretty superb for built in speakers and it doesn't buzz anymore. Even tho hues are sorta off, watching LOTR from it is pure eyegasm.
It's like these plasmas have a mind of their own sometimes... :D
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Jun 13 2012, 7:05pm
Post #15 of 26
(743 views)
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They still need the crop-marks because both ratios have to be considered...
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It's crazy to think that they can frame every shot to work in both ratios, but they've done it for a few movies and The Hobbit's 5K to 4K cropping kinda implies that they're doing it for this. I'm a huge fan of 16:9 too, I just think it's a better looking ratio, and it more accurately replicates the ratio of human vision. I also think it's awesome that The Hobbit will fill the IMAX screen, but I'm not sure if it's right for the Blu-ray or not... I'm torn between a bigger picture and a nostalgic "cinema" look, but with 48fps I think maybe 16:9 would be better?
"...For if joyful is the fountain that rises in the sun, its springs are in the wells of sorrow unfathomed at the foundations of the Earth"
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Tigero
Rivendell
Jun 13 2012, 7:12pm
Post #16 of 26
(732 views)
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I think the cropmarks are the final aspect ratio
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because that's what they use to frame the shot with, the 'frame' of the frame is just to give the operators a clue of what are they capturing next and also for digital stabilization. Btw. LOTR would have needed some stabilization from time to time, but there's just no way beating the film-look on a video, digital stuff is just too 'jumpy'. Wouldn't it be awesome if Hobbit was filmed with IMAX 3D cameras? oh man that would be awesome... and expensive...
And yeah, _16:9_ is more natural than widescreen, and it's just nicer to look 'around' the screen than to move your focus always sideways. 16:9 just feels more real.
(This post was edited by Tigero on Jun 13 2012, 7:15pm)
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Jun 13 2012, 7:14pm
Post #17 of 26
(720 views)
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I have a Samsung too, it's a PS50C7000 I think in America it's PN50C8000 or something? It's 3D and I love it! I've had it 2 years and it's always had this IR problem, I think it's getting worse and I think it's a faulty panel it's such a shame because it lets down an otherwise perfect picture. I'm aware of all the anti burn-in stuff, but it's not much use cause I get IR within a few seconds of something being displayed. It's put me off plasma a bit, but I still trust Samsung, so might go for one of their LEDs in the future.
59 inches... and I thought mine was big **TV envy**
"...For if joyful is the fountain that rises in the sun, its springs are in the wells of sorrow unfathomed at the foundations of the Earth"
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Tigero
Rivendell
Jun 13 2012, 7:24pm
Post #18 of 26
(719 views)
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Ain't too big anymore and 32 feels like a computer display. 
Mine has also 3D, and i have tried it on games (GT5, Batman: Arkham City) and it best worked on Batman (Actually really good!) I have a slight bleed problem, but it might be the glasses, they are cheapest model. But I can't judge it before i have watched 3D movies with new battery in the glasses. That 2D-3D conversion stuff works way better than it should, and i don't have any bleed when using it, so maybe it's from the game (i really need to test with a 3D movie)
Btw. don't bother buying dedicated bluray players, use PS3, that thing does better than highest-end players can do but more!
Btw. Btw. Buying cheapish plasmas is like lottery, sometimes they are pure crap, but sometimes they work really well! (My screen has only 2 dead subpixels (not even 1 full!)) Too bad the warranties are a rip off
Btw.Btw.Btw. should we create a thread on screens to OT?
(This post was edited by Tigero on Jun 13 2012, 7:26pm)
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Jun 13 2012, 7:36pm
Post #19 of 26
(705 views)
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I'd like to say my TV was cheapish, but in reality I blew £1500 of my student loan on it, along with £500 for a surround-sound blu-ray player (HT-C5500). I do own PS3 and agree it's far superior to standard players, my PS3 just got the yellow light of death yesterday which has broken my heart as I just got War in the North in the mail this morning
"...For if joyful is the fountain that rises in the sun, its springs are in the wells of sorrow unfathomed at the foundations of the Earth"
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Kendalf
Rohan
Jun 13 2012, 10:01pm
Post #20 of 26
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I think the biggest clue so far is the trailer, isn't it? It's in 2.35:1 so I'd guess that the 2D screenings at least are going to be in that ratio (and that the subsequent DVDs are, too).
Obviously the IMAX screenings will be in the IMAX ratio (!) but whether the normal 3D screenings are going to retain the 2D's 2.35:1 or expand the image to 1.85:1 is anyone's guess.
Like a few posters here, I'm torn. I love the epic nature of 2.35:1 (and more - Ben Hur's 2.76:1 [I think] is beautiful) but really enjoy the fact that Cameron, for example, chose to use the larger 1.85:1 for the Avatar blu-ray: it looks absolutely gorgeous filling my full screen. And I wouldn't take continuity into account: the decision to film The Hobbit at 48fps at 5K in 3D as well as the appalling (in places) colour-grading on the FotR blu-ray (which shatters continuity with TT and RotK) suggest that a uniform look to the five films isn't at the forefront of Jackson's mind...
The 2D blu-rays at 2.35:1 and the 3D blu-rays at 1.85:1. That's my prediction, for what it's worth!
PS Hmm. Maybe I mean 1.77:1 rather than 1.85:1?
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JWPlatt
Grey Havens
Jun 14 2012, 3:20am
Post #21 of 26
(670 views)
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Good to see you return for a visit, Kendalf. Still no tint comments from Jackson. It actually feels like they are in hiding from the issue.
I'm a little mystified by the desire for a "black bar" anywhere. It actually sounds like if a film is released at the same ratio as your HD TV - generally 16:9 - people are saying they'd tape a black bar to the top and bottom of their screen to achieve a letterbox "film" effect. Am I reading this wrong? Because it's bizarre.
Similarly, if the horizontal image content is the same, it sounds like folks would rather cut off the top and bottom in favor of black bars for the cinematic feel rather then fill their screen completely. So if something like Ben Hur were shot at the the same width, what's wrong with also filling the vertical content? Surely I can't be reading these things correctly.
(This post was edited by JWPlatt on Jun 14 2012, 3:21am)
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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor
Jun 14 2012, 4:56am
Post #22 of 26
(654 views)
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I don't think people would want to lose any image
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My guess is that they want the full image, with the black bars on top and bottom. The preference for the bars is, as far as I can tell, nostalgic. It is simply seems more cinematic...
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Moahunter
Rohan
Jun 14 2012, 9:58am
Post #23 of 26
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"Still no tint comments from Jackson. It actually feels like they are in hiding from the issue."
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I think there's more pressing issues occupying PJ's time at present.
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JWPlatt
Grey Havens
Jun 14 2012, 3:48pm
Post #24 of 26
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Everyone has pressing issues in their lives. Nobody is so busy that they can't find a moment to comment.
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Kendalf
Rohan
Jun 15 2012, 8:59am
Post #25 of 26
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Thanks for the welcome, JW, and I have to say I agree fully. It would have taken very little effort and very little time indeed to make an announcement on the issue.
Yes, I intended the various shades of blue and green in the Shire to adopt a uniform shade of teal.
Yes, I intended the interior of Orthanc to be a luminous blue in FotR but remain neutrally white in TT.
Yes, I intended the hobbits eyeballs to be blue as they left Bree and headed into the wild.
Yes, I intended the foliage in the Midgewater Marshes to have an unnatural hue.
Yes, I intended the snow in the sweeping shot of Caradhras to be blue.
Yes, I intended Merry's waistcoat to be orange during Boromir's demise yet still yellow during the flashback in RotK.
It would have been very simple, really. That only took me a minute or so.
Anyway, apologies. The thread's about the aspect ratio of the upcoming films. I think the recently announced Trailer 2 will settle things (at least for the 2D screenings and DVDs), no?
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