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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
SCOD 40: The One Ring in the snow

zarabia
Tol Eressea


May 31 2012, 11:36pm

Post #1 of 21 (805 views)
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SCOD 40: The One Ring in the snow Can't Post


At first I was going to say that with this screen cap, we were going from a character close-up in SCOD 39 to a panorama in 40. But in a way, here we also have a character close-up; the Ring is a character in its own right.


Okay, let’s get started!Smile


Look at the overall shot – what do you think of the composition here?


Is the focus (I don't mean in the literal photographic sense) on the Ring effective? What impression does it give?


This scene – Frodo falling and losing the Ring – is not in the book. Why do you think PJ & co. added it? Do you agree with the addition?


Any other thoughts are welcome!


GoodGuyA
Lorien

May 31 2012, 11:58pm

Post #2 of 21 (353 views)
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Thought you'd pick one that was less standard [In reply to] Can't Post

But I guess there is still some to discuss about this!

Look at the overall shot – what do you think of the composition here?

Look at that mountain range in the background. How could there exist a country that is this picturesque? It seems ludicrous! This is perhaps one of the more famous shots as well because it's so symbolic. The small nature of Frodo and Aragorn, the gigantic stature of Boromir's madness... It's absolutely beautiful. This is a shot you could show someone snooty to prove that LotR is true art.

Is the focus (I don't mean in the literal photographic sense) on the Ring effective? What impression does it give?

Of course it is. The entire scene revolves around it and the division between the various sides of the Fellowship. All ready in such a dire place, they've more and more reason to drift further apart thanks to the Ring. The snow also means something, though I can't figure out what...

This scene – Frodo falling and losing the Ring – is not in the book. Why do you think PJ & co. added it? Do you agree with the addition?

This is one scene that I think no one really questions. It was a perfect piece of character development, and more Sean Bean is never a bad thing. The thematic meaning really dissolves the purist argument here.

Any other thoughts are welcome!


Perhaps one of the true shots in motion that you can definitively say that the doubles look fake. There's not many, thankfully, but you can see the cubbiness of Frodo in this shot.


Defender of Nogrod
Registered User


Jun 1 2012, 2:32am

Post #3 of 21 (316 views)
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These are fun! :) [In reply to] Can't Post

Look at the overall shot – what do you think of the composition here?

Niiiice. ;) It's pretty sweet, with NZ (ma home) in the background hehe. It also does really well at showing the ridiculous distance the fellowship has traveled. You can only imagine the other dangerous moments they had.

Is the focus (I don't mean in the literal photographic sense) on the Ring effective? What impression does it give?

I think it embodies LotR, in a way. Breathtaking scenery, Aragorn, Frodo, the Ring, and also the desperateness of the venture.
As you're looking at the ring, sitting in the snow, you kinda ponder it. As someone (i can't remember who, probably Boromir) says at somepoint, "A wonder that on a thing so small, could rest the entire future of middle-earth."


This scene – Frodo falling and losing the Ring – is not in the book. Why do you think PJ & co. added it? Do you agree with the addition?

More excitement. And as i said in SCOD 39, I'm sure plenty of stuff would have gone on that Frodo wouldn't have bothered to put into writing. Or he forgot them. ;)
The other thing about this scene is that it shows the lengths Aragorn will go to to protect the ring, and Frodo. If you remember, at the end of the scene you see Aragorn sheathing his sword...

Yavanna: "Eru is bountiful, now let thy children beware! For there shall walk a power in the forests whose wrath they will arouse at their peril."

Aule: "Nonetheless they will have need of wood."


sador
Half-elven


Jun 1 2012, 6:28am

Post #4 of 21 (321 views)
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I'm sure such an incident would have benn written ;-) [In reply to] Can't Post

Welcome to TORn, and continue having fun!


Bombadil
Half-elven


Jun 1 2012, 7:12am

Post #5 of 21 (329 views)
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What I remember from EE explainantion.. [In reply to] Can't Post

That wonderful Ring-Maker in Hamilton South Island
Forged a Super-Sized ONE especially Crafted
For this SHOT!

Cause you ARE...absolutely correct in your Comment

THAT the ONE...Is more Powerful than
The Fellowship...

Thus there is .......real fear
in all of our Company

Xoxox bomby


Nuradar
Rohan


Jun 1 2012, 1:14pm

Post #6 of 21 (275 views)
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Love this shot [In reply to] Can't Post

Look at the overall shot – what do you think of the composition here?
Photographically speaking, the shot is very well composed. I know I've gone on and on about the Rule of Thirds in the past, but it applies here. Frodo and Aragorn are one-third away from the left edge, and the ring is one-third away from the right. The space between them is centred. They're also in the bottom third of the frame while the mountains are in the top third - it's text book perfect in that sense. There is symmetry and balance that make this shot very easy to take in and appreciate.

Is the focus (I don't mean in the literal photographic sense) on the Ring effective? What impression does it give?
Yes because, as you say, the ring is a character in itself and that's how PJ treated it. Its focus in this shot serves the whole scene very well. It's a reminder of why they're making this perilous journey and of the power of the ring to corrupt.

This scene – Frodo falling and losing the Ring – is not in the book. Why do you think PJ & co. added it? Do you agree with the addition?
Answered above.

Any other thoughts are welcome!

I like that they made a larger ring for this shot. It makes it look more menacing and makes me feel physically closer to it. I can see it better and therefore it feels more real to me. I wouldn't have felt that if they had used a normal-sized ring.

Thanks zarabia.


Darkstone
Immortal


Jun 1 2012, 2:05pm

Post #7 of 21 (317 views)
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"It's not a strange fate at all that we should suffer so much fear and doubt for so big a thing! So humongous a thing!!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Look at the overall shot – what do you think of the composition here?

Nuradar quite nicely points out the use of the Rule of Thirds. Further, this is an excellent example of the use of balance in composition, where subjects on either side of the composition balance each other. For example, a picture of a large public building with wings on either side and the main building and entrance in the middle is an example of “formal” balance. Everything is perfectly balanced and centered. And boring. However, this shot is composed in “informal” balance, where the unequal nature of the balancing objects inject a dynamic tension in the composition. Indeed, that almost subliminal tension will escalate higher and higher until it is finally released by Aragorn releasing his grip on his sword.

Wonderful subtlety!


Is the focus (I don't mean in the literal photographic sense) on the Ring effective?

Very much so.


What impression does it give?

Note that Frodo and Aragorn appear to be on the edge of a deep valley behind them, perhaps symbolizing the depths they will fall into if they let the ring, already larger and higher than them, gain dominance over them. It neatly presages Galadriel’s “You have your own choice to make, Aragorn…to rise above the height of all your fathers since the days of Elendil...... or to fall into darkness with all that is left of your kin.”


This scene – Frodo falling and losing the Ring – is not in the book. Why do you think PJ & co. added it?

To *show* something that the book *tells*:

'A Ring of Power looks after itself, Frodo. It may slip off treacherously, but its keeper never abandons it. At most he plays with the idea of handing it on to someone else's care – and that only at an early stage, when it first begins to grip. But as far as I know Bilbo alone in history has ever gone beyond playing, and really done it. He needed all my help, too. And even so he would never have just forsaken it, or cast it aside. It was not Gollum, Frodo, but the Ring itself that decided things. The Ring left him.’
'What, just in time to meet Bilbo?' said Frodo. 'Wouldn't an Orc have suited it better?'
'It is no laughing matter,' said Gandalf. 'Not for you. It was the strangest event in the whole history of the Ring so far: Bilbo's arrival just at that time, and putting his hand on it, blindly, in the dark.
'There was more than one power at work, Frodo. The Ring was trying to get back to its master. It had slipped from Isildur's hand and betrayed him; then when a chance came it caught poor Deagol, and he was murdered; and after that Gollum, and it had devoured him. It could make no further use of him: he was too small and mean; and as long as it stayed with him he would never leave his deep pool again. So now, when its master was awake once more and sending out his dark thought from Mirkwood, it abandoned Gollum. Only to be picked up by the most unlikely person imaginable: Bilbo from the Shire!’



Do you agree with the addition?

Seems a pretty vital scene to me.


Any other thoughts are welcome!

Note how forced perspective makes the ring seem larger than Aragorn and Frodo. It threatens to dominate them.

And while it looks large, it’s really quite small, so it sets up Boromir’s own realization of the ambiguity of the matter: “It is a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing. Such a little thing.” Note in the book the original passage is much later, just before Boromir tries to take the ring at Amon Hen:

'Ah! The Ring! ' said Boromir, his eyes lighting. 'The Ring! Is it not a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt for so small a thing? So small a thing! And I have seen it only for an instant in the House of Elrond. Could I not have a sight of it again? '
Frodo looked up. His heart went suddenly cold. He caught the strange gleam in Boromir's eyes, yet his face was still kind and friendly. 'It is best that it should lie hidden,' he answered.
'As you wish. I care not,' said Boromir.


(PJ and Co. even kept the “As you wish. I care not.”)

It’s the ambiguity that is the key. Big is small, good is evil, fair is foul, black is white, the humble are exalted, etc., etc.

As Shakespeare put it, “The art of our necessities is strange/ that can make vile things precious.” (King Lear, Act 3, scene 2).

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”



(This post was edited by Darkstone on Jun 1 2012, 2:06pm)


Finwe
Lorien


Jun 1 2012, 2:11pm

Post #8 of 21 (286 views)
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Only thing I'll add [In reply to] Can't Post

When did Faramir join the Fellowship? At least, that's who the Man in the background appears to most resemble out of all the movie characters.

As three great Jewels they were in form. But not until the End, when Fëanor shall return who perished ere the Sun was made, and sits now in the Halls of Awaiting and comes no more among his kin; not until the Sun passes and the Moon falls, shall it be known of what substance they were made. Like the crystal of diamonds it appeared, and yet was more strong than adamant, so that no violence could mar it or break it within the Kingdom of Arda.


Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Jun 2 2012, 11:22am

Post #9 of 21 (224 views)
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:D love love this pic! [In reply to] Can't Post

Look at the overall shot – what do you think of the composition here?

Perfect. slightly slanted camera, literal focus on ring, woooonderful mountain view in distance :D :D

Is the focus (I don't mean in the literal photographic sense) on the Ring effective? What impression does it give?

It is extremely effective. Ultra-symbolic. The ring is most of the shot, it dominates, and yet it dominates in an alluring way. Deceptive and beautiful. lol.

This scene – Frodo falling and losing the Ring – is not in the book. Why do you think PJ & co. added it? Do you agree with the addition?

yep. yep. yep.

Any other thoughts are welcome!

other than thanking you tremendously for some brilliant caps?? No Wink



Catch it, catch it, catch it! Dropped it... ...
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Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Jun 2 2012, 11:27am

Post #10 of 21 (230 views)
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Darkstone, awesomeness from you as always :D :D [In reply to] Can't Post

Cool


Catch it, catch it, catch it! Dropped it... ...
Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day!


zarabia
Tol Eressea


Jun 3 2012, 5:46am

Post #11 of 21 (211 views)
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Sorry to disappoint :( Thanks for participating anyway:) [In reply to] Can't Post

   

Quote

This is a shot you could show someone snooty to prove that LotR is true art.




Quote

The thematic meaning really dissolves the purist argument here.



I think that's why I love this shot; it proves to the snobs that PJ is more than a hack action/adventure director. It also proves to the "book only" fans that PJ &co. truly had to love, understand and appreciate the books in order to add something that expands on the themes so well.

And yes, I agree that the mask on Elija's double is a bit obvious.


zarabia
Tol Eressea


Jun 3 2012, 5:56am

Post #12 of 21 (196 views)
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It must be nice living in Middle-earth :) [In reply to] Can't Post

   

Quote

It also does really well at showing the ridiculous distance the fellowship has traveled. You can only imagine the other dangerous moments they had.



Yes, especially for someone like me who has a hard time visualizing landscapes even when they are as well described as they are in LOTR. Tolkien mentions the three mountain peaks, and silly me, I picture three peaks all alone. Haha! I forget that peaks are usually a part of a whole range.


Quote
If you remember, at the end of the scene you see Aragorn sheathing his sword...



Yes, you could cut the tension in that scene with a knife...or a swordWink


zarabia
Tol Eressea


Jun 3 2012, 6:01am

Post #13 of 21 (208 views)
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What a thrill it must have been [In reply to] Can't Post

for that ring maker to see his work so prominently featured in this memorable scene. I wonder if he got to keep it or if it's in a vault somewhere.


zarabia
Tol Eressea


Jun 3 2012, 6:17am

Post #14 of 21 (192 views)
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Exactly! [In reply to] Can't Post

   

Quote

I like that they made a larger ring for this shot. It makes it look more menacing and makes me feel physically closer to it. I can see it better and therefore it feels more real to me. I wouldn't have felt that if they had used a normal-sized ring.




And yet it doesn't seem in any way fake. I didn't realize until listening to the commentary Bombadil refered to that it wasn't the same ring we see in all the other shots. And when you consider that they must have had to take the relative texture of the surrounding snow into account, you realize just how tricky a shot it was to accomplish.


zarabia
Tol Eressea


Jun 3 2012, 6:41am

Post #15 of 21 (202 views)
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Wonderful insight as usual, Darkstone! [In reply to] Can't Post

   

Quote

Note that Frodo and Aragorn appear to be on the edge of a deep valley behind them, perhaps symbolizing the depths they will fall into if they let the ring, already larger and higher than them, gain dominance over them. It neatly presages Galadriel’s “You have your own choice to make, Aragorn…to rise above the height of all your fathers since the days of Elendil...... or to fall into darkness with all that is left of your kin.”


I could have watched 100 more times and not have caught that.


Quote

It’s the ambiguity that is the key. Big is small, good is evil, fair is foul, black is white, the humble are exalted, etc., etc.


This reminds me of Bilbo's (?) poem about Aragorn - "Not all who wander are lost..." as well as Frodo saying that he felt that if Strider were an agent of the Dark Lord he would "look fairer but feel fouler. "


zarabia
Tol Eressea


Jun 3 2012, 6:46am

Post #16 of 21 (200 views)
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It does look a bit like him:) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


zarabia
Tol Eressea


Jun 3 2012, 6:54am

Post #17 of 21 (214 views)
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Yes, alluring... [In reply to] Can't Post

Especially set against the pristine snow and dazzlingly blue sky. How could something so pure and beautiful be evil??? It's that ambiguity Darkstone referred to.



Quote

other than thanking you tremendously for some brilliant caps?? No Wink



Aww, thanks Xanaseb! Smile


Harold.of.Whoa
Rivendell


Jun 3 2012, 3:32pm

Post #18 of 21 (239 views)
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The chain [In reply to] Can't Post

The chain really catches my attention in this still.

I had never really noticed that the chain links are in the form of perfect rings, smaller than the One Ring, but so similar.

It makes me think about the concept of smaller cycles within greater cycles, and it makes me think about the idea of being bound to (or by) something.

One Ring to bring them all, And in the Darkness bind them

It shall be an heirloom of my kingdom. All that shall follow in my bloodline should be bound to its fate....


(Those are from memory, and might be slightly off. Of course, the latter is a movie derivation.)

Isildur to Aragorn is a larger cycle of inheritance, Bilbo to Frodo is a smaller one. The One Ring and it's connection to the other Rings of Power overshadows all.

Within the Fellowship, whose fate is truly bound to the Ring? Who is, at present, attached to the other end of that chain?

Beautiful selection.


Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Jun 3 2012, 4:58pm

Post #19 of 21 (214 views)
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wow that IS profound :D // [In reply to] Can't Post

Cool

Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day!

________________________________________________

Laketown guy: What have the dwarves -ever- done for us?

Bard: The aqueduct!

Laketown guy: Piss off! We're not from Dale


zarabia
Tol Eressea


Jun 7 2012, 1:40am

Post #20 of 21 (183 views)
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Wow! Sorry I didn't see your post earlier [In reply to] Can't Post

I honestly thought the links were oval until reading your response. I guess it's an optical illusion because they do look oval unless you look at them edge on, and then it's apparent that they are, in fact, round. Wow! They are like One Rings in miniature. Definitely seems significant. Great catch and wonderful insight on the concept of binding!


Magpie
Immortal


Jun 7 2012, 2:11am

Post #21 of 21 (467 views)
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and to take it one step further... [In reply to] Can't Post

of looking at a ring 'on edge' such that it looks like an oval:




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