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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Tibboh eht: Noissucsid Eivom:
Discuss Quickbeam's CinemaCon report here.
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Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Apr 27 2012, 8:57am

Post #1 of 188 (6090 views)
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Discuss Quickbeam's CinemaCon report here. Can't Post

Click here for the official report.

So, what are your reactions to the new report?


P.S. Please do not start new threads to discuss each aspect separately. Let's try to keep the discussion in this one. It makes things too hard to follow if the discussion gets too spread out. Many thanks!

Silverlode

"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories

(This post was edited by Silverlode on Apr 27 2012, 9:08am)


MrCere
Sr. Staff


Apr 27 2012, 9:09am

Post #2 of 188 (3814 views)
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I am delighted [In reply to] Can't Post

Cliff my friend, well done. This is the very thing we were all waiting for.

The wailing is momentary. Different is hard to accept.

Again, well done.

I have no choice but to believe in free will.

The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie

My blog




Moahunter
NahoR


Apr 27 2012, 9:18am

Post #3 of 188 (3765 views)
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I posted something before this thread was started. [In reply to] Can't Post

That has been deleted without a word of apology or explanation to me.
That kind of high-handed attitude doesn't encourage me to continue posting on this forum.


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Apr 27 2012, 9:23am

Post #4 of 188 (3764 views)
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Check your PMs. [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry I wasn't fast enough. This forum has been a handful today. Frown

Silverlode

"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories


Ruijor
NahoR


Apr 27 2012, 9:41am

Post #5 of 188 (3752 views)
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About the report... [In reply to] Can't Post

All I can say is if for one hand I loved to read about all the amazing and iconic scenes we will end up seeing in December I can´t spot thinking how I wll react to the new 48fps format, like Owain state people do tend to like smooth transitions not abrupt as we are about to experience.


Kangi Ska
Nevle-flah


Apr 27 2012, 9:46am

Post #6 of 188 (3757 views)
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Sir Peter the Brave: [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it is good that the ice was broken early. It gives the controversy time to blow over. I was certain that The Hobbit would be something completely different when Sir P. chose to film in digital 3D. It will be a landmark in visual entertainment.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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TFP
Llednevir


Apr 27 2012, 10:20am

Post #7 of 188 (3743 views)
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Three comments [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm a bit meh about the fps. In my life I've watched a lot of 'televisual' stuff with a huge range of picture qualities & whatnot and always think that this aspect of the overall experience is very much secondary to the real substance. I have a big Freeview HD television at home but invariably forget to switch over to the HD versions of the channels just because I don't really care.

All the Radogast stuff sounds promising. IMO very sensible extrapolation from the scant details provided by Tolkien.

I won't lie, all the stuff about imprisoning the Nine sounds fills me with something falling not far short of a nameless dread. Happy to be persuaded, when I see the film, that this works or is necessary [I daresay that it was invented to fit some particular way of telling the story, rather than vice versa], but my starter for ten is that it's fairly awful.


ElendilTheShort
Rodnog

Apr 27 2012, 11:03am

Post #8 of 188 (3735 views)
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A lot of invention [In reply to] Can't Post

and I hope this won't end up feeling like TTT which seemed so far from the book it was surreal.

Why the story about imprisoning the Nine when there is enough backround material to exclude such things. Just ridiculous.

Also sounds like the capture of the dwarves is going to be totally devoid of the feeling of mystery Bilbo experiences. By making the elves too present the perspective we experience in the book is completly altered.


QuackingTroll
Ronilav


Apr 27 2012, 11:22am

Post #9 of 188 (3721 views)
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I like the idea of "The Nine" [In reply to] Can't Post

Mostly because it sets up for when Saruman and Gandalf say "The Nine" with such dread in FotR. This bit always felt a little jarring before and now has explanation. Smile

"...For if joyful is the fountain that rises in the sun, its springs are in the wells of sorrow unfathomed at the foundations of the Earth"


Ruijor
NahoR


Apr 27 2012, 11:28am

Post #10 of 188 (3657 views)
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Although... [In reply to] Can't Post

..later in Bree Strider kinda explain to the audiences who the Nazgul were used to be. But yes, it´s always nice to see connections being made bettwen TH and LOTR.


(This post was edited by Ruijor on Apr 27 2012, 11:29am)


Bombadil
Nevle-flah


Apr 27 2012, 11:37am

Post #11 of 188 (3660 views)
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Lately.. [In reply to] Can't Post

When in Doubt
little old me
REREADS
JRRT ...s


Books

Xoxox
Bomby


DanielLB
Latrommi


Apr 27 2012, 11:44am

Post #12 of 188 (3647 views)
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Re-post my message [In reply to] Can't Post

I know you can't really answer any of our questions, but I suppose meeting her in real life is a lot different to having a quick glimpse in some unfinished material. Would you say her hair colour is darker then? What I'm also interested in seeing is her hair style - all the Elves we have seen have had long straight hair (I know someone will correct me on that Wink). Didn't Quickbeam mention tightly braided hair (or something along those lines?)

It will be great to see what they have done with this character.


DanielLB
Latrommi


Apr 27 2012, 11:48am

Post #13 of 188 (3602 views)
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Sticky [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not sure how TORNs stickies work, but would it be worth sticking this thread to the top of the forum (at least for the next couple of days anyway)? That way, people may see this thread straight away before posting a new thread. If it were half way down the page, no-one is going to see it?


DanielLB
Latrommi


Apr 27 2012, 11:49am

Post #14 of 188 (3608 views)
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Agreed, QT [In reply to] Can't Post

Would you want to see them though? Or leave that for FOTR?


TFP
Llednevir


Apr 27 2012, 12:15pm

Post #15 of 188 (3596 views)
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The Nine [In reply to] Can't Post

Nah, I can't really stomach it. This is the thin end of a wedge that ushers in a teen drama series called 'Party of Nine', revolving around their various japes whilst living together in their underground home.

Specific concerns:

1 - Their reputation for fearsomeness seems severely dented by the idea that some northern blokes were able to lock them all in a crypt.

2 - The idea of said blokes using "spell"s to help achieve this jars IMO with 'magic' as the word is understood in Tolkien's works.

3 - The idea of them trapped underground together & then escaping seems horribly derivative somehow, I appreciate that all Tolkien's work is somewhat derivative [e.g. drawing on Beowulf &whatnot] this feels derivative of fairly awful stuff, I'm not sure exactly what it reminds me of but it's a little bit Alien vs. Predator, a little bit The Mummy, maybe a dash of The Vampire Lestat or something... horrible.

I also didn't particularly want to be reminded of Morgul blades, that was one of the yuckiest, worst looking, bits of CGI in the LOTR trilogy...


(This post was edited by TFP on Apr 27 2012, 12:23pm)


Lacrimae Rerum
SnevaH Yerg

Apr 27 2012, 12:30pm

Post #16 of 188 (3577 views)
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I tend to find the nine interesting as a concept at this stage [In reply to] Can't Post

Although let me hold up my hands and confess that I am the sort of person who will always try to order a dish I have never tried before in a restaurant. I know that that is not everyone's taste.

My thoughts at the moment are hovering around the fact that I can see why the film-makers would want to show and give impetus to Gandalf's canon suspicions and investigations of Dol Guldur. "Dark things were stirring" we are told and the goodies "perceived a power" was in the area. So can I see the film wanting to present some of these reasons for suspicion clearly? - yes. If dark things are stirring are the Nazgul a good choice? - well not a bad one given the canon suspicion that a Nazgul had taken up residence at Dol Guldur. If they are shown to be stirring then there are many things that could be shown; them riding around, people sharing descriptions of sightings etc. It seems like the tombs idea is another way of demonstrating this "stirring". Would there be other ways of achieving the same? - sure - but this is one.

So we have something different to the text but then again Tolkien never told the story of Dol Guldur as a narrative piece so we might expect some different blocks. Again, of course there would be other ways to tackle it, but I could certainly understand a desire to show the cause and effect of actions and reactions within the story strand e.g. giving Gandalf a clear reason to go, not having the few hundred years gap between visits etc.

So does it cause problems for me. Well not at this stage. Again this relies on personal preference but the implication of some change to the back story of the Nazgul doesn't really worry me. It isn't a chunk of story which seems important to the Hobbit so I don't feel that making alterations there impinges upon the tale. The Nazgul having tombs also doesn't impinge upon my view of them as characters (if Tolkien had happened to mention such I certainly can't picture myself suddenly flinging the book aside in disgust!)

So in summary - who knows. It might be rubbish, it might be great. For me personally I find myself with new things to think about in relation to the Hobbit, its characters and its context. And I quite enjoy that (personally again!), probably more so than the pleasure of "matching" for want of a better term i.e. that's the way I always imagined it and that's what I now see. To be totally clear I am not suggesting my way of thinking is better than any other or advocating it. I can see in friends that there is great pleasure in ordering their favorite dish and know they would be mortified if it arrived any differently to how it had come before.

LR


QuackingTroll
Ronilav


Apr 27 2012, 12:57pm

Post #17 of 188 (3599 views)
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"Disguised as riders in black" [In reply to] Can't Post

If we do see them then I think this is a cool opportunity for them to be presented in a different form. Leave the Ringwraith look for LotR, Saruman's words make more sense that way.

"The nine have left Minas Morgul. They crossed the river Isen on Midsummer's eve, disguised as riders in black"

Also, I believe Khamúl has a good deal to do with Dol Guldur, I think it's left in his keeping when Sauron is driven out? So he could be expanded a little.

Either way, shown or not shown I'm confident that PJ knows what's best here (he usually gets all the creepy stuff right) and I'm eager to see what he does.

"...For if joyful is the fountain that rises in the sun, its springs are in the wells of sorrow unfathomed at the foundations of the Earth"


QuackingTroll
Ronilav


Apr 27 2012, 1:04pm

Post #18 of 188 (3568 views)
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I'm not saying I didn't understand... [In reply to] Can't Post

But to an audience's first viewing this piece of dialogue is a little odd, as is the shot of the Ringwraiths leaving Minas Morgul - I saw the films before I'd read the books and remember not knowing what was going on or what they were talking about. Obviously, it's only really necessary to understand that there are nine somethings looking for the Ring. But it's still cool to have this little set-up and explanation.

"...For if joyful is the fountain that rises in the sun, its springs are in the wells of sorrow unfathomed at the foundations of the Earth"


Carne
Aessere Lot

Apr 27 2012, 1:25pm

Post #19 of 188 (3547 views)
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The trolls! [In reply to] Can't Post

I need to know more about them! Definitely one of the scenes I'm looking forward to the most. Did they look like the stone versions in FOTR? What were the voices like? All deep or some variety? Did the trolls have different personalities (although might be a bit hard to tell based on a 1 minute clip)?


Hanzkaz
NahoR

Apr 27 2012, 1:33pm

Post #20 of 188 (3508 views)
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They could first show the Nine using host bodies - [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
If we do see them then I think this is a cool opportunity for them to be presented in a different form.


- and then revealing that they didn't really need them. I'm thinking of something like a Barrow-Wight.

I have this idea about Gandalf reducing one of them to ashes, and a short while later those same ashes stirring, seemingly due to the wind..


(This post was edited by Hanzkaz on Apr 27 2012, 1:36pm)


dave_lf
Rodnog

Apr 27 2012, 1:46pm

Post #21 of 188 (3491 views)
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Glamdring [In reply to] Can't Post

What I'd like to know is: did Gandalf have Glamdring in the nazgul tomb and/or when he was attacked by Thrain? That would help to put events in order.


(This post was edited by dave_lf on Apr 27 2012, 1:46pm)


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Apr 27 2012, 2:24pm

Post #22 of 188 (3448 views)
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Stickies [In reply to] Can't Post

From past experience, people tend to ignore stickies over threads that look more active because the replies to stickies are hidden until you open the thread. Let's try this way for now and see what happens.


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Apr 27 2012, 2:27pm

Post #23 of 188 (3479 views)
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We did [In reply to] Can't Post

both explain and apologize via PM, as well as copy the text of your post for you so you could re-post it as soon as we possibly could (we had several people to PM). This is standard operating procedure when duplicate threads start.

If we could merge threads, that would be great, but we can't. So we do the next best thing. Again, sorry for any inconvenience and we do hope you repost! Smile


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





Gurtholfin
Eerb

Apr 27 2012, 2:55pm

Post #24 of 188 (3488 views)
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Changing History [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd start out by saying that I'm far from a purest and liked some of the changes that were made in the LOTR movies.

This thing with the 9 is hard to fathom. Why is this needed?

This is a RADICAL break from the history that the author created, not just an artistic change or a change for movie pacing's sake.

The Witch King was the ONLY nazgul present in the North at any time during the war with Arnor. The other 8 were elsewhere in the world doing their master's bidding including at least one in Dol Guldur.

The remnants of Arthedain didn't at any time have the power to imprison the WK, let alone all 9 of them. Not even sure that their Numenorean ancestors could have accomplished this.

Glorfindel, you know, the fella that also defeated a Balrog was only able to chase the Witch King from the field at Fornost, not capture him.

I just don't see why this is even necessary from a story-telling point. At first blush, this seems like an unneeded change from the written and conceived history.

Quoted from Wikipedia:

"One of the Appendices usually published with the third volume, The Return of the King, relates that during the Third Age, Glorfindel leads the Elvish forces of Rivendell, the Grey Havens, and Lothlórien against Angmar in the Battle of Fornost. There he fights alongside Eärnur, the future king of Gondor, along with the remnants of Gondor's sister kingdom Arnor. When the Witch-king of Angmar, Lord of the Ringwraiths (Nazgûl) and chief servant of Sauron, rides out to defend his ruling seat at the captured Fornost, his presence spooks Eärnur's horse and sends the prince backwards, and the Witch-king mocks him for this. Glorfindel confronts the Witch-king, who flees into the night. Eärnur wishes to pursue him, but Glorfindel bids him not to and prophesies the Witch-king will fall in the far future, but not by "the hand of man".[4] Many years later, Éowyn (a woman) kills the Witch-king during the Battle of Pelennor Fields, assisted by Meriadoc Brandybuck (a hobbit[5]). Prior to this event, the prophecy had been interpreted to mean mankind in general, not a man in the sense of gender."

I just don't understand the NEED to change this.

Confused...


Owain
Aessere Lot


Apr 27 2012, 3:15pm

Post #25 of 188 (3412 views)
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Great report! Thanks for sharing! [In reply to] Can't Post

Love tORN.Smile

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."

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