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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Gaming & Collecting:
Orcrist
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Derisedegami
The Shire

Apr 7 2012, 5:13am

Post #1 of 53 (2048 views)
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Orcrist Can't Post

I noticed a picture of Thorin on one of today's onering.net posts. He's holding a nice sword, which I presume to be Orcrist. If so, it looks pretty sweet, and I'm hoping to see a good replica in the near future.

I know United Cutlery went bankrupt, but are they still in operation under new ownership?

edit: After looking at a higher res image of it, it looks a lot like Sting, with similar etching on the blade... now I really want this thing!


(This post was edited by Derisedegami on Apr 7 2012, 5:17am)


DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 7 2012, 6:59am

Post #2 of 53 (972 views)
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More of a collecting (rather than film) question [In reply to] Can't Post

I emailed a couple of sites (UK-based) who had/still do stock United Cutlery swords. They all got back to me saying that a new line of swords will be coming out this winter and over 2013. I assume they mean UC, since none of the sites stocked any other replica LOTR sword.


Thorins_apprentice
Rohan

Apr 7 2012, 7:29am

Post #3 of 53 (907 views)
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How much would the starting bid be for something like this auctioned.??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Cool

We are more connected than ever before, more able to spread our ideas and beliefs, our anger and fears. As we exercise the right to advocate our views, and as we animate our supporters, we must all assume responsibility for our words and actions before they enter a vast echo chamber and reach those both serious and delirious, connected and unhinged.



DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 7 2012, 7:41am

Post #4 of 53 (945 views)
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I don't know about auction [In reply to] Can't Post

But if they were to bring out Orcrist, I would expect it to be in the price range of 100-150 ($150-230)

This is probably a bit optimistic. Perhaps an absolute maximum of 175 (~$270)


(This post was edited by DanielLB on Apr 7 2012, 7:42am)


GothmogTheBalrog
Rivendell

Apr 8 2012, 7:41pm

Post #5 of 53 (841 views)
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Orcrist [In reply to] Can't Post

This website doesn't have Orcrist yet. But here's Glamdring: http://kennesawcutlery.com/...ings-Glamdring-Sword

"who now has the power to stand against Isengard and Mordor? Who can stand against the might of Sauron and Saruman, and the union of the Two Towers?"
-Saruman


ElendilTheShort
Gondor

Apr 9 2012, 6:00am

Post #6 of 53 (887 views)
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I was hoping Orcrist [In reply to] Can't Post

as the mate of Glamdring would look more similar. Orcrist has elements of Glamdring and Sting's design apparent in it's guard and blade but in itself is going to be a broad single edged weapon similar in some respects to something like a big falcata except with a straight spine.


DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 9 2012, 7:28pm

Post #7 of 53 (770 views)
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Sting & Glamdring [In reply to] Can't Post

It certainly does look like an amalgamation between Sting & Glamdring - I wonder why they did that, and not just stick to a Glamdring mate?


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Apr 9 2012, 8:35pm

Post #8 of 53 (765 views)
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Would Orcrist look ridiculously long...? [In reply to] Can't Post

If Orcrist were styled more like Glamdring would it look ridiculously long when scaled for Thorin? Maybe that is why it was designed differently.

"Darkness beyond blackest pitch, deeper than the deepest night!
King of Darkness, who shines like gold upon the Sea of Chaos.
I call upon thee and swear myself to thee!
Let the fools who stand before me be destroyed by the power you and I possess!"


DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 9 2012, 8:41pm

Post #9 of 53 (781 views)
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Something I had not thought of [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes - it probably would look long in that case.

There is no reason to suggest they should be alike - other than my own personal reasonings!!


ElendilTheShort
Gondor

Apr 10 2012, 3:14am

Post #10 of 53 (770 views)
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Tolkien writes [In reply to] Can't Post

Orcrist is Glamdring's mate, what that means exactly I do not know. Could mean they are identical, similar or part of a set. As far as Orcrist is concerned, it is an elven blade made for elves so how it looks with Thorin should be irrelevant when considering canon material, but of course has been considered for aedthetics by the movie makers. Unfortunately the Professor does not provide a neat ecplanation for Orcrist fitting Thorin like he does with Bilbo and Sting, but maybe he did not think it relevant as the size difference between dwarves and elves is not as great as that between hobbits and elves. Throw in the fact that neither sword were likely to have been designed primarily for two handed use as those in the film were, and any difference in size between users becomes a bit less relevant.


ElendilTheShort
Gondor

Apr 10 2012, 3:23am

Post #11 of 53 (761 views)
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Actually [In reply to] Can't Post

I consider my comment about the swords possibly being identical as wrong, as the goblins recognised the difference between the two so they must have looked different to some extent.


DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 10 2012, 6:52am

Post #12 of 53 (732 views)
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Dwarves [In reply to] Can't Post

aren't *that* much taller/bigger than Hobbits (just look at the new trailer and promo pictures).


DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 10 2012, 6:53am

Post #13 of 53 (738 views)
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Beater & Biter [In reply to] Can't Post

The other issue, of course, is how they recognised Beater and Biter - are they goblins from the First Age, or was the legend passed down from generation to generation Tongue


ElendilTheShort
Gondor

Apr 10 2012, 8:19am

Post #14 of 53 (729 views)
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I don't think [In reply to] Can't Post

the movie folk can be used to judge the heights of races in Tolkien's work.


DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 10 2012, 8:23am

Post #15 of 53 (785 views)
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I know they can't [In reply to] Can't Post

But seeing how we are talking about Orcrist from the films .... Wink


elevorn
Lorien


Apr 10 2012, 4:00pm

Post #16 of 53 (757 views)
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part of a set [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps I am oversimplifying this a bit but when I read the Hobbit, I always feel like the characters choose the weapons because they work for them. Glamdring fits Gandalf so its easy for me to assume a long two handed sword, Orcrist is chosen by Thorin so I always felt that it was a smaller one handed elven sword that worked for two dwarven hands, much like Sting works for Bilbo. They don't have to match in length or shape to be part of a set. A warrior could have conceivably carried all three, a long two handed sword, a short sword, and a dagger. The difference in elven weapon design is quite varied, especially considering the age of these weapons. Just a thought.

"clever hobbits to climb so high!"


DarkJackal
Rohan


Apr 10 2012, 6:48pm

Post #17 of 53 (733 views)
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I've been doing some research... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think you might be interested in the information I've dredged up about upcoming Orcrist replicas. The info itself is spread over many forum posts on several collector's sites, but I've complied it all on my blog (and added pretty pictures, yay!)

Orcrist: The Sword of Thorin in Book, Film, and Replica.

Look for another post about other upcoming weapons in this forum.

-DarkJackal


DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 10 2012, 6:54pm

Post #18 of 53 (710 views)
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Thanks DarkJackal [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for compiling that info - great to have it all in one place.

I e-mailed a couple of UK sellers regarding UC merchandise - they all said they would be stocking the new swords (but couldn't give specific details) - I hope Orcrist won't be a problem for Uk customers.


DarkJackal
Rohan


Apr 10 2012, 7:23pm

Post #19 of 53 (695 views)
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A set [In reply to] Can't Post

Elevorn writes:
"They don't have to match in length or shape to be part of a set. A warrior could have conceivably carried all three, a long two handed sword, a short sword, and a dagger. The difference in elven weapon design is quite varied, especially considering the age of these weapons."

I like the idea that they could be a set of three, as you describe.

But with Glamdring refusing to glow in the trilogy, it kind of messes that likelihood up for the films.

I'm still wondering if Glamdring will be found with Orcrist and Sting, and if Orcrist will glow or not.


Derisedegami
The Shire

Apr 10 2012, 8:00pm

Post #20 of 53 (707 views)
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Great link... [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for sharing the Orcrist page! Fantastic pictures of what I'm sure would be my favorite replica.


ElendilTheShort
Gondor

Apr 10 2012, 8:50pm

Post #21 of 53 (723 views)
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The authors [In reply to] Can't Post

comments about cleaver type swords being heavier and therefore cutting deeper is absolute rubbish. European single edged swords are as thin and light as some of their two edged counterparts, and as swords vary signficantly whether they are single or double edged, they are in fact thinner and lighter than some other types of two edged swords the are contempory with. They are generally not heavy but they are awesome cutters because the blade geometry allows for a very acute angle for the blade surface.


DarkJackal
Rohan


Apr 10 2012, 11:00pm

Post #22 of 53 (706 views)
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Thanks for the critique... [In reply to] Can't Post

...I think Tongue
I'm no sword expert, so what I know is coming from net sources, which means my references, and reasoning built on them, may not be accurate. I'm assuming that because of shape, the weight of the Orcrist-type sword is focused behind the point of percussion, but whether it is heavier/thinner overall than a double edged blade might not be true. I will look into it.
Unfortunately we won't know the true cross-section of Orcrist for some time. Sly

We do know that Orcrist, the prop, is heavy enough for the actor (who is no stranger to stage combat) to remark upon it. I'm assuming there are quite a few versions of the prop, so who knows if he is referring to a stunt sword or what. It could also mean that it just seems heavier because the balance is different from what he is used to.

There is also the factor that modern forged swords are not always as well-balanced as genuine historical swords, so comparing the two is probably unfair (if that's what we are doing, I've lost track).

-DarkJackal


(This post was edited by DarkJackal on Apr 10 2012, 11:04pm)


ElendilTheShort
Gondor

Apr 10 2012, 11:15pm

Post #23 of 53 (696 views)
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Oooh dear [In reply to] Can't Post

sorry, just looked at my post and it came across harsh so I am genuinely sorry for that. Very bad choice of words on my part. What I should have said in the first place in any case was thanks for the overall information, it was good to have it all at hand in one place as others have said. I will get you some relevant information if you are interested in swords as there is so much misinformation on the web (heavy swords with blood grooves is a favourite peeve). But yes clearly the movie Orcirst is heavy.


(This post was edited by ElendilTheShort on Apr 10 2012, 11:18pm)


DarkJackal
Rohan


Apr 11 2012, 12:34am

Post #24 of 53 (699 views)
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It's expected :-) [In reply to] Can't Post

I hate to say it, but I entirely expect to get blasted from time to time when posting *anything* on the net, and certainly something that I've only done Wikipedia quality research on Wink

I am totally interested in your info, and appreciate your attention to detail. Having just attempted a bit more research on the topic, I have already come across conflicting bits, so a guide would be helpful! You can PM about it if you want.

Here's a timely post by Weta about swordsmith Peter Lyon. That's the person I needed to ask my Orcrist questions of! What a missed opportunity!

-DarkJackal


ShireHorse
Rohan

Apr 11 2012, 11:00am

Post #25 of 53 (653 views)
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Thank you, DJ! [In reply to] Can't Post

You've gathered together some really good close-ups there. Great blog!

I'm really curious to find out, now that it's been mentioned, what "history" PJ has worked out for Orcrist. Perhaps we should have some guesses as to its maker/previous owner.

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