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Derisedegami
The Shire
Apr 7 2012, 5:13am
Post #1 of 53
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I noticed a picture of Thorin on one of today's onering.net posts. He's holding a nice sword, which I presume to be Orcrist. If so, it looks pretty sweet, and I'm hoping to see a good replica in the near future.
I know United Cutlery went bankrupt, but are they still in operation under new ownership?
edit: After looking at a higher res image of it, it looks a lot like Sting, with similar etching on the blade... now I really want this thing!
(This post was edited by Derisedegami on Apr 7 2012, 5:17am)
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DanielLB
Immortal
Apr 7 2012, 6:59am
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More of a collecting (rather than film) question
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I emailed a couple of sites (UK-based) who had/still do stock United Cutlery swords. They all got back to me saying that a new line of swords will be coming out this winter and over 2013. I assume they mean UC, since none of the sites stocked any other replica LOTR sword.
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Thorins_apprentice
Rohan
Apr 7 2012, 7:29am
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How much would the starting bid be for something like this auctioned.???
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We are more connected than ever before, more able to spread our ideas and beliefs, our anger and fears. As we exercise the right to advocate our views, and as we animate our supporters, we must all assume responsibility for our words and actions before they enter a vast echo chamber and reach those both serious and delirious, connected and unhinged.
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DanielLB
Immortal
Apr 7 2012, 7:41am
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But if they were to bring out Orcrist, I would expect it to be in the price range of £100-150 ($150-230)
This is probably a bit optimistic. Perhaps an absolute maximum of £175 (~$270)
(This post was edited by DanielLB on Apr 7 2012, 7:42am)
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ElendilTheShort
Gondor
Apr 9 2012, 6:00am
Post #6 of 53
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as the mate of Glamdring would look more similar. Orcrist has elements of Glamdring and Sting's design apparent in it's guard and blade but in itself is going to be a broad single edged weapon similar in some respects to something like a big falcata except with a straight spine.
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DanielLB
Immortal
Apr 9 2012, 7:28pm
Post #7 of 53
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It certainly does look like an amalgamation between Sting & Glamdring - I wonder why they did that, and not just stick to a Glamdring mate?
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Apr 9 2012, 8:35pm
Post #8 of 53
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Would Orcrist look ridiculously long...?
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If Orcrist were styled more like Glamdring would it look ridiculously long when scaled for Thorin? Maybe that is why it was designed differently.
"Darkness beyond blackest pitch, deeper than the deepest night!
King of Darkness, who shines like gold upon the Sea of Chaos.
I call upon thee and swear myself to thee!
Let the fools who stand before me be destroyed by the power you and I possess!"
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DanielLB
Immortal
Apr 9 2012, 8:41pm
Post #9 of 53
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Something I had not thought of
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Yes - it probably would look long in that case.
There is no reason to suggest they should be alike - other than my own personal reasonings!!
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ElendilTheShort
Gondor
Apr 10 2012, 3:14am
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Orcrist is Glamdring's mate, what that means exactly I do not know. Could mean they are identical, similar or part of a set. As far as Orcrist is concerned, it is an elven blade made for elves so how it looks with Thorin should be irrelevant when considering canon material, but of course has been considered for aedthetics by the movie makers. Unfortunately the Professor does not provide a neat ecplanation for Orcrist fitting Thorin like he does with Bilbo and Sting, but maybe he did not think it relevant as the size difference between dwarves and elves is not as great as that between hobbits and elves. Throw in the fact that neither sword were likely to have been designed primarily for two handed use as those in the film were, and any difference in size between users becomes a bit less relevant.
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ElendilTheShort
Gondor
Apr 10 2012, 3:23am
Post #11 of 53
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I consider my comment about the swords possibly being identical as wrong, as the goblins recognised the difference between the two so they must have looked different to some extent.
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DanielLB
Immortal
Apr 10 2012, 6:52am
Post #12 of 53
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aren't *that* much taller/bigger than Hobbits (just look at the new trailer and promo pictures).
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DanielLB
Immortal
Apr 10 2012, 6:53am
Post #13 of 53
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The other issue, of course, is how they recognised Beater and Biter - are they goblins from the First Age, or was the legend passed down from generation to generation 
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ElendilTheShort
Gondor
Apr 10 2012, 8:19am
Post #14 of 53
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the movie folk can be used to judge the heights of races in Tolkien's work.
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DanielLB
Immortal
Apr 10 2012, 8:23am
Post #15 of 53
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But seeing how we are talking about Orcrist from the films .... 
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elevorn
Lorien
Apr 10 2012, 4:00pm
Post #16 of 53
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Perhaps I am oversimplifying this a bit but when I read the Hobbit, I always feel like the characters choose the weapons because they work for them. Glamdring fits Gandalf so its easy for me to assume a long two handed sword, Orcrist is chosen by Thorin so I always felt that it was a smaller one handed elven sword that worked for two dwarven hands, much like Sting works for Bilbo. They don't have to match in length or shape to be part of a set. A warrior could have conceivably carried all three, a long two handed sword, a short sword, and a dagger. The difference in elven weapon design is quite varied, especially considering the age of these weapons. Just a thought.
"clever hobbits to climb so high!"
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DarkJackal
Rohan
Apr 10 2012, 6:48pm
Post #17 of 53
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I've been doing some research...
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I think you might be interested in the information I've dredged up about upcoming Orcrist replicas. The info itself is spread over many forum posts on several collector's sites, but I've complied it all on my blog (and added pretty pictures, yay!)
Orcrist: The Sword of Thorin in Book, Film, and Replica.
Look for another post about other upcoming weapons in this forum.
-DarkJackal
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DanielLB
Immortal
Apr 10 2012, 6:54pm
Post #18 of 53
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Thanks for compiling that info - great to have it all in one place.
I e-mailed a couple of UK sellers regarding UC merchandise - they all said they would be stocking the new swords (but couldn't give specific details) - I hope Orcrist won't be a problem for Uk customers.
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DarkJackal
Rohan
Apr 10 2012, 7:23pm
Post #19 of 53
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Elevorn writes:
"They don't have to match in length or shape to be part of a set. A warrior could have conceivably carried all three, a long two handed sword, a short sword, and a dagger. The difference in elven weapon design is quite varied, especially considering the age of these weapons."
I like the idea that they could be a set of three, as you describe.
But with Glamdring refusing to glow in the trilogy, it kind of messes that likelihood up for the films.
I'm still wondering if Glamdring will be found with Orcrist and Sting, and if Orcrist will glow or not.
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Derisedegami
The Shire
Apr 10 2012, 8:00pm
Post #20 of 53
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Thanks for sharing the Orcrist page! Fantastic pictures of what I'm sure would be my favorite replica.
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ElendilTheShort
Gondor
Apr 10 2012, 8:50pm
Post #21 of 53
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comments about cleaver type swords being heavier and therefore cutting deeper is absolute rubbish. European single edged swords are as thin and light as some of their two edged counterparts, and as swords vary signficantly whether they are single or double edged, they are in fact thinner and lighter than some other types of two edged swords the are contempory with. They are generally not heavy but they are awesome cutters because the blade geometry allows for a very acute angle for the blade surface.
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DarkJackal
Rohan
Apr 10 2012, 11:00pm
Post #22 of 53
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...I think
I'm no sword expert, so what I know is coming from net sources, which means my references, and reasoning built on them, may not be accurate. I'm assuming that because of shape, the weight of the Orcrist-type sword is focused behind the point of percussion, but whether it is heavier/thinner overall than a double edged blade might not be true. I will look into it.
Unfortunately we won't know the true cross-section of Orcrist for some time. 
We do know that Orcrist, the prop, is heavy enough for the actor (who is no stranger to stage combat) to remark upon it. I'm assuming there are quite a few versions of the prop, so who knows if he is referring to a stunt sword or what. It could also mean that it just seems heavier because the balance is different from what he is used to.
There is also the factor that modern forged swords are not always as well-balanced as genuine historical swords, so comparing the two is probably unfair (if that's what we are doing, I've lost track).
-DarkJackal
(This post was edited by DarkJackal on Apr 10 2012, 11:04pm)
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ElendilTheShort
Gondor
Apr 10 2012, 11:15pm
Post #23 of 53
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sorry, just looked at my post and it came across harsh so I am genuinely sorry for that. Very bad choice of words on my part. What I should have said in the first place in any case was thanks for the overall information, it was good to have it all at hand in one place as others have said. I will get you some relevant information if you are interested in swords as there is so much misinformation on the web (heavy swords with blood grooves is a favourite peeve). But yes clearly the movie Orcirst is heavy.
(This post was edited by ElendilTheShort on Apr 10 2012, 11:18pm)
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DarkJackal
Rohan
Apr 11 2012, 12:34am
Post #24 of 53
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I hate to say it, but I entirely expect to get blasted from time to time when posting *anything* on the net, and certainly something that I've only done Wikipedia quality research on
I am totally interested in your info, and appreciate your attention to detail. Having just attempted a bit more research on the topic, I have already come across conflicting bits, so a guide would be helpful! You can PM about it if you want.
Here's a timely post by Weta about swordsmith Peter Lyon. That's the person I needed to ask my Orcrist questions of! What a missed opportunity!
-DarkJackal
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ShireHorse
Rohan
Apr 11 2012, 11:00am
Post #25 of 53
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You've gathered together some really good close-ups there. Great blog!
I'm really curious to find out, now that it's been mentioned, what "history" PJ has worked out for Orcrist. Perhaps we should have some guesses as to its maker/previous owner.
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