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Lacrimae Rerum
Hithlum
Mar 19 2012, 11:05pm
Post #51 of 94
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Hmmm I think the importance of gender comes across
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In both the film and the text. I'm not sure why we are not happy to accept the role of Eowyn as "no man"?
LR
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DanielLB
Elvenhome
Mar 19 2012, 11:11pm
Post #52 of 94
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I'm not questioning that at all. I'm just saying it was both Merry ans Eowyn, rather than just the gender.
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DanielLB
Elvenhome
Mar 19 2012, 11:15pm
Post #53 of 94
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That there are certain things from the book that still happened in between scenes (or variations of), but we didn't get to see. The Hobbit's don't say anything about not meeting Bombadil and Goldberry - who's to say they didn't 
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Lacrimae Rerum
Hithlum
Mar 19 2012, 11:17pm
Post #54 of 94
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I quite agree. Perhaps I misunderstood. I had thought you meant that once Merry had stabbed him anyone I.e. male or female, human or not, could have finished him off.
LR
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DanielLB
Elvenhome
Mar 19 2012, 11:24pm
Post #55 of 94
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I mean theoretically, yes, anyone could have (since the Merry "diminished" his power). But theoretically doesn't always happen. Tolkien fulfilled the prophecy via Eowyn, so theoretically it could only ever be Eowyn 
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Lacrimae Rerum
Hithlum
Mar 19 2012, 11:27pm
Post #56 of 94
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Ah see I'm not so sure about that.
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I think the "no man" clause still applies even after the stabbing. Otherwise it seems rather a lot of trouble to get the only female on the battelfield there and to highlight the "no man" business in her speech.
LR
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QuackingTroll
Doriath
Mar 19 2012, 11:36pm
Post #58 of 94
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If only the men of Gondor knew this //
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"...For if joyful is the fountain that rises in the sun, its springs are in the wells of sorrow unfathomed at the foundations of the Earth"
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DanielLB
Elvenhome
Mar 19 2012, 11:38pm
Post #59 of 94
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Yes, does seem strange doesn't it
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But I assume Sauron made them more "powerful" when it came to Pelennor.
Otherwise an eagle with a Ring and a single match could have gone into Mordor 
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TheGoblinKing
Nargothrond
Mar 20 2012, 4:46am
Post #60 of 94
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If Sauron was as powerful as people feared why did he need the Nazgul, Saruman and all these beings. I know the Ring had some of his power but speaking as a person who likes to dream up stories. Sauron comes across kind of a lame villain. I mean all he can do is look with his eye. I loved these stories and The Orcs and baddies were wicked but really i think Sauron pumeling Aragorn in his bad boy way would have made the great ending when The Ring was destroyed.
The True King Of Mordor
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Shelob'sAppetite
Doriath
Mar 20 2012, 5:50am
Post #61 of 94
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Another part of it is that the ringwraiths on Weathertop are a long, long way from Mordor, and their Master. They are simply out of their element, and away from their source, and that weakens them. Think of being a small band of soldiers deep in enemy territory, cut off from supply lines and the command structure. You are very vulnerable.
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Shelob'sAppetite
Doriath
Mar 20 2012, 6:03am
Post #62 of 94
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If the prophecy is to mean anything. The common interpretation is that "no man" did, in the end, refer to the simple fact that his final foe would be a female.
Yes, the death blow required Merry to break the ice, if you will, but for some reason, a woman was needed to deliver the coup de grace.
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DanielLB
Elvenhome
Mar 20 2012, 7:46am
Post #63 of 94
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You are probably right (in other words, I agree), but the qoute given is directly from the book, whereas what you say is interpretation of what happened.
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DanielLB
Elvenhome
Mar 20 2012, 7:48am
Post #64 of 94
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Maybe you didn't read my later posts. I was only saying theoretically. Eowyn was always needed to fulfill the prophecy - as Tolkien intended - otherwise her storyline is null.
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QuackingTroll
Doriath
Mar 20 2012, 1:32pm
Post #65 of 94
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Don't forget, he was also slain pretty easy after loosing the ring
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I mean, in the film he just explodes immediately - both when Isildur takes it and Frodo destroys it. I think it's his version of a hissy fit.
"...For if joyful is the fountain that rises in the sun, its springs are in the wells of sorrow unfathomed at the foundations of the Earth"
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QuackingTroll
Doriath
Mar 20 2012, 1:36pm
Post #66 of 94
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"Fire is our friend IN THE WILDERNESS"
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It does seem to imply that only when they're in the wild, far from Mordor will fire work. When with an army or under Sauron's shadow I'm sure they're a lot braver against fire. That's the excuse I'll tell myself, anyway.
"...For if joyful is the fountain that rises in the sun, its springs are in the wells of sorrow unfathomed at the foundations of the Earth"
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Asger
Ossiriand
Mar 20 2012, 6:19pm
Post #67 of 94
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I don't think anyone could have killed the Witch King...
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...at the top of his powers. And Eowyn couldn't kill him because she was female; but when she revealed she was a woman, the Witch King felt fear because of the prophecy, therefore he became vulnerable. You must realise he is a wraith, his body is held together by his mind, fear or confusion will weaken him.
"Don't take life seriously, it ain't nohow permanent!" Pogo
www.willy-centret.dk
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DanielLB
Elvenhome
Mar 20 2012, 6:33pm
Post #68 of 94
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that it meant it was there only good means of defending themselves. Hiding behind a tree or down a hill is all good and dandy, but throwing soil or a flower at a Ringwraith, in my experience, isn't much use.
On a completely unrelated note, I don't think this bit of the forums has seen so much action (in terms of posting)!
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imin
Doriath
Mar 20 2012, 6:56pm
Post #69 of 94
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When do you think the witch king was at the height of his powers?/
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DanielLB
Elvenhome
Mar 20 2012, 7:06pm
Post #70 of 94
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And maybe that's what imin is getting at?
Surely the Witch-King was at the height of his power at Pelennor, and Eowyn killed him. He can't have been at the height of his power at any other time?
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TheGoblinKing
Nargothrond
Mar 20 2012, 7:23pm
Post #71 of 94
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Movie Wise It Was Against Gandalf In The ROTK EE
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I am however wondering now if maybe Sauron was channeling his power at its highest and thus Gandalf was facing Saurons power not the Witch Kings. I think Sauron sinced the momentum change when Rohan came and let The Witch King die as punishement for not being able to beat a girl.
The True King Of Mordor
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imin
Doriath
Mar 20 2012, 7:50pm
Post #72 of 94
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that is totally out there, lol. I think PJ did what he did as it looked good on screen nothing more, he deviated from the book which we have said what happens but you are not interested in knowing so there is nothing more to say than, i dont think your interpretation is right but its certainly one you can have.
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TheGoblinKing
Nargothrond
Mar 20 2012, 7:55pm
Post #73 of 94
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That part been exactly like the book. A show off between Gandy and Witchy been great if showed an equal footing then The Witch King leaves in rage and Gets killed by Eowyn.
I could have done without it in the EE version.
I love Pete but he has this thing not wanting to let Wizards do magic too much.
The True King Of Mordor
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Asger
Ossiriand
Mar 20 2012, 9:52pm
Post #74 of 94
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When do you think WK was at the height?
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Sure WK was at his highest at Pelennor. What I meant was that Eowyn revealing she was not a man shook his belief that no-one could kill him, no man, that is. And then he was mortally afraid.
I'm sure Gandalf could have pulled the 'I'm not a man'-bit too, if he had a chance, he's after all a Maya.
"Don't take life seriously, it ain't nohow permanent!" Pogo
www.willy-centret.dk
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DanielLB
Elvenhome
Mar 20 2012, 9:57pm
Post #75 of 94
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So it is Gandalf that predicted the end of the world in 2012?!?!
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On a more serious note, he probably was scared. Eowyn showed no fear and he probably soon realised death was nigh.
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