Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
The Ring Wraiths
First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 Next page Last page  View All

TheGoblinKing
Rohan

Mar 17 2012, 4:27pm

Post #1 of 94 (3909 views)
Shortcut
The Ring Wraiths Can't Post

I was wondering if anyone noticed that in the movies That The Witch King seemed stronger then when he was Stabbing Frodo. I asked this because Gandalf seems afraid of him and gets his staff destroyed. Yet back at Weathertop Aragorn runs all 5 off.
But i also suppose maybe wizards have weaknesses to Sauron servents and maybe Men do not.


DanielLB
Immortal


Mar 17 2012, 5:17pm

Post #2 of 94 (1666 views)
Shortcut
Nope [In reply to] Can't Post

Your question can be answered simply:


Quote
"Sauron can put fire to his evil uses, as he can all things, but these riders do not love it, and fear those who wield it. Fire is our friend in the wilderness." - Aragorn, A Knife in the Dark, Fellowship of the Ring


That is why Aragorn succeeds on Weathertop


imin
Valinor

Mar 17 2012, 5:27pm

Post #3 of 94 (1515 views)
Shortcut
for me the gandalf and ringwraith scene [In reply to] Can't Post

was not done particularly well. In the book it was done differently but that is like many scenes from book to the movie. I personally prefer the books version which has them more on an even footing, with me leaning towards gandalf the white being stronger (but perhaps not by very much).


DanielLB
Immortal


Mar 17 2012, 5:31pm

Post #4 of 94 (1519 views)
Shortcut
Now you mention it, that scene was done poorly [In reply to] Can't Post

In the book, Gandalf presents himself to the Witch King as he strode through the gates of Minas Tirith alone. Gandalf was done a horrible injustice in that scene. This is one of the wisest and most powerful beings in all of ME, but he is made short work of by the Witchking


Harold.of.Whoa
Rivendell


Mar 17 2012, 6:47pm

Post #5 of 94 (1398 views)
Shortcut
Waxing and waning Wraiths [In reply to] Can't Post

IIRC, both in the book and the EE of the movie, the Witch King says "This is my hour!" and I take him at his word, the point being that I think the Nazgul become more powerful as Sauron rises and as they get closer to Mordor and the Shadow.

I still don't like the movie scene and agree that the book encounter is much better, but I don't think the Witch King on Weathertop (or in Crickhollow, for that matter) is in the same league as Witch King at the siege of Minas Tirith.


Ereinion Nénharma
Lorien

Mar 17 2012, 6:50pm

Post #6 of 94 (1514 views)
Shortcut
In addition... [In reply to] Can't Post

to DanielLB's comments I remember that it is stated somewhere that Sauron enhances the With King's power before the Battle of the Pelennor Fields.

''Do not fear the shadows, for seeing them means light is near...''

(This post was edited by Ereinion Nénharma on Mar 17 2012, 6:50pm)


imin
Valinor

Mar 17 2012, 7:13pm

Post #7 of 94 (1390 views)
Shortcut
true [In reply to] Can't Post

but gandalf comes back with greater powers also. I dunno i just dont like seeing one of my favourite characters reduced to being afraid on the floor.


TheGoblinKing
Rohan

Mar 17 2012, 9:24pm

Post #8 of 94 (1371 views)
Shortcut
I Am Sure [In reply to] Can't Post

Movie wise i believe the scene where Gandalf gets his Staff broken was deleted and only seen in the extended editions. I believe it was meant to show that Gondor was at its most desperate hour when Rohan can with the dawn rising deal. So thus it was a tension loss because I do not believe The Witch King is as powerful as a Balrog when a Women can beat him.


TheGoblinKing
Rohan

Mar 17 2012, 9:30pm

Post #9 of 94 (1362 views)
Shortcut
As To That [In reply to] Can't Post

I am not so sure there is much big difference between Gandalf The Grey and White Powers. My observation is that Saurman failed as a White Wizard for good and got replaced. I think Gandalf is Stronger the Saruman at this point but I Think The Nazgul was not facing Aragorn but an Old Man really. I think the Nazgul actually are afraid of the King Of Men.


DanielLB
Immortal


Mar 17 2012, 9:41pm

Post #10 of 94 (1412 views)
Shortcut
Wow, what a massive simplification... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
So thus it was a tension loss because I do not believe The Witch King is as powerful as a Balrog when a Women can beat him.


I don't think Eowyn's gender had the inherent power of making her able to slay the Witchking- it was a prophecy spoken I think by Cirdan (correct me if I am wrong?). It said that no man would kill him and suggested he would be defeated in ways unlooked for- i.e. a woman and a hobbit killing him.

Merry's blade was forged in Numenor (at the time he ruled Angmar) which was essentially able to "break the spell that bound his hidden sinews to his iron will", leaving him vulnerable to attack. Theoretically Merry could have finished the job himself but all blades that strike the evil wraith perish, and touching any Nazgul brings on a dread sickness called the Black Breath.


This is a complete side discussion (sorry), and is my interpretation. Is it right?


TheGoblinKing
Rohan

Mar 17 2012, 9:59pm

Post #11 of 94 (1383 views)
Shortcut
Well [In reply to] Can't Post

I did remember merry Stabbing him but a person would not get his Dagger was special if did not have the EE FOTR movie. I just assumed that his dagger was elf made like Bilbos sting.
Thats another question
Why does Sting Glow and Aragorns Dagger and legolas Swords never did.


DanielLB
Immortal


Mar 17 2012, 10:02pm

Post #12 of 94 (1395 views)
Shortcut
Sting, Glamdring and Orcrist [In reply to] Can't Post

Were made in Gondolin during the First Age. They all glowed when orcs/goblins were nearby.

Aragorn's and Legolas' weapons were not of Gondolin


Mooseboy018
Gondor


Mar 17 2012, 10:16pm

Post #13 of 94 (1324 views)
Shortcut
the worst part is... [In reply to] Can't Post

He didn't even use the Noldor dagger he got from Lothlorien on the Witch King. He just used the small Rohan sword he had.

That detail has always REALLY annoyed me.


Mooseboy018
Gondor


Mar 17 2012, 10:18pm

Post #14 of 94 (1318 views)
Shortcut
super Witch King [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it was mentioned in one of Tolkien's letters.


DanielLB
Immortal


Mar 17 2012, 10:22pm

Post #15 of 94 (1337 views)
Shortcut
This letter? [In reply to] Can't Post

Trying to have a think, but this is on wikipedia


Quote
They would have obeyed . . . any minor command of his that did not interfere with their errand - laid upon them by Sauron, who still through their nine rings (which he held) had primary control of their wills . . . — The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter 246



DanielLB
Immortal


Mar 17 2012, 10:24pm

Post #16 of 94 (1388 views)
Shortcut
ssssh [In reply to] Can't Post

Minor detail Wink

Otherwise we will get more questions!


imin
Valinor

Mar 17 2012, 11:36pm

Post #17 of 94 (1341 views)
Shortcut
i [In reply to] Can't Post

didnt get that impression of gandalf being 'only' an old man, the witch king and gandalf must have respected each other on a level of 'ooh he might be able to hurt me' level atleast thats what i get from the book, the movie to me just weakens gandalf to the point where i think its fair to assume he would have lost if the battle of continued, but like you say it makes you think gondors only hope is with rohan arriving.

Where in the FOTR EE does it show merry getting the barrow down blade or anything other than a blade given to him by aragorn when they are at weathertop? Its been awhile since i last seen the movie so i genuinely cant remember.


Ereinion Nénharma
Lorien

Mar 18 2012, 12:00am

Post #18 of 94 (1344 views)
Shortcut
Witch King XL [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I think it was mentioned in one of Tolkien's letters.


Could be, I´m not sure...


In Reply To
Trying to have a think, but this is on wikipedia


Quote
They would have obeyed . . . any minor command of his that did not interfere with their errand - laid upon them by Sauron, who still through their nine rings (which he held) had primary control of their wills . . . — The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter 246



No, I don´t mean this part. It was something like ´and Sauron added him (The Witch King) with additional demonic power'. Something like that. Is it not in LOTR itself?

''Do not fear the shadows, for seeing them means light is near...''


TheGoblinKing
Rohan

Mar 18 2012, 12:23am

Post #19 of 94 (1364 views)
Shortcut
In the EE Version Of FOTR [In reply to] Can't Post

Merry and Pippin were given elf knifes and i assumed its why when Merry stabs The Witch King it hurts him. To an elf they are knifes. To A Hbbit its likely Dagger sized. I believe the sequence of the gift giving is on disc 2 after Frodo is freaked out by Galadrial and the Mirror


imin
Valinor

Mar 18 2012, 12:58am

Post #20 of 94 (1275 views)
Shortcut
oh ok [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought he stabbed the witch king with the blade aragorn found somewhere in the wild on weathertop, will have to watch them after i read through lotr again.


imin
Valinor

Mar 18 2012, 1:01am

Post #21 of 94 (1327 views)
Shortcut
letter 210 is what ur looking for// [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Mooseboy018
Gondor


Mar 18 2012, 4:16am

Post #22 of 94 (1308 views)
Shortcut
Not the one I was thinking of, but good find. [In reply to] Can't Post

The one I'm thinking of directly mentions the fact that the Witch King is more powerful during the Battle of Pelennor Fields. I'll have to look for it.


Mooseboy018
Gondor


Mar 18 2012, 4:24am

Post #23 of 94 (1374 views)
Shortcut
Merry's weapons in the movies [In reply to] Can't Post

1. the sword from Aragorn: he loses it after charging the uruk-hai during Boromir's final stand

2. the Noldor dagger from Galadriel: it's not in its sheath when Grishnakh grabs his belt, so it can be assumed the uruk-hai disposed of it

3. the Rohan sword he presents to Theoden: he uses it to stab the Witch King, and it was probably destroyed

4. his second Rohan sword he uses at the Black Gate: assuming his first was destroyed after wounding the Witch King


PattyJB
Rivendell


Mar 18 2012, 5:18am

Post #24 of 94 (1450 views)
Shortcut
Glorfindel makes the prophecy [In reply to] Can't Post

at the end of the Battle of Fornost.

"Do not pursue him [the Witch-king]! He will not return to these lands. Far off yet is his doom, and not by the hand of man shall he fall."


TheGoblinKing
Rohan

Mar 18 2012, 7:05am

Post #25 of 94 (1233 views)
Shortcut
I Was Thinking [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe the fact is that its not about Merry using and Elvish Blade but maybe the fact The Witch King was not stabbed by a human meaning men but a Hobbit. Merry is not Human so maybe that was the loop hole that opened it up for Eowyn To beat him.
I still however believe Aragorn could have beaten The Witch King. I think so because. In Star Wars the Force was Always with Luke and Obi Wan. So my feeling is Aragorn was liked by greater powers then that of Dark Saurons.

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 Next page Last page  View All
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.