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DanielLB
Immortal
Mar 16 2012, 6:29pm
Post #1 of 55
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*Spoilers* The Demise of Characters
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*Be warned, spoilers ahead*
I had intended having the title to the thread as: "Thorin's Funeral" - but realised it was incredibly spoilerific so went for something more vague. Anyway....
What are people's opinions/views on how we will be shown Thorin's funeral (and Fili and Kili of course)?
The book gives very little detail on the "funeral" itself, apart from that Thorin is buried under the Mountain with the Arkenstone and his sword, Orcrist. So how will it pan out. Will we see it at all? Will it be an epilogue type scene, with brief glances of the Arkenstone being laid with Thorin, or will it be a fully-fledged scene?
I for one am hoping for a full scene to the "funeral", very much like Alan Lee's painting here:
http://fantasy.mrugala.net/...20the%20mountain.jpg
Just looking at the picture you can imagine all the characters, standing around, a very sad atmosphere to the tragic end of 3 of the company. Boromir and Theoden were the only main characters to die in the trilogy. While Boromir was sent over the falls, we were not treated to Theoden's funeral, but we were to Theodred's. It's something very different that we would get, simply because we had nothing like it during the trilogy.
I get quite excited (....) over the thought of this scene, especially with the above picture.   Sends a shiver down my spine!
What are your thoughts?
(Other things to consider - how will they also deal with the other people that fall during the battle? Will Fili and Kili be laid to rest next to Thorin, including other killed Dwarves? Will it just be ignored like in the trilogy (ie. those that died during Helm's Deep and Pelennor)? Will Tauriel die and add another tragic death?)
Sorry for having a not so cheery topic!
(This post was edited by DanielLB on Mar 16 2012, 6:36pm)
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WrathOfCaradhras
The Shire
Mar 16 2012, 7:53pm
Post #2 of 55
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Tauriel to die during the battle. Until we get more information about her character, I think it is likely that she we not survive the Battle of Five Armies. The Elves need to have casualties during the battle and having a named character die during the battle (like Haldir at Helm's Deep) what allow the audience to sympathize with the Elves. It can't be Thranduril or Legolas, so the only character that we will likely get to know and care about dying is Tauriel. It would show that the Dwarves aren't the only faction to have important characters fall in battle. It may be unlikely, but I would like to think that Tauriel's death will have an effect on Legolas (no need for a romance, they can simply be good friends). Based on what Evangeline Lily has said about her character, her array of weapons is very similar to those that Legolas wields in the trilogy. It could simply be the typical Mirkwood weaponry, but I think it would be cool to see Legolas honoring his fallen comrade memory by using her weapons (like how Aragorn used Boromir's wrist guards after his death).
I do think we will get to see some sort of funeral for Thorin. It could be very interesting to see how the Dwarves bury their dead and compare it to that of Rohan.
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Nightingale
Rohan
Mar 16 2012, 9:02pm
Post #4 of 55
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is very atmospheric. For Thorin's actual funeral, I am imagining something a little like the funeral of Theodred, but set in a cave-type atmosphere with lots of flaming torches. I think both the 'norse' type patterns and details in both the funeral of Theodred and the passing of Boromir would suit Thorin's funeral well.
"You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me" - C. S. Lewis
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DanielLB
Immortal
Mar 16 2012, 9:37pm
Post #5 of 55
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I can see it on film now. A solemn mood and atmosphere - a great way to end the films.
I'm hoping for something a little longer than Theodred's funeral though, seeing how it's 3 main characters.
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Nightingale
Rohan
Mar 16 2012, 9:38pm
Post #6 of 55
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Oh, I definitely agree it should be longer
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but that's the kind of feel...
"You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me" - C. S. Lewis
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Danielos
Rohan
Mar 16 2012, 10:33pm
Post #8 of 55
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Kill off a few more dwarves in movie 1, please...
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I think some dwarves should be killed off in the first movie as well. They encounter trolls, goblins, wargs and spiders. Since PJ aims to make these Middle Earth-movies "semi-realistic" it would only seem reasonable that all these dangers should account for several deaths, otherwise they would feel like the imperial stormtroopers; everyone say they are dangerous, but they are unable to ever show it!
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DanielLB
Immortal
Mar 16 2012, 10:38pm
Post #9 of 55
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Are you referring to having one of the 13 being killed during TABA? It's not going to happen. Having additional deaths wouldn't make the films any more realistic, exciting or enjoyable.
(This post was edited by DanielLB on Mar 16 2012, 10:39pm)
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Danielos
Rohan
Mar 16 2012, 10:42pm
Post #10 of 55
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I´m refering to movie one. Yes, I think a few of them should be killed off during various stages of the journey. It would seem silly and too fairytale to have all of them survive all the way until the final battle.
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DanielLB
Immortal
Mar 16 2012, 10:48pm
Post #11 of 55
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Sorry for the confusion
And I certainly don't think that more Dwarves should die. Each one of them is there for a reason - they all have a role to play in the journey + and after the quest. If we had a one dwarf die each time they encountered an enemy, the audience/reader would not gain a bound with that Dwarf (especially as there are already 13 and very little time to form a bound). Imagine if Dwalin died by the trolls. Would you care for him after watching for just 40 minutes? Probably not. What about 20 minutes later when Bifur dies by an Orc? It wouldn't make any sense, and would slow down the film incredibly.
There is a reason why Tolkien didn't have more deaths - to make the death of Thorin, Fili and Kili as tragic as possible. And it works.
And if more died, how would you then explain Balin and Ori etc going to Moria, and what the others get up to after the quest. It would mess up the future storyline.
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Symbelmine
Rohan
Mar 16 2012, 10:58pm
Post #12 of 55
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Death and funeral of Kili, Fili and Thorin will be the saddest part of the movie. At least for me it will be so I wish it was as shortest as possible especially Kili and Fili's death.
I'm afraid I will have to leave the cinema because I will cry too loudly.
I think Tauriel will die too. Hopefully
Don't think Legolas will mourn over her grave and used her weapons to honor a death of his comrade (don't expect they will be comrades) as someone speculated here. I rather expect some of her guard colleague or colleagues (or maybe family or love interest if some will be there) to deal with that loss.
(This post was edited by Symbelmine on Mar 16 2012, 10:59pm)
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Mar 16 2012, 11:19pm
Post #13 of 55
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Yes, I hope we get this. And no, no more dwarven casualties, especially not in the first picture!
Is Tolkien a good writer, or amateurish and dated? Join the discussion of Tolkien: A Cultural Phenomenon by Brian Rosebury, now playing in the Reading Room!
Elizabeth is the TORnsib formerly known as 'erather'
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DanielLB
Immortal
Mar 16 2012, 11:27pm
Post #14 of 55
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Sorry, I realise my mistake now
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Took me a while to realise I meant AUJ not TABA
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Sinister71
Tol Eressea
Mar 16 2012, 11:28pm
Post #15 of 55
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Tauriel is killed off in the films  ... I personally think she's a non necessary character anyways.
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GoodGuyA
Lorien
Mar 17 2012, 2:14am
Post #16 of 55
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What do the elves matter if there's only one solitary being who represents them? We need flipping character in societies, not just stand-bys.
-- personal comment about someone else edited - Altaira
(This post was edited by Altaira on Mar 17 2012, 4:01pm)
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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor
Mar 17 2012, 2:21am
Post #17 of 55
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And try not to insult people. That is, after all, a violation of this messageboard's terms of service.
Someone with a different opinion than you about the Hobbit films (and an opinion that is more in line with the Hobbit books, no less) is not a "fool." Such a person is, simply, someone with a different opinion than you.
The one who labels that person a fool is likely more deserving of the term.
(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Mar 17 2012, 2:23am)
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imin
Valinor
Mar 17 2012, 7:16am
Post #18 of 55
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there is more than 1 elf in the hobbit book, no need to make up another one.
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She was put in there not to add to the numbers but because she is a female and to balance out a very male cast. I can see why they are doing it but like others here i dont think it is needed and unless they write her part brilliantly then i kinda hope she just fades away as a character or gets killed, but im doubtful either of those things will happen.
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Thorins_apprentice
Rohan
Mar 17 2012, 7:26am
Post #19 of 55
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The lamentation of the Dwarves.
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Will be too much to bear.A wailing succession of Baritoned voices echoing in the Halls singing Gregorian chants (possibly in Dwarven)Is going to be both epic and powerfully emotional.
Judging by the picture being Alan lee;s work PJ will want to replicate that scene to the T.
We are more connected than ever before, more able to spread our ideas and beliefs, our anger and fears. As we exercise the right to advocate our views, and as we animate our supporters, we must all assume responsibility for our words and actions before they enter a vast echo chamber and reach those both serious and delirious, connected and unhinged.
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imin
Valinor
Mar 17 2012, 7:49am
Post #20 of 55
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what you have imagined sounds like something i really cannot wait to see!
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I am really liking everyones ideas for this scene, i just hope they are half as good on screen, haha!
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DanielLB
Immortal
Mar 17 2012, 9:04am
Post #21 of 55
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I'm sure PJ won't let us down. It's the culmination of both films - I'm sure it will be great 
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HelmHammerHand
The Shire
Mar 17 2012, 9:30am
Post #22 of 55
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Hello - i'm a newbie though i've been reading looking around the forums for a while now. I've finally decided to sign up!
I'm not sure Tauriel will be killed off, that doesn't feel right somehow - but I am surprised that Radagast has not been mentioned. Personally I think he is doomed. After all it would seem strange that he does not appear in LOTR (films) if he does not die in TH. besides he was always a 'bigger' character in the LOTR (book) than in TH - I think he only has one or two vague references from Gandalf and Beorn! Why else have PJ and co decided to (apparently) invest so much time in him?
I suppose he could die at the end of film one rather than in BOFA though...
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DanielLB
Immortal
Mar 17 2012, 10:04am
Post #23 of 55
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Welcome to TORN, HelmHammerHand!
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You raise a good point - is Tauriel more likely to die than Radagast? I'm not entirely sure what the answer would/should be.
As I have said in past threads, we are always going to have people asking why "so and so" didn't turn up in the LOTR trilogy (Radagast, Beorn, Thranduil etc.) It's the same to why the eagles just didn't simply fly to Mordor. We are always going to get asked these questions - but the answer is simple - there is more to Middle-Earth than we see on screen. We don't need to see Radagast in the trilogy as he could have been off doing other things at the time of the War of the Ring. Does this mean he should die to solve the issue? I don't know.
I think it is probably likely that either Tauriel or Radagast will die, to add to Fili, Kili and Thorin. I don't think it should be both characters as it would just be too much.
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geordie
Tol Eressea
Mar 17 2012, 1:02pm
Post #24 of 55
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And unnecessary. And also untrue - no-one on these boards is a fool. Certainly holding a point of view different to your own doesn't make them so. I think you owe sinister71 an apology.
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Nightingale
Rohan
Mar 17 2012, 2:48pm
Post #25 of 55
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I can see it now... I'm going to need the tissues... 
"You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me" - C. S. Lewis
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