|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ibrîniðilpathânezel
Registered User
Mar 11 2012, 1:51am
Post #26 of 207
(2980 views)
Shortcut
|
|
a reconciliation between motion-capture and a lack of physical form
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
First post yipee! Something that popped into mind is perhaps have Sauron's form, whatever it is, even if only vaguely humanoid, only visible in the "spirit world", akin to when Frodo sees the five wraths on Weathertop. In this form Sauron could perhaps be humanoid and allow Cumberbatch to perform for the motion capture, while maintaining that Sauron had no humanoid form in the normal, visible world. Gandalf thus could be aware of Sauron's "nameless fear" spirit form, and as the bearer of Narya (during the hobbit, he wore it as well yes??). Also this solution I think allows Sauron to maintain the fiery eye(s), just as Frodo sees them when wearing the ring. This could be a transition for PJ to explain Sauron's FOTR appearance as an eye. But the problem I have with my own hypothesis is what exactly will the Necromancer be? Just some spirit (humanoid or not); or perhaps someone possessed? Or perhaps a red herring altogether, a figure that Gandalf finds doesn't exist?
|
|
|
Black Breathalizer
Rohan
Mar 11 2012, 2:10am
Post #27 of 207
(3026 views)
Shortcut
|
Welcome to the board, Ibrîniðilpathânezel
Ibrîniðilpathânezel wrote: what exactly will the Necromancer be? Just some spirit (humanoid or not); or perhaps someone possessed?
The spirit of Sauron possesses someone else's body? Now that's an intriguing take!
It would certainly be a way for the Necromancer to die in defeat in Film 2 while showing Sauron's spirit fleeing back to Mordor. That could work.
|
|
|
Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Mar 11 2012, 2:34am
Post #28 of 207
(3056 views)
Shortcut
|
|
"A fair jaw-cracker dwarf-language must be!"
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I know your nick isn't Khuzdul but I think I'd strain a tongue-muscle trying to pronounce it!
Welcome to TORN ... er, Ibrin. ;)
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
|
|
|
imin
Valinor
Mar 11 2012, 2:37am
Post #29 of 207
(2974 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Welcome to the board, coming from someone who joined just a couple of days ago, lol
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Sauron could just die in the battle of five armies or from an attack on dol guldur from his own body being 'killed' as in the hobbit he was in physical form. No need for some zombie/exorcist possession, though that would be scary to see on screen in more ways than one, lol.
I think they will show sauron in a humanoid physical form (but of greater stature, which tolkien states,) like he is shown as in the prologue of FOTR, but then be defeated in either the battle of the five armies (really hope not) or from an attack on dol guldur which makes his physical body die and he flees to mordor as a spirit which would allow the movies to connect together nicely.
|
|
|
Black Breathalizer
Rohan
Mar 11 2012, 2:55am
Post #30 of 207
(3154 views)
Shortcut
|
imin wrote: Sauron could just die in the battle of five armies or from an attack on dol guldur from his own body being 'killed' as in the hobbit he was in physical form.
Actually, Sauron's physical body was destroyed when Isildur cut the ring from his hand in the Last Alliance. So any body the Dark Lord would possess in The Hobbit films would not be his own.
|
|
|
Longbottom Leaf
Lorien
Mar 11 2012, 2:56am
Post #31 of 207
(2859 views)
Shortcut
|
Ibrin and imin: Welcome my friends...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
to the show that never ends. Come inside,come inside. Some interesting ideas here. If I continue to ponder all the possibilities for the necromancer at this capacity my brain might melt! Ahhhhhhhhhh I can't take the suspense!
The best weed in the southfarthing!
|
|
|
imin
Valinor
Mar 11 2012, 3:05am
Post #32 of 207
(3006 views)
Shortcut
|
however in the third age 1000 he had started to take physical form again, as im sure you are aware the hobbit and lotr takes places long after this, so no he would have a physical body in the hobbit and the lord of the rings, hence how gollum knows as a previous poster on this thread says gollum knew sauron had a black hand with four fingers (counting thumb as a finger).
|
|
|
Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor
Mar 11 2012, 3:47am
Post #33 of 207
(2862 views)
Shortcut
|
|
That seems a bit hackneyed and B-movie horror schlockish
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
So I hope PJ doesn't do that.
My guess is that we will get a shadowy, vapory form, as BlackBreathalizer has described (great name, BTW), with the vague contours of a face. And perhaps, that face will have a small, burning eye in one socket...
The way I visualized Sauron's eye from LOTR was certainly not physical. However, I always thought it would have been creepily effective if PJ gave us a Sauron with a touch of Edgar Allen Poe. My vision was that of Sauron, a shadowy form at the top of Barad Dur, peeking out of a high window, with his lidless eye. Something like this or this, only with a much more shadowy face and body, and a dark tower window. A window, perhaps, like this one.
IMO, that would have been far more effective than the eyeball lighthouse, which I always thought was an uninspired "I give up" design.
Update: Here's another look that meets my vision. Perhaps Sauron can peer out of a window in Dol Guldur?
(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Mar 11 2012, 3:55am)
|
|
|
Ziggy Stardust
Gondor
Mar 11 2012, 4:52am
Post #34 of 207
(2758 views)
Shortcut
|
So I hope PJ doesn't do that. My guess is that we will get a shadowy, vapory form, as BlackBreathalizer has described (great name, BTW), with the vague contours of a face. And perhaps, that face will have a small, burning eye in one socket... The way I visualized Sauron's eye from LOTR was certainly not physical. However, I always thought it would have been creepily effective if PJ gave us a Sauron with a touch of Edgar Allen Poe. My vision was that of Sauron, a shadowy form at the top of Barad Dur, peeking out of a high window, with his lidless eye. Something like this or this, only with a much more shadowy face and body, and a dark tower window. A window, perhaps, like this one. IMO, that would have been far more effective than the eyeball lighthouse, which I always thought was an uninspired "I give up" design. Update: Here's another look that meets my vision. Perhaps Sauron can peer out of a window in Dol Guldur?
I like this idea. Having the Necromancer be a dark, smokey silhouette will give a good affect. By the way, the links to those website are eerie!  It's 11:00 at night where I am, and I was looking at those sites.
|
|
|
DanielLB
Immortal
Mar 11 2012, 10:00am
Post #35 of 207
(2935 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Until someone gives/shows some evidence of this, I have no idea what your on about! /
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
|
|
|
Ereinion Nénharma
Lorien
Mar 11 2012, 10:26am
Post #36 of 207
(2756 views)
Shortcut
|
that would have been a way better portrayal of Sauron than the one PJ came up with. Actually the portrayal of Sauron is the one thing I really would want to change in the trilogy. But, now I just have to keep telling myself the Eye is not Sauron, but his palantir enhanced with his powers.
''Do not fear the shadows, for seeing them means light is near...''
(This post was edited by Ereinion Nénharma on Mar 11 2012, 10:27am)
|
|
|
Danielos
Rohan
Mar 11 2012, 11:36am
Post #37 of 207
(2717 views)
Shortcut
|
I think Sauron and Mordor is like the Galactic empire of Star Wars. Everyone seems to fear them and their power, but when all is said and done, they never manage to accomplish anything and loses every time. Seeing Sauron getting his butts kicked AGAIN in these movies would have the audience almost feel sorry for him and this feeble "Dark lord" and his incompetent minions. I wish these movies could show Sauron having a big victory, but alas that is impossible in the continuity with LOTR.
|
|
|
Ereinion Nénharma
Lorien
Mar 11 2012, 12:07pm
Post #38 of 207
(2768 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Never thought of it that way...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
but you are quite right. Well, even more reason for PJ to make a Downfall of Numenor movie. Then everybody can see on the big screen that Sauron did accomplish 'something'...
''Do not fear the shadows, for seeing them means light is near...''
(This post was edited by Ereinion Nénharma on Mar 11 2012, 12:10pm)
|
|
|
imin
Valinor
Mar 11 2012, 12:17pm
Post #39 of 207
(2856 views)
Shortcut
|
All of eriador fell under sauron's control apart from rivendell which was besieged, so he triumphed for a few years there (5 i think). I know ultimately he lost but that was against all the elves of eriador and the fleets of the numenoreans not to mention he helped create the rings of power which caused so much trouble in ME.
|
|
|
DanielLB
Immortal
Mar 11 2012, 1:47pm
Post #40 of 207
(2709 views)
Shortcut
|
|
It's not as easy as black and white
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Lose and win, in terms of Sauron, isn't as clear cut as black and white. Yes he "lost" in the end, but he wreaked havoc, killed and imprisoned innocent people of ME etc etc. He was a very successful Dark Lord, and accomplished a lot.
|
|
|
Junesong
Rohan
Mar 11 2012, 9:59pm
Post #41 of 207
(2597 views)
Shortcut
|
"He was a very successful Dark Lord, and accomplished a lot."
This made me laugh because I suddenly imagined it as the epitaph on Sauron's headstone.
"Tim... Canterbury... Canterbury Tales... Chaucer... Shakespeare."
|
|
|
Bombadil
Half-elven
Mar 12 2012, 12:03am
Post #42 of 207
(2788 views)
Shortcut
|
I don't think many, if any would go to his Funeral...and
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
he got buried under the Rubble of Barah-dur anyway...or didn't he?
|
|
|
Kangi Ska
Half-elven
Mar 12 2012, 12:06am
Post #43 of 207
(2670 views)
Shortcut
|
|
He was vaporized and blown away on the wind.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Maia are immortal.
Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.
At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Mar 12 2012, 12:07am)
|
|
|
TFP
Lorien
Mar 12 2012, 12:08am
Post #44 of 207
(2540 views)
Shortcut
|
"He was a very successful Dark Lord, and accomplished a lot."
This made me laugh because I suddenly imagined it as the epitaph on Sauron's headstone.
Yes or perhaps on a job application/interview, when forced to explain the lengthy periods of time out of the market.
Although there's a degree of ambiguity, taken together the weight of evidence from tolkien's various books & letters fairly strongly points to sauron having a physical form not unlike the one shown at the beginning of FOTR.
I expect most people have seen 'the mummy' film, where the monster slowly takes form, I suppose I imagine Sauron undergoing a similar process. You could argue that PJ painted himself into a bit of a corner with his ridiculous eye, but even in FOTR aragorn near the end suggests that the lord of the black lands should. One forth etc.
I think we'll most likely see FOTR sauron again, possibly a bit blurry round the edges, possibly sitting rather than standing, and just maybe not wearing his mask/helmet thing...
|
|
|
Vangalad
Lorien
Mar 12 2012, 1:33am
Post #45 of 207
(2724 views)
Shortcut
|
Personally I wasn't bothered by the way PJ introduced Sauron in the trilogy,but wanted to see more of his character. As an image, the Eye was frightening (and innovative) serving emphasize the urgency to destroy the ring so that Sauron won't repossess his former power, but the audience was left with the impression that this is all there is about this character.
Sauron was revealed to his enemies and his minions as the great eye but we never get to see what he actually looks like beyond that... Admittedly there is a mystery around his actual form and PJ should have given the main villain more depth...(but we can't have it all done perfect, right?)
I wonder how is he going to glue this necro-eye-sauron stuff in the hobbit?
Well,now we come to the hobbit era and PJ expresses his intent to further explore Sauron's nature(!?),what he was in the past and what he becomes later on. If this plan is to be visualized then I'm suspecting there will be a flashback ,1st or 2nd age,showing his ways as a shapeshifter and his rise to power and of course we have the infamous Necromancer...This could be Sauron's ''under construction'' dark humanoid form, but i don't want to see another Voldemort or another nazgul, it must be something interesting and intriguing.
Perhaps the creators have taken their time around the long pre-production period and come to a design which will be worth visualizing(please no show off at the bo5a) and living up to expectations.
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
|
|
|
Longbottom Leaf
Lorien
Mar 12 2012, 3:03am
Post #46 of 207
(2574 views)
Shortcut
|
Hahaha! Now that's funny stuff right there!!
The best weed in the southfarthing!
|
|
|
DanielLB
Immortal
Mar 12 2012, 8:11am
Post #47 of 207
(2461 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I knew someone would comment on that
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I'm rubbish at writing long, lengthy, deep and meanigful posts. Keep it short and sweet
|
|
|
Hanzkaz
Rohan
Mar 12 2012, 8:53am
Post #48 of 207
(2513 views)
Shortcut
|
They could depict Sauron's Dol Guldur-era form as being a 'work in progress' of sorts (whether humanoid, spirit or something else) which somehow (in the films) gets 'damaged' by the White Council.
Sauron may conclude - due to his so far fruitless efforts - that another (most likely temporary) form would be more suitable to aid his search for the Ring.
The Maia did seem to have a habit of choosing forms which suited their purposes, so I would be surprised if the Dark Lord picked one most likely to enhance his senses
|
|
|
DanielLB
Immortal
Mar 12 2012, 9:07am
Post #49 of 207
(2619 views)
Shortcut
|
They could depict Sauron's Dol Guldur-era form as being a 'work in progress' of sorts (whether humanoid, spirit or something else) which somehow (in the films) gets 'damaged' by the White Council. Sauron may conclude - due to his so far fruitless efforts - that another (most likely temporary) form would be more suitable to aid his search for the Ring.
The Maia did seem to have a habit of choosing forms which suited their purposes, so I would be surprised if the Dark Lord picked one most likely to enhance his senses I quite like this idea, that after defeat, Sauron needs a more suitable form in his quest for the Ring. The problem I see, however, is, how exactly is an eye more beneficial then any other form? Unless, as others have suggested, that the "maximum" form he can take at the moment is the eye, slowly turning more and more humanoid ala The Mummy? Another issue would be, are they going to show this? The Hobbit is about Bilbo's journey. How efficient would it be at the end of the film to show Sauron deciding what disguise he should use? More questions, less answers 
|
|
|
Turnip Head
Bree
Mar 12 2012, 9:39am
Post #50 of 207
(2576 views)
Shortcut
|
|
If he does appear in wraith form...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
...I pray to Eru that he looks cooler than the Dead Army in RotK.
|
|
|
|
|
