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Hamfast Gamgee
Dor-Lomin
Mar 5 2012, 12:24am
Post #1 of 6
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Hobbit character discussion schedule, Dori, Nori and Ori
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Lots of ri's! What can I say about these three members of the supporting cast of the company? Well, of the 3 I might suggest that Dori has the largest role. He firstly picks up Mr. Baggins when the company is been chased by Goblins in the Misty Mountains, and later on he saves Bilbo's life from the Wrags and Bilbo hangs onto his legs as they are carried by Eagles to their eeries. So that is quite important I think!
Nori seems to be the strong and silent one. Or at least he is silent. He doesn't say much throughout the book, whoever plays him in the movies won't have that many lines to learn. Though his one main speaking role is quite vital as he is the one that notices that Bilbo doesn't climb a tree when they are attacked by Wrags on the borders of the Misty Mountains and suggests that Dori picks the Hobbit up, his death is never recorded and Gloin never even mentions the fellow to Frodo much later on at Rivendell. Perhaps that is a sign that he lived to a ripe old age and died peacefully and happy!
Ori again is one that doesn't do much that dramatic in the tale compared to others. Perhaps his moment of 'glory,' for want of a better word comes later as he is one that accompanies Balin to Moria and dies in the dark as the Dwarves their are slaughtered by Orcs. And he writes much of the notes of the recording diary of the years of the colony. In Elven characters and he writes well, for all the use that is when one is besieged by hoardes of angry Orcs! Actually, though, a point about Moria. Why is Ori the only one of the three brothers that goes there? Did they have a falling out in the Lonely mountain? Or were the other two simply too cowardly or too sensible to go? This does seem a bit strange!
I would like here to take the opportunity to say a few words about the minor Dwarves in general. This week I have talked about 5 Dwarves. That's it. Only 5. Not that many when one considers all of the Dwarves that must have been about in ME at the time. But did these Dwarves make that much of a difference individually or as a group. Suppose the company was say 9 rather than 14. Maybe that would have been too small a number to have dealt with all of the perils they faced. So why not have a party of 30 Dwarves? Perhaps not all were to be trusted? Maybe 30 might have quarreled amongst themselves. Still it's something worth thinking about.
Anyway, of course any other points about these three, anyone might have, please put them here, thanks!
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sador
Gondolin
Mar 11 2012, 3:48pm
Post #2 of 6
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I've mentioned before the casting calls, as collected by QuackingTroll. While in some cases they seem pretty off the mark, the description of Dori, Nori and Ori sounds true:
These three brothers, all sons of the same mother, could not be more different from each other. Dori, the oldest, spends much of his time watching out for Ori, the youngest; making sure he’s not caught a chill or got himself killed by Wargs or Goblins. Nobody quite knows what Nori gets up to most of the time, except that it’s guaranteed to be dodgy and quite probably, illegal. Dori, Nori and Ori are intensely loyal to each other – and whilst they are perfectly happy fighting amongst themselves, woe-betide anyone who means harm to one of these brothers.
Well, I'm not sure true is the correct term. But it is familiar: it reminds me of three uncles I've had (only two are left). And as I've associated the three dwarves with the three relatives, I am prejudiced in favour of it. Perhaps there is something in Adler's theories?
Anyway:
Dori
Dori seems clearly the leader of the three, and in the chapters IV-VII is actually quite prominent - to the extent that Curious named him one of the four dwarves who have a personality.
However, his prominence is basically in his strength and being a "decent fellow". He carries Bilbo after Gandalf resued the dwarves from the goblins; and he does it on his own initiative, while even Gandalf forgets about the poor burglar. Some time later he is carrying Bilbo again (for all we know, with only one relief in the meantime). The only thanks he gets for his gumption and hardihood is being scolded by Gandalf after he dropped Bilbo (and the wizard apparantly forgot to count them, like he did the first time).
After Bilbo is reunited with his companions, Dori is nudged by his brother to pick him up, and is finally commanded by Thorin to do so. He might seem a mere grumbler for this; but then he is courageous enough to actually climb down and let Bilbo scramble up upon his back! And as a matter of fact, being the strongest dwarf one would suppose he would be agile enough to climb higher than the others - could he be lower down because he was escorting Bilbo before? Naturally, no good deed goes unpunished - and he also has to fly to the Eagles' eyrie with poor Bilbo holding on to his legs as an additional weight.
After that he rises even higher - being Thorin's companion on the first couple to be introduced to Beorn!
Later, when crossing the Enchanted River, his strength is deemed less useful than Fili's eyes; but he still is on the second boat to cross (Nori and Ori are relegated to the third, probably because Oin and Gloin helped pulling the boat across the river), and is the second watchman to see the wood-elves fires. Once again, this points to his importance - at least in Tolkien's memory.
After that, Dori effectively disappears. Save for once; in Not at Home, Dori is twice the example of a terrorized dwarf, always afraid Smaug might be around! I've discussed this episode here; see especially Darkstone's answer.
One last thing which should be noticed is Dori's sense of humour. From his groaning that a wizard would be useful when he's hungry (in Roast Mutton) through his complaint about being a porter to his retort to Bilbo regarding Eagles' not being forks and Bilbo's not being bacon, his humour is second only to Thorin's (well, Fili comes a close third).
Nori
It seems clear that Nori is the second of the three. He is even rescued with Dori by Bilbo from the spiders, while Ori is not (he is rescued later by the other dwarves).
Nori has two lines - one with Dori (regarding the desirability of Gandalf as a meal-provider, and agreeing with Bilbo on the importance of regular and plentiful meals), and the other is indeed his reminding Dori that Bilbo was left behind. So he shares his borther's traits, but accepts it as natural that the elder should do all the hard work. Isn't that typical younger brother behaviour?
However, this line of yours is wrong:
his death is never recorded and Gloin never even mentions the fellow to Frodo much later on at Rivendell
Gloin did mention that of Throin's companions, seven were still alive - and he named Nori among them.
Ori
Well, Ori is the least-mentioned of all thirteen dwarves in The Hobbit, and he hasn't got a single line of his own; except for "Ori at your -" to be cut in mid-sentence by Beorn (IIRC; I haven't got the book here).
However, his going to Moria with Balin, and his being a scribe who prefers Elvish script are intriguing. It makes sense that he might be the scribe of Thorin's company (of course, in The Hobbit there is no mention of this - I guess Tolkien just wanted to give him some role in Moria).
Does the Elvish script mean anything? Not necessarily any connection or affinity with Elves: after all, the runes were more natural for inscribing or carving, while the Feanorean letters fit paper far better. At the very least, this speaks to Ori's competence. But I won't take it amiss if Jackson and co. show him as wandering in the Rivendell library, or as instructing Bilbo in how best to keep a diary. 
Prominence in the lists
As I've mentioned before, these three come nearly always before Oin and Gloin (the Enchanted River is the exception), but in Durin's Folk they are demoted, and not even of royal lineage. Why is this?
In Curious' post I linked to above, he suggested that it was the character of Gimli who ensured his father's nobility, to which I agree - although it is odd coming from Curious of all people, seeing how much he dislikes classism! But I'm afraid this is the external explanation, perhaps combined with Dori's breakdown in Not at Home.
But once we've arrived there, the question is their prominence in all the lists in The Hobbit, especially when introduced to Beorn! I don't think this was entirely random, and I'm sure that Tolkien would have considered this point had the 1960 rewrite gotten anywhere.
As I indicated in a previous post, the most obvious way would be by connecting these three to the one unknown in the geneology of Durin's Folk: the missing father of Fili and Kili.
I won't go as far as suggesting Dori for this role. While Tolkien might have considered this solution, it is very radical and would necessiate changing a lot of the published material. Not beyond Tolkien - but with nothing to support it, and well beyond what any fan should seriously consider. But I still think that a senior thane of Thorin's might get to be his brother-in-law, and the said thane's cousins and heirs would explain nicely the lists. A UUT, of course - but I do not feel it is either wild or far-fetched.
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Modtheow
Menegroth
Mar 11 2012, 8:10pm
Post #3 of 6
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I've been reading the ongoing Hobbit discussions with interest, but I don't have anything to add right now. I'm sure there are others in the same position. These posts are really helping me to see the distinguishing features of each of the characters under discussion, so thanks for this thread.
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Hamfast Gamgee
Dor-Lomin
Mar 12 2012, 12:26am
Post #4 of 6
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Oh, and I'm not the only one that reads the character lists am I? The one thing I did slightly disagree with it is the idea that what Nori gets up to is illegal! I mean, am I supposed to think that anyone who happens to be a bit silent is also up to no good? And just how does one define illegal in ME at the time anyway outside the Shire?
That's one thing I missed was that Dori was the strongest of the Dwarves. Makes sense then for him to be the one carrying Bilbo around. And if he grumbles, well he is a Dwarf from the Hobbit, he is entitled to grumble!
Oh, did I get a fact about Nori wrong? My apologies, I did read that part in Many Meetings, as a kind of appendix to the Hobbit, but obviously missed that one.
Yes, in the later chapters, Dori does seem to disapear. Though I think he has done his work. Though he must feel the dark in Mirkwood, fight the Spiders, suffer in the barrels, fear the Dragon and fight the Goblins like everyone else he is just not indivudially recorded!
Poor Ori, his only line is cut short by Beorn who, lets face it, has plenty! Though I think I know who Ori feels. It is probably of little comfort to him that he gets to say things just before he dies? Oh, and Sador do you have a younger brother? Just wondering of course!
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sador
Gondolin
Mar 12 2012, 8:23am
Post #5 of 6
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sador
Gondolin
Mar 12 2012, 8:36am
Post #6 of 6
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And two half-sisters on the Westren side of the Atlantic pond.
No - I don't think Nori was actually doing illegal things; I suppose this was just a hint for the actor to get into the mood.
Neither did my uncle, by the way. And he wasn't even silent - he sings with a fine voice, and even used to work in broadcasting sports events! But he was pretty bad at faking excitement, so that career never took off... however, it several respects he did seen the family oddball.
However, when important business came about - finances, politics, family relationships - he got into the habit of letting the older brother do both all the talking and all the hard work, occasionally smirking at him and often nudging him to do the right think (pretty much like Nori telling Dori that he forgot the burglar).
The third brother was somehow both the best-liked and the least-successful (at least moneywise), and had great intellectual pretensions.
My impression of Dori, Nori and Ori is strongly modelled on these three.
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