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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
Screencap of the Day - "...Like butter scraped over too much bread."

.Ithilwen.
Rivendell


Jan 31 2012, 12:01am

Post #1 of 14 (2263 views)
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Screencap of the Day - "...Like butter scraped over too much bread." Can't Post

Hi everyone! Sorry for posting a bit late today Blush I was in New York City all day.



Here we have Bilbo shortly after Gandalf arrives Smile The link to the full sized image is below:
http://www.framecaplib.com/...es/fotr/fotr0118.htm


1.) Were you pleased with Sir Ian Holm as Bilbo?
2.) Those who've read the book, did you like the way this scene translated from book to screen? If you haven't read the book, what's your general impression of this scene?
3.) I love all the little details in Bag End, like the jar of jam with the butter knife atop behind Bilbo. Do you have a favorite Bag End detail?
4.) Any other thoughts are welcome!

Ah! like gold fall the leaves in the wind,
Long years numberless as the wings of trees!
The long years have passed like swift draughts
Of the sweet mead in lofty halls
Beyond the West, beneath the blue vaults of Varda
Wherein the stars tremble
In the voice of her song, holy and queenly...

-Namárië



fellowship


(This post was edited by .Ithilwen. on Jan 31 2012, 12:04am)


Gwytha
Rohan


Jan 31 2012, 2:07am

Post #2 of 14 (1516 views)
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Bilbo and Bag End [In reply to] Can't Post

1. Once I got over my initial longing for the charactars to behave just as I imagined in my reading I did. Ian Holm is much more emotionally expressive and intense than I had imagined Bilbo to be, but I've come to like his interpretation of the role better than I had pictured it. Although I still don't really like where he runs and hugs Gandalf's knees after Gandalf says "I'm trying to help you"--but overall I feel that Ian Holm brought Bilbo to life and me to appreciate the charactar in a way I never had before, that he reached into Bilbo's charactar and brought out treasures that I could never have found on my own.

2. Yes, I was really pleased with the dialogue that was kept from the book, and I liked how in the EE they added that bit with "It's the Sackville Bagginses! They're after the house!"

3. I love looking at all the details of Bag-End each time I re-watch the films. I love the books piled all over the place in Bilbo's study--looks exactly like my bedroom! And I especially like the plates on the wall and the crockery in the scene where Frodo and Gandalf are having tea and discussing the Ring. Every scene in Bag End makes me want to move in there--especially I would love to cook and eat and just hang out in the Bag End kitchen.

Growth is less a matter of change than of ripening--and what alters most is the clarity with which we see one another. -Edith Pargeter


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jan 31 2012, 3:44am

Post #3 of 14 (1539 views)
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Glad you made it back! [In reply to] Can't Post

1.) Were you pleased with Sir Ian Holm as Bilbo?
Oh yes, very much so.

2.) Those who've read the book, did you like the way this scene translated from book to screen? If you haven't read the book, what's your general impression of this scene?
Interesting question. Even though many years pass between The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, Bilbo remained unchanged in my mind's eye from one story to the next. Sir Ian really did an excellent job of portraying Bilbo in his later years as Tolkien intended... especially in this scene when the weight of the years and the Ring really seem to have taken their toll. He looked gaunt, though he might not have, but for the ring. He did a good job too of bringing out the malaise of someone longing for adventure but remaining rooted in place.

3.) I love all the little details in Bag End, like the jar of jam with the butter knife atop behind Bilbo. Do you have a favorite Bag End detail?
I'm wondering what that box thing with a cloth draped over one edge might be.

4.) Any other thoughts are welcome!
The lighting of this shot is a bit off... I like the brightness of the kitchen of course but Bilbo should be more in shadow. Would have enhanced the meaning as well. I don't know where that top light is coming from, unless there is a skylight I missed.


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Jan 31 2012, 3:47am)


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jan 31 2012, 4:06am

Post #4 of 14 (1536 views)
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Regarding your #3... [In reply to] Can't Post

In the cap before this, it looks to me like a dishrack, with the cloth being the dishtowel.

Silverlode

"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories


willowing
Lorien

Jan 31 2012, 7:31am

Post #5 of 14 (1522 views)
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Screencap-Sir Ian Holm [In reply to] Can't Post

1.) Were you pleased with Sir Ian Holm as Bilbo?

(A) Sir Peter was quoted as saying that he knew that Martin Freeman was the right person to play Bilbo Baggins. I would imagine he had the same thoughts in mind when he offered the same role to Sir Ian about 10 to 12 years ago. I was overawed by his performance.


2.) Those who've read the book, did you like the way this scene translated from book to screen? If you haven't read the book, what's your general impression of this scene?

(A) As Bag End was left to him by his father I would say the scene was created to reflect a bit of hobbit history in its design and layout. As you can see on the wooden window shutter on the left. or is that a door

3.) I love all the little details in Bag End, like the jar of jam with the butter knife atop behind Bilbo. Do you have a favorite Bag End detail?

(A) The lines and details on the wooden shutter/door.

4.) Any other thoughts are welcome!


Cool


One Ringer
Tol Eressea


Jan 31 2012, 1:32pm

Post #6 of 14 (1488 views)
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Book to film... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm pretty sure when I read this sequence in the book it came across as a very genuine stating of fact; that Bilbo knew what he had to do and he was ready for it. The film brings it across as something that he's delayed for so long (as I see it). Perhaps they mean the same thing in both angles, but that's the difference in how I read and see, and I think Ian Holm does an excellent job in his portrayal. When he says the bread line, I really do believe that he's been outstretched.

"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today."

FOTR 10th Anniversary Music Video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33xJU3AIwsg


Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Jan 31 2012, 1:38pm

Post #7 of 14 (1499 views)
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cool :) [In reply to] Can't Post

1. I think Sir Ian Holm was brilliant as Bilbo, and that MF is going to have a very hard time to follow in his stead. The depth that Ian Holm brought into a (realtively) small amount of screen time was amazing. It achieved the desired effect of giving a strong glimpse of his part of the Ring's tale, and it was perfectly written by PJ & Co. IMO.

2. I can't remember how Tolkien depicted that part of the Bilbo/Gandalf convo very well.....all I can remember is the "...like butter scraped..." quote typed on the page.

3.Probably my fav Bag End stuff is all the papers, documents and Bilbo's research that's literred around the place and the Baggins/Took portraits plus other paintings.

:)

"I would draw some of the great tales in fullness, and leave many only placed in the scheme, and sketched. The cycles should be linked to a majestic whole, and yet leave scope for other minds and hands, wielding paint and music and drama"

___________


Let us then continue Tolkien's Legendarium!


Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 31 2012, 10:31pm

Post #8 of 14 (1490 views)
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Screencap - "Butter" [In reply to] Can't Post

1.) Were you pleased with Sir Ian Holm as Bilbo?

He was marvelous. The many years of stage work, as well as a great peer and scene partner in Ian McKellan made the scenes have real emotional depth and value.

2.) Those who've read the book, did you like the way this scene translated from book to screen? If you haven't read the book, what's your general impression of this scene?

Yes. They managed to condense a lot of information into a short space, and yet kept it tense about the Ring.

3.) I love all the little details in Bag End, like the jar of jam with the butter knife atop behind Bilbo. Do you have a favorite Bag End detail?

In one scene, it looks like Frodo is wrapping up a seed-cake. Bilbo's kitchen looked great, as well as the clutter and small details and the natural wood used as part of the ceiling support.

4.) Any other thoughts are welcome!

These were incredibly important scenes. The strength of the performances; the look and feel were all key to the success of giving us the culture of Hobbiton and the lifestyle.



Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Feb 2 2012, 5:44am

Post #9 of 14 (1470 views)
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Ok [In reply to] Can't Post

1. I love Ian Holm, and his Bilbo. PJ is guilty of pushing him for a "bigger" performance, from time to time, but overall, great.

2. Very well done.

3. Bag End is a joy to behold. The designers got this one right.

4. Did I mention I like Bag End?


Athena
The Shire

Feb 2 2012, 1:24pm

Post #10 of 14 (1433 views)
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Sir Ian was perfect [In reply to] Can't Post

and in this photo he reminds me of me on a Friday at 4pm. "Like butter scraped over too much bread," is an apt way to describe that feeling.


Darkstone
Immortal


Feb 2 2012, 3:55pm

Post #11 of 14 (1449 views)
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"The fat cat pacing on the mat, he does not forget." [In reply to] Can't Post

1.) Were you pleased with Sir Ian Holm as Bilbo?

Sure, but I really loved him as Sam Mussabini in Chariots of Fire (1981).


2.) Those who've read the book, did you like the way this scene translated from book to screen?

Quite superior to the book. In the book the line is pretty much a throwaway. Here it's a centerpiece to a deep character moment. Bilbo is pacing about like a caged animal, oblivious to the once soothing comforts of hobbit life all around him. Occasionally he gazes longingly out the window. He is trapped by the circular window of his cage which neatly mirrors how he is also trapped by the circular ring in his pocket. He can only escape if he gets rid of the ring, but he can't escape because he can't part with the ring, a vicious circle, a Catch-22. His mind goes back and forth, like he paces back and forth, a horrible wearying process that surely is reducing him to a thin shadow of himself. Exactly like the back and forth scraping of a knife buttering too much bread. The action on the screeen brilliantly demonstrates the metaphor.


3.) I love all the little details in Bag End, like the jar of jam with the butter knife atop behind Bilbo. Do you have a favorite Bag End detail?

The pinecones. Always reminds me of the passage :

"Leaving the road they went into the deep resin-scented darkness of the trees, and gathered dead sticks and cones to make a fire. Soon they had a merry crackle of flame at the foot of a large fir-tree and they sat round it for a while, until they began to nod."

To me the pinecone suggests that Bilbo and/or Frodo occasionally comes home with an extra pinecone in their pockets. Perhaps they bring it by accident, or perhaps they bring it home to have it to cast onto the fire. I can just smell their resin-scented hobbit hole.

It's a nice smell-o-vision moment for me.


4.) Any other thoughts are welcome!

Even about pie?

The fat cat on the mat
may seem to dream
of nice mice that suffice
for him, or cream;
but he free, maybe,
walks in thought
unbowed, proud, where loud
roared and fought
his kin, lean and slim,
or deep in den
in the East feasted on beasts
and tender men.
The giant lion with iron
claw in paw,
and huge ruthless tooth
in gory jaw;
the pard* dark-starred,
fleet upon feet,
that oft soft from aloft
leaps upon his meat
where woods loom in gloom --
far now they be,
fierce and free,
and tamed is he;
but fat cat on the mat
kept as a pet
he does not forget.
-JRR Tolkien

[*"pard" = "leopard", Darkstone.]


Bilbo does not forget.

******************************************
From IMDB trivia:

"A scene was cut from the finished film that showed Eowyn (Miranda Otto) stripping away her regular clothes and then dressing herself in the armor of a Rohan warrior."

*Darkstone bangs head against wall*


Gorbag
Rivendell


Feb 3 2012, 3:08am

Post #12 of 14 (1445 views)
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Answers my dear Hobbit.. [In reply to] Can't Post

1.) Were you pleased with Sir Ian Holm as Bilbo?

A perfect Bilbo, and such a brilliant actor. These early scenes within Bag End are some of the finest acting ive seen. Sir Ian, and Sir Ian are simply sublime in this scene.


2.) Those who've read the book, did you like the way this scene translated from book to screen? If you haven't read the book, what's your general impression of this scene?

Yes i do, like i have mentioned these scenes are some of my favourite in the film. So well done.


3.) I love all the little details in Bag End, like the jar of jam with the butter knife atop behind Bilbo. Do you have a favorite Bag End detail?

Hard to say one favourite detail, i love how they made Bag End but ...The maps! and the clutter on the floor as Bilbo prepares to leave.


4.) Any other thoughts are welcome!

I still feel these early scenes in Bag End between Gandalf and Bilbo dont get the recognition they deserve.

"If more of us valued food and cheer above hoarded gold, it would be a much merrier world."
— J.R.R. Tolkien



Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Feb 3 2012, 8:49pm

Post #13 of 14 (1419 views)
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You're right [In reply to] Can't Post

Tolkien should have written:

And then Bilbo paced back and forth, back and forth, like a knife spreading butter across a slice of bread, and stated:

"I feel thin. Sort of stretched. Like butter scraped over too much bread."


If only Peter, Fran and Philippa had been around to help him write the bloody thing!

Wink


telain
Rohan

Feb 7 2012, 4:19pm

Post #14 of 14 (1720 views)
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I happen to be eating bread and butter now... [In reply to] Can't Post

1.) Were you pleased with Sir Ian Holm as Bilbo?

Immensely. One of my favourite moments is in the extended version. Frodo and Bilbo are hiding from the S-B's and Frodo asks Bilbo if he's been partaking of the Gaffer's home brew. Ian Holm's delivery of the response is spot-on.

2.) Those who've read the book, did you like the way this scene translated from book to screen? If you haven't read the book, what's your general impression of this scene?

I have read the book, several times, but the text version does not stick in my head. The filmic version, however, does -- in particular the line "butter scraped over too much bread" and the weariness that Ian Holm conveys.

3.) I love all the little details in Bag End, like the jar of jam with the butter knife atop behind Bilbo. Do you have a favorite Bag End detail?

Allow me to substitute "detail" with "motif." I love the roundness of everything: doors, walls, windows, Hobbits themselves. I feel the look of Bag End is a glimpse into a culture that is very sure of, and comfortable with, its identity.

4.) Any other thoughts are welcome!

Fresh-baked bread and butter is not an awful substitute for pie...

 
 

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