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Screencap of the Day - At Bilbo's Door

Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Jan 27 2012, 1:37am

Post #1 of 20 (1230 views)
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Screencap of the Day - At Bilbo's Door Can't Post


You can find the full-sized image HERE.

I had it in my head that this image was based on one of John Howe or Alan Lee's paintings, but Google doesn't back me up on that. Either way, it's become one of the more iconic images from the movies, translated into bookends and wall plaques and even a cake or two.

So...

1. What do you think about the look of Gandalf?
2. I think this image very cleverly reminds us of the scale of Hobbits. Do you think the filmmakers did enough (or too much) to explain the short stature of Hobbits to the movie-firster audience?
3. I love the Frame Cap Library because we get to stop and look at all the little details on set. Like that birdhouse behind Gandalf that I've never noticed before. Any favorite details in this image?
4. Any other thoughts or comments (that aren't about pieAngelic)?

Thanks to everyone who participated this week!


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Magpie
Immortal


Jan 27 2012, 3:48am

Post #2 of 20 (491 views)
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Could you be thinking of Ted Nasmith? [In reply to] Can't Post

Although, the one I'm thinking of is from The Hobbit.

http://www.tednasmith.com/...rning_Visit.html#umv


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zarabia
Tol Eressea


Jan 27 2012, 8:32am

Post #3 of 20 (468 views)
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I didn't have a particular preconceived idea of what Gandalf should look like [In reply to] Can't Post

1. What do you think about the look of Gandalf?

But if I had any doubts about how believable he looked, they were blown away by Sir Ian's performance. However, looking at this picture, I think he looks like he would be awfully hot in those heavy robes.Tongue He needs lightweight robes for summer and early autumn.

2. I think this image very cleverly reminds us of the scale of Hobbits. Do you think the filmmakers did enough (or too much) to explain the short stature of Hobbits to the movie-firster audience?

I think they relied on showing, not telling, which was successful to a certain extent, but fell short (no pun intended) sometimes. If I had no idea about the size of hobbits before-hand, I would have guessed them to be about 4'5"-ish instead of the 3'5"-ish. It was sometimes startling to see the scale doubles because they looked so much shorter than the the illusion that was achieved with the actors.

3. I love the Frame Cap Library because we get to stop and look at all the little details on set. Like that birdhouse behind Gandalf that I've never noticed before. Any favorite details in this image?

I like the bench. I like to imagine Bilbo sitting there smoking his pipe:)

4. Any other thoughts or comments (that aren't about pieAngelic)?

Nope. All pie relatedLaugh


Kristin Thompson
Rohan


Jan 27 2012, 4:33pm

Post #4 of 20 (414 views)
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You may be thinking of "Gandalf Returns to Bag End" [In reply to] Can't Post

It's by John Howe (I reproduce it in the color plates of The Frodo Franchise), and it depicts one of Gandalf's visits after Bilbo has departed and the locals have decided that the wizard is a bad character. He's looking rather furtively around in the painting, prior to going in the gate. But the design of Bag End is identical, with the brick frames around the door and windows and the small hanging lamp.The flowers, bench, and bird-house aren't there, though--just a green lawn. The design of the fence is identical, too, though that's not visible in this frame.

1. What do you think about the look of Gandalf?

Not to be a wet blanket, but I was disappointed by Gandalf's general shabbiness, both in the clothing and the unwashed look (which persists even after he has had a chance to freshen up). The rationale given by Ian and the screenwriters was the Gandalf sleeps rough a lot and hence can't clean up. But there are two objections to that. First, Tolkien's first description of him, with the blue hat and especially the silver scarf, make him sound almost elegantly dressed. Tolkien's color drawing of him standing in front of Bilbo's door, p. 99 in J. R. R. Tolkien: Artist & Illustrator and, reproduced larger, p. 23 in The Art of the Hobbit, gives the best visual evidence of how Tolkien imagined him, and it's completely true to the description. Even the staff is rather elegant, being straight and having a spiral groove running around it (much more visible in the Art of the Hobbit reproduction). As Gandalf joins the dwarves and Bilbo, Tolkien writes, "up came Gandalf very splendid on a white horse."

Second, since Gandalf first arrives at the Grey Havens and hangs around with elves a lot, I have always assumed they provide his clothes. It is strongly implied that the elves of Lothlorien make his white clothes are his resurrection. Thus his clothes could plausibly have the "magical" properties of the elven cloaks, resisting damage and wear and dirt. In short, I have always pictured Gandalf as a fastidious old gentleman rather than the rather scruffy fellow he is in the films.

None of this is to criticize Ian's performance. It is indeed hard to picture anyone else in the role!

2. I think this image very cleverly reminds us of the scale of Hobbits. Do you think the filmmakers did enough (or too much) to explain the short stature of Hobbits to the movie-firster audience?

I agree that the door does define hobbits as short. I haven't seen the theatrical version in so long that I can't remember how many hobbits we see before this point, but I've always thought that the contrast between them and the large farm animals set up "hobbit scale" very well.

3. I love the Frame Cap Library because we get to stop and look at all the little details on set. Like that birdhouse behind Gandalf that I've never noticed before. Any favorite details in this image?


I like the addition of flowers. In LOTR (the book) we learn that Sam knew Bilbo, who taught him to read. Presumably the Gaffer was the gardener for Bag End and Sam inherited the job, so it seems logical that there would be plants around the door, not just grass.

No other comments, apart from the hope that The Hobbit will include the carving of the "burglar" sign in the door's surface! Oh, and I wonder why Gandalf knocks with his staff rather than using the doorbell. I assume that black shape under the lamp is the bell-pull. I also assume we will hear that bell rung a number of times as the dwarves arrive for tea.


Magpie
Immortal


Jan 27 2012, 5:16pm

Post #5 of 20 (441 views)
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here's a link to the Howe picture you mentioned [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.john-howe.com/...ails.php?image_id=94


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.Ithilwen.
Rivendell


Jan 27 2012, 6:19pm

Post #6 of 20 (395 views)
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I love this scene [In reply to] Can't Post

1. What do you think about the look of Gandalf?

I saw the movies first, but now that I've read the books I'm very pleased with the way he looks . He looks realistic while still looking well... like Gandalf.

2. I think this image very cleverly reminds us of the scale of Hobbits. Do you think the filmmakers did enough (or too much) to explain the short stature of Hobbits to the movie-firster audience?

I think they were very clever in illustrating the scale difference. The filmmakers made it obvious, but not glaringly so, from the beginning. I think it came together nicely.

3. I love the Frame Cap Library because we get to stop and look at all the little details on set. Like that birdhouse behind Gandalf that I've never noticed before. Any favorite details in this image?

I never noticed the bird house! My favorite thing is the petunias by the door step... They remind me of my mother's garden in the summer Smile

4. Any other thoughts or comments (that aren't about pieAngelic)?

How about cake? Is that better? Wink

Ah! like gold fall the leaves in the wind,
Long years numberless as the wings of trees!
The long years have passed like swift draughts
Of the sweet mead in lofty halls
Beyond the West, beneath the blue vaults of Varda
Wherein the stars tremble
In the voice of her song, holy and queenly...

-Namri



fellowship


Harold.of.Whoa
Rivendell


Jan 27 2012, 6:46pm

Post #7 of 20 (414 views)
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Gandalf the Shabby [In reply to] Can't Post

Interesting. I was always pretty comfortable with Gandalf's state of dishevelment in FOTR.

If you think about it from the film maker's perspective, it might be that there was intent to set up a visual contrast between Gandalf and Saruman, given the amount of screen time devoted to the latter. Gandalf is, after all, the Grey Pilgrim, and Saruman is the one who resides in an elegant dwelling, serving his guests port in fine crystal in the study. I suspect they were meant to contrast visually when they shared the screen.

There's also the necessity for visual contrast between Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White in the later installments.


Darkstone
Immortal


Jan 27 2012, 7:59pm

Post #8 of 20 (437 views)
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"...the skimming martins. [In reply to] Can't Post

I wonder how you are getting on with your flying since you first went solo - the last news we had of this. I especially noted your observations on the skimming martins.
-Letter #75


1. What do you think about the look of Gandalf?

Not pointy enough. (Clint Eastwood is really pointy. Hed have made a great Gandalf.)

I note hes also a bit tall, slender, and his robes hang loosely, so McKellen and Tall Paul can better switch off for the sake of scale.


2. I think this image very cleverly reminds us of the scale of Hobbits. Do you think the filmmakers did enough (or too much) to explain the short stature of Hobbits to the movie-firster audience?

They really worked at it at first, especially since a lot of later scenes involved just hobbits. They needed to establish the scale right off. I think it worked.


3. I love the Frame Cap Library because we get to stop and look at all the little details on set. Like that birdhouse behind Gandalf that I've never noticed before. Any favorite details in this image?

I like the shady bench. This is a place to sit and smoke and enjoy the day. And watch the birds. And maybe watch the birds eat beetles trying to eat his plants. And maybe have them eat mosquitoes. The bird house is a very good idea. For martins, you think?


4. Any other thoughts or comments (that aren't about pie )?

What else is there?

******************************************
From IMDB trivia:

"A scene was cut from the finished film that showed Eowyn (Miranda Otto) stripping away her regular clothes and then dressing herself in the armor of a Rohan warrior."

*Darkstone bangs head against wall*


willowing
Lorien

Jan 27 2012, 8:24pm

Post #9 of 20 (392 views)
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Screencap-Bilbo's door [In reply to] Can't Post

1. What do you think about the look of Gandalf?

(A)I am going by the notion there were a lot of places he had visited before arriving at Bilbo's doorstep. sleeping indoors(Rivendell/Prancing Pony) as well as under the stars. The look of Gandalf reminds me of a well worn traveller who has reached his destination after a few stopovers.

2. I think this image very cleverly reminds us of the scale of Hobbits. Do you think the filmmakers did enough (or too much) to explain the short stature of Hobbits to the movie-firster audience?

(A) I think the height of Gandalf towering over the door is enough evidence to indictate the size of Hobbits.

3. I love the Frame Cap Library because we get to stop and look at all the little details on set. Like that birdhouse behind Gandalf that I've never noticed before. Any favorite details in this image?

(A) The well trodden pathway and flowers beside the door it gives the image an air of comfort and homeliness. Bilbo's little castle.

4. Any other thoughts or comments (that aren't about pie)?

(A) Sir Ian McKellen said on one of the documentaries disc from the EE(not the exact words), when he saw BagEnd he believed. Those are my exact feelings.


Rostron2
Gondor


Jan 27 2012, 10:52pm

Post #10 of 20 (376 views)
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Gandalf at the door! [In reply to] Can't Post

1. What do you think about the look of Gandalf?

Like others here, it's hard to picture anything else now. I do remember that I pictured him a little cleaner, but he's also trying to maintain a 'common man' appearance and being a bit shabby is all part of the disguise, I guess. Sir Ian captured him perfectly in so many ways; including the way he moves, walks, and uses the clothing.

2. I think this image very cleverly reminds us of the scale of Hobbits. Do you think the filmmakers did enough (or too much) to explain the short stature of Hobbits to the movie-firster audience?

It worked quite well. There are places where you can tell, of course, but then there are some brilliant touches of the big/small scaling that look absolutely seamless. They said it couldn't be done in the olden days, and they resorted to animation. This is where knowing your camera work really makes it stand out in the small details.

3. I love the Frame Cap Library because we get to stop and look at all the little details on set. Like that birdhouse behind Gandalf that I've never noticed before. Any favorite details in this image?

Bag End is quite a grand place! It would have been interesting to see one of the poorer dwellings insides, just for fun. The whole construction in this picture is just amazing. It's very frank Lloyd Wright-ish in its use of the contours of the land, perfectly in keeping with the idea of a hobbit hole, of course.

4. Any other thoughts or comments (that aren't about pieAngelic)?

Its quite a set. The detail and the 'it's stood a long time and the vegetation is part of the landscape now' look are amazing.



SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jan 28 2012, 3:17am

Post #11 of 20 (364 views)
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Re question 3 [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
3. I love the Frame Cap Library because we get to stop and look at all the little details on set. Like that birdhouse behind Gandalf that I've never noticed before. Any favorite details in this image?

I like the shady bench. This is a place to sit and smoke and enjoy the day. And watch the birds. And maybe watch the birds eat beetles trying to eat his plants. And maybe have them eat mosquitoes. The bird house is a very good idea. For martins, you think?


And maybe enjoy a slice of pie?


Quote
4. Any other thoughts or comments (that aren't about pie )?


d'oh


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jan 28 2012, 3:34am

Post #12 of 20 (375 views)
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The quotable Gandalf [In reply to] Can't Post

1. What do you think about the look of Gandalf?

"I have no memory of this place."

-- and I have no memory of this image.

2. I think this image very cleverly reminds us of the scale of Hobbits. Do you think the filmmakers did enough (or too much) to explain the short stature of Hobbits to the movie-firster audience?

"I suppose you think that was terribly clever."

-- as Darkstone points out, they seemed to work a lot harder on it in the beginning than they did by the end. Once the size difference was fully established we could forgive a shot or two of an actor on their knees.

3. I love the Frame Cap Library because we get to stop and look at all the little details on set. Like that birdhouse behind Gandalf that I've never noticed before. Any favorite details in this image?

"I think there's more to this hobbit than meets the eye."

-- that bench looks a little shady to me.

4. Any other thoughts or comments (that aren't about pie )?

I'm wondering if that is even Sir Ian under there. It looks nothing like his posture. The hair and everything looks far more shabby than our Gandalf usually did.


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jan 28 2012, 3:37am

Post #13 of 20 (382 views)
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And lots of trees from _this_ POV ;) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jan 28 2012, 9:28pm

Post #14 of 20 (393 views)
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I imagine [In reply to] Can't Post

It's tall Paul.


zarabia
Tol Eressea


Jan 29 2012, 3:22am

Post #15 of 20 (353 views)
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Haha! That's why I love Bag End :) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


telain
Rohan

Jan 30 2012, 2:13pm

Post #16 of 20 (314 views)
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a very inviting doorway [In reply to] Can't Post

1. What do you think about the look of Gandalf?

He looks like how I imagine Radagast to look (except Raddy's robes would be brown, not blueish grey.) There is just so much bulky material; it looks uncomfortable and heavy. I hoped for a bit more colour -- a richer blue. I could live without the silver scarf, but what about a bit of silver detail on the hem? I understand the "on-the-road-ragged-look" but I think it might have been a bit overdone...

2. I think this image very cleverly reminds us of the scale of Hobbits. Do you think the filmmakers did enough (or too much) to explain the short stature of Hobbits to the movie-firster audience?

I think this shot (and others like it) do a good job of establishing the difference. Talking to people about my research (text v. film mental imagery) a few commented that PJ's film helped them understand what Hobbits were when they couldn't quite visualize it from the text.

3. I love the Frame Cap Library because we get to stop and look at all the little details on set. Like that birdhouse behind Gandalf that I've never noticed before. Any favorite details in this image?

I absolutely love the green colour of the door. The whole doorway looks so inviting. Having read a bit about designing houses, I realize how important the front door is to establishing the character of the house and its occupants. I think PJ et al do well here.

4. Any other thoughts or comments (that aren't about pie)?

As a still shot, it looks like Gandalf is hesitating -- what happened to Bilbo the last time Gandalf knocked on his door? What has happened to Bilbo since? It feel like foreshadowing...


peleowyn
Rivendell


Jan 31 2012, 6:48am

Post #17 of 20 (297 views)
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Pie? [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"Look! There is light, and beauty up there, that no Shadow can touch!"


sador
Half-elven


Jan 31 2012, 7:02am

Post #18 of 20 (323 views)
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The first line should be enough. [In reply to] Can't Post

http://newboards.theonering.net/...p;sb=score&mh=25


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jan 31 2012, 3:36pm

Post #19 of 20 (319 views)
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Well, we should narrow it down a bit... [In reply to] Can't Post

This is the earliest SCOD post (that I could find) in which Darkstone broadly interpreted the question "any other thoughts...?": http://newboards.theonering.net/...orum.cgi?post=153373

"I like pie" shows up a few times since and is a bit of a SCOD tradition. To keep it fresh, or perhaps simply to remind us, he said "I still like pie" a time or two as well.


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Jan 31 2012, 3:41pm)


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Feb 6 2012, 4:12am

Post #20 of 20 (380 views)
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I can't help but [In reply to] Can't Post

wonder if we're going to see a similar shot in about *checks watch* 10 months!!! *twitch*

It's not hard to envision Bilbo sitting there on the bench blowing smoke-rings ;)

But when I first saw this shot of Gandalf at the door of Bag End... I was finally, FINALLY in Hobbiton and in the story. Wonderful!! :D


sample

I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.




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