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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
So who was knocking at the door of Bag End anyway?
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DanielLB
Immortal


Jan 22 2012, 12:47am

Post #1 of 37 (1498 views)
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So who was knocking at the door of Bag End anyway? Can't Post

This post is pure speculation, and I invite you all to comment and post your own speculation over the issue.

During the extended edition of Fellowship of the Ring, we see Bilbo begin writing his book and the first chapter being 'Concerning Hobbits'. Upon writing the first chapter and giving a nice voice-over, Bilbo is rudely interupted by (presumably) an unwanted visitor. Bilbo then calls Frodo to answer the door. This scene then cuts straight away to Frodo sitting under a tree reading a book in the woods.

My question is, who was knocking at the door of Bag End anyway?

Here is where the speculation comes in.

From the trailer, the video blogs and Quints set reports, we know (for fact) that new scene/s have been filmed involving Frodo and Bilbo at the time of the scene above. As Quint reported, Frodo tells Bilbo that he is off to greet Gandalf. So why, during FOTR, would Bilbo be calling for Frodo to answer the door?
My speculation is that it is Frodo who is the one knocking on the door, who interupts Bilbo writing. As the FOTR scene suggests, Bilbo knows that Frodo is/should be around. Quint reported that new scenes were filmed involving Frodo grabing some mail and heading back inside, and another scence of Frodo attaching the sign to the gate of Bag End. Perhaps, for whatever reason, Frodo essentially gets 'locked out' (forgotten keys, door closes behind him etc etc.) of Bag End, and knocks on the door. Bilbo calls Frodo, not realising that he is the one knocking. Giving up, Bilbo answers, and they then have the conversation about Frodo heading off to see Gandalf (as seen in the trailer).

Pros of this: this involves one single scene that links The Hobbit with FOTR, and can easily be slotted into FOTR by the general viewer/audience. In FOTR, Bilbo knows that Frodo is somewhere in Bag End, and would therefore explain the new scene of them discussing Gandalf etc.
Cons of this: Frodo locking himself out is unlikely . The knock on the door is probably just an unwanted visitor, hence the sign in the first place.

Further speculation:

Upon waving off Frodo, Bilbo may then return to his writing desk to start chapter 2 'An Unexpected Journey'. Mirroring FOTR extended edition, there is a voice-over by Bilbo, and then a cut to 60 years earlier, with Gandalf arriving at Bag End.

Pros: Such a scene would exactly mirror that of FOTR, and would nicely tie the two films together (almost seamlessly).
Cons: Pure speculation and probably just what I want to happen. Would the general audience really care?

So what does everyone think? Yes it's pure speculation, and we do not know yet if the Frodo/Bilbo scenes will be presented as flashbacks, flashforwards, or in which film. However, something like the above would tie the films together and explains the new filmed scenes.

Who agrees, who doesn't? Would it be too confusing for the general audience? Is it silly? We need a bit of speculation in this drought of spoilers and news! Discuss away!


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Jan 22 2012, 1:09am

Post #2 of 37 (933 views)
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interesting theory [In reply to] Can't Post

But since Frodo lived at Baggend I can't see him knocking. I mean there is the thin possibility of locking himself out but another possibility could be Balin or other dwarfs since they had been said to visit Bilbo from time to time. or maybe elves since they were the ones to help Bilbo out of Hobbiton. Weren't they? Could actually just be some random Hobbit asking about party business. I'm not really sure they will delve too deep into Old Bilbo and Frodo's scenes honestly. From everything I can gather about rumors and whats been said, I'm thinking the Frodo Old Bilbo stuff will be book ends for the Hobbit films one sequence at the beginning of film one and the other being at the end of film 2. the second one being Frodo running off to meet Gandalf.


(This post was edited by sinister71 on Jan 22 2012, 1:10am)


There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Jan 22 2012, 1:13am

Post #3 of 37 (922 views)
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Balin [In reply to] Can't Post

I was first thinking of Balin too, which would be really cool.

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas


DanielLB
Immortal


Jan 22 2012, 1:17am

Post #4 of 37 (887 views)
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Yes [In reply to] Can't Post

My original thought that it may have been one of the Dwarves as well, but then it gets it to the whole problem of why Bilbo never said anything to Gandalf on his arrival.

I just tried to come up with something, that fits the current FOTR scenes, the new filmed scenes, and a way of tieing the two films together without confusing the audience.


duats
Grey Havens

Jan 22 2012, 1:25am

Post #5 of 37 (880 views)
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Only [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm pretty sure Balin is dead by then.

It's probably the Sackville-Bagginses.


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Jan 22 2012, 1:27am

Post #6 of 37 (875 views)
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I always figured that as well. [In reply to] Can't Post

Just more relatives to bug the heck out of poor old Bilbo.

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Jan 22 2012, 1:39am

Post #7 of 37 (870 views)
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yeah good point [In reply to] Can't Post

Balin was killed in Moria in 2994 and Frodo by PJ's timeline left the shire in 3001 roughly I guess but it could be another dwarf at Bilbo's door or maybe elves hanging around to lead Bilbo to Rivendell after his party


Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Jan 22 2012, 1:48am

Post #8 of 37 (845 views)
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I really like it DanielLB [In reply to] Can't Post

really nice covering of the possibilities. I think your frodo at the door suggestion could possibly work.....and I love the idea about Bilbo writing "THe Unexpected Journey" down.

Of course, as you said, these suggestions probably are too pedantic, but definitely not silly IMO :)

I always get rather mixed up in all those Bilbo at bag end scenes and Frodo galavanting off.....maybe the new TH film will lighten things up as you are suggesting?

Smile

"I would draw some of the great tales in fullness, and leave many only placed in the scheme, and sketched. The cycles should be linked to a majestic whole, and yet leave scope for other minds and hands, wielding paint and music and drama"

___________


Let us then continue Tolkien's Legendarium!


Moahunter
Rohan


Jan 22 2012, 2:35am

Post #9 of 37 (872 views)
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The usual suspects...... [In reply to] Can't Post

 


(This post was edited by entmaiden on Jan 22 2012, 12:30pm)


willowing
Lorien

Jan 22 2012, 5:08am

Post #10 of 37 (784 views)
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Knock, knock [In reply to] Can't Post

The Shire population including extended family still think there is treasure hidden in Bilbo Baggins many rooms.

The "knocking at the door" may have been a nosy neighbour entering in through a side window and proceeding to do their own treasure hunt further towards the back of the house hence the knocking. Cool


Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan

Jan 22 2012, 5:59am

Post #11 of 37 (781 views)
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Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

The problem with the whole Frodo taking off to wait for Gandalf is that (and correct me if I am wrong) he has a different coloured book in his hand doesn't he??

The book he is reading in Fellowship under the tree is different than the book he takes off down the road holding in the Hobbit trailer!

Am I wrong?? Hope so...


duats
Grey Havens

Jan 22 2012, 7:25am

Post #12 of 37 (761 views)
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End thread [In reply to] Can't Post

Laugh


DanielLB
Immortal


Jan 22 2012, 12:02pm

Post #13 of 37 (727 views)
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Red or Black [In reply to] Can't Post

In FOTR, the book is black. In the trailer it is red.

But I wouldn't say it's a massive problem. I hadn't even noticed until you said! Plus, you can only see the colour of the book in the trailer for 7 frames (just under 2 seconds). It's unlikely that were going to see anymore of that book other than that!


DanielLB
Immortal


Jan 22 2012, 12:08pm

Post #14 of 37 (718 views)
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I'm glad you like it Xanaseb [In reply to] Can't Post

Like you said it probably is too pedantic. I mean, who has ever accurately guessed part of the film a year before it's release haha!

My concern over this speculation is that although it mirrors the FOTR opening (afer the prologue) it may seem too repetitive (for the audience and PJ and co).
I did have another suggestion, where Bilbo writes "Unexpected Journey" and then is intereupted again by another knock at the door. We have a shoot of Bilbo shouting: "No thank you! We don't want anymore visitors, well-wishers or distant relations" (exactly from FOTR). Then from behind the door we hear a reply: "And what about very old friends" (so we have identical scenes but from two different point of views from both characters, from both films). Which then cuts to 60 years earlier, with Gandalf riding/walking up to Bag End.


TomthePilgrim
Rohan


Jan 22 2012, 3:24pm

Post #15 of 37 (700 views)
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excuse the non sequitur, but . . . [In reply to] Can't Post

. . . I'm having a Paul McCartney moment ("someone's knocking at the door, somebody's ringin' the bell").

Seriously, though, I hope all of this comes to nothing. If PJ starts to connect every possible opening from the LOTR series to the Hobbit, it's going to be very distracting and very, very annoying!

"I am Gandalf, and Gandalf means me!"

The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,


DanielLB
Immortal


Jan 22 2012, 4:06pm

Post #16 of 37 (694 views)
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Your opinion is welcome [In reply to] Can't Post

I wanted to open the floor up to discussion. Like I said in my original post, I wouldn't be surprised if something like it happens - my speculation is probably my inner fan coming out!


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jan 22 2012, 6:33pm

Post #17 of 37 (692 views)
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One question... [In reply to] Can't Post

You hear Bilbo's voice still calling for Frodo over the view of him sitting under the tree reading the book. Wouldn't that eliminate him as the one knocking at the door.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Jan 22 2012, 6:33pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Jan 22 2012, 8:27pm

Post #18 of 37 (645 views)
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Well yes [In reply to] Can't Post

Well yes, you're totally right as that was the original intent when FOTR was released. Over 10 years later they're trying to come up with a way to link the two films together. We don't know the time period between these two moments. Perhaps not unreasonable if it were to happen this way.


Owain
Tol Eressea


Jan 22 2012, 8:56pm

Post #19 of 37 (647 views)
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I'm pretty sure it's the Sackville-Bagginses who want his estate.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan

Jan 22 2012, 9:17pm

Post #20 of 37 (662 views)
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How is this NOT a problem?? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
In FOTR, the book is black. In the trailer it is red.

But I wouldn't say it's a massive problem. I hadn't even noticed until you said! Plus, you can only see the colour of the book in the trailer for 7 frames (just under 2 seconds). It's unlikely that were going to see anymore of that book other than that!



It completely throws out the continuity! If he takes off with a red book then ends up reading a black book... How could anyone not notice this??

You would think that they would check those sort of scenes if they want to tie them in with Fellowship...


DanielLB
Immortal


Jan 22 2012, 9:49pm

Post #21 of 37 (638 views)
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As I said [In reply to] Can't Post

You can only tell the colour of the book in the trailer for 7 frames. That's less than 2 seconds. Someone is only going to notice if they freeze the film and then compare with FOTR, just like us! Yes, it's a continuity problem, but there are a lot bigger ones!

Perhaps Frodo is heading out to the library in Hobbiton to return the book and take out a black one Wink


DanielLB
Immortal


Jan 22 2012, 10:06pm

Post #22 of 37 (627 views)
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Edit [In reply to] Can't Post

Forgot to add, and that's only visible zooming in.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Jan 22 2012, 10:10pm

Post #23 of 37 (632 views)
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Bigger inconsistencies ? [In reply to] Can't Post

you mean like old Bilbo's wig not matching the one he wore in FOTR? the one in the Hobbit looks totally different to me anyways Crazy


DanielLB
Immortal


Jan 22 2012, 10:12pm

Post #24 of 37 (625 views)
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Yes [In reply to] Can't Post

There are much more visual inconsistencies within the triology, and am sure will be in The Hobbit films that the casual audience will notice/question


Owain
Tol Eressea


Jan 22 2012, 11:45pm

Post #25 of 37 (635 views)
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That's also an easy fix for a future release... [In reply to] Can't Post

Turning a black book to red would be pretty simple.

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."

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