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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Chip the Glasses in after all?
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Muireadhaigh
Rivendell


Nov 30 2011, 2:24pm

Post #51 of 84 (747 views)
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Yes, you need surround sound to hear it [In reply to] Can't Post

The sound comes from the rear speakers


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Nov 30 2011, 2:49pm

Post #52 of 84 (716 views)
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Of course not. [In reply to] Can't Post

If you one doesn't have surround speakers, the sounds get played through the front speakers. Wink


(This post was edited by Estel78 on Nov 30 2011, 2:50pm)


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Nov 30 2011, 3:34pm

Post #53 of 84 (802 views)
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1. Chip the Glasses [In reply to] Can't Post

Could simply be a conventional "template" song, where it is customary to slot in the name of your host. So, if they were at Thorin's house, they would say:

"Chip the glasses, crack the plates, that's what Thorin Oakenshield hates."

Tra la la lally is a bit more difficult, though one might assume that the elves have some sort of telepathic ability which allows them to coordinate spontaneous songs...I personally would leave the latter out, but the former in.

-GM


JWPlatt
Grey Havens

Nov 30 2011, 3:51pm

Post #54 of 84 (775 views)
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At The Theater [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok, so let's say the audience is in the theater watching the movie...

Are they really going to take time to consider this thread's rational points of justification, or will they have just enough time to think, "oh, that's weird" before the next scene cuts in?


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Nov 30 2011, 4:01pm

Post #55 of 84 (734 views)
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It's very simple... [In reply to] Can't Post

I just don't. No reason required, it's goofy. Doesn't matter if Tolkien wrote it, that scene with the dishes could be straight out of a Disney movie.


In Reply To
how can you not like them


Just to be it clear, i'm not against singing per se (though i'm in favor of PJ's decision to leave out some songs from the book in LOTR), i'm specifically talking about the dishes scene.


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Nov 30 2011, 4:17pm

Post #56 of 84 (714 views)
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I think it is likely audiences said to themselves [In reply to] Can't Post

"Oh, that's weird" quite a few times during the LOTR films. I don't see why a bit of singing is going to suddenly ruin everything.

Plus, I am not sure the assumption that audiences will find singing "weird" is a sound one...


(This post was edited by Gandalf'sMother on Nov 30 2011, 4:18pm)


Snaga
Lorien


Nov 30 2011, 4:51pm

Post #57 of 84 (742 views)
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I think it would be brilliant to have some dwarven singing here.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I mean, lets say they are in fact making a movie that is considered more "mature", in which there isn't a place for some of the more whimsical parts of the original story. What better place to insert a song and in essence make a cinematic "nod" to aspects of the story sacrificed during the adaptation.

What could be more natural than a bunch of rough and tumble, drunken dwarves breaking into song and screwing around with their stuffed shirt host? I think it could very easily be made to fit within a more "mature" movie.

For that matter there are other parts of the story line in which they could do the same; put the dwarves in a setting in which a song (drinking song or travelling song) wouldn't be unnatural and wouldn't effect the "tone" of the film. Rivendell, Laketown or sitting about a camp fire in any number of other places along the journey. We're talking about brief interludes here, like when Frodo catches Aragorn singing a sample of the Lay of Luthien in the marshes, not anything like every cast member breaking into song and dance like a musical.


Nightingale
Rohan


Nov 30 2011, 6:31pm

Post #58 of 84 (705 views)
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'not like every character breaking into song and dance' [In reply to] Can't Post

you have just provided me with some frankly hilarious mental images there! Laugh


Muireadhaigh
Rivendell


Nov 30 2011, 7:20pm

Post #59 of 84 (713 views)
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If we were in a tavern [In reply to] Can't Post

I could give a humorous, but slightly sexist retort. Angelic


Muireadhaigh
Rivendell


Nov 30 2011, 7:37pm

Post #60 of 84 (736 views)
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It could be, but it's not [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't like all the songs from the trilogy, others I did. I liked Pippen's song in Minis Tirith, I liked the Green Dragon song, didn't like Eowen's graveside singing, or the Elve's lament to Gandalf. That's just my opinion. But I like music, and song, and I think this particular scene could be done very well. On the other hand, if directed poorly or the music arranged lazily, you might be right and it could be childish and I end up not liking it. At this point, I'm hoping for the best, and am looking forward to it.

Then again, I like musicals, West Side Story, to Rocky Horror, and Little Shop of Horrors, and Rent, even Mama Mia.


JWPlatt
Grey Havens

Nov 30 2011, 7:58pm

Post #61 of 84 (727 views)
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Weird [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
"Oh, that's weird" quite a few times during the LOTR films. I don't see why a bit of singing is going to suddenly ruin everything.

Plus, I am not sure the assumption that audiences will find singing "weird" is a sound one...



Heh, well my comment was not so much about the movie breaking into song. It was more about making fun of this topic, and maybe how we are taking it too seriously. We have plenty of time to dissect, analyse, debate and adjust our opinions here, but what's realy going to matter is each moment in the film where we don't have anything but immediacy in the theater.

Personally, I thought Pippin's song while Denethor symbolically spilled the flesh and blood of Faramir while eating was okay. So too Merry and Pippin's Green Dragon song. Those things would be okay with me. But Eowyn and Aragorn's songs really make me squirm, depite being mercifully short and cut off.


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Nov 30 2011, 9:20pm

Post #62 of 84 (708 views)
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Eowyn's song [In reply to] Can't Post

Was excellent. It's only awkward if you expect something more modern.

As I said elsewhere, the perceived awkwardness of the song (by some here and elsewhere) is, IMO, what makes it authentic. If you were transported back in time to listen to a Dark Age Anglo-Saxon dirge, you wouldn't likely hear a tune that was familiar to your ears. You'd likely hear something that sounded, well, awkward.

The same goes for Aragorn's song, which I thought was one of the few things that elevated the films beyond just a "cool action adventure." Good on PJ for trusting the source material.

I think these films would be better off if they didn't pander too much. Tolkien didn't test his audience with LOTR, and they are some of the most beloved books of all time. PJ should, and likely will, push the boundaries of what audience's find "comfortable." No matter how much I disagree with some of PJ's choices, and his not always mature style, I will give him credit for at least not being a Ron Howard or Michael Bay.

-GM


(This post was edited by Gandalf'sMother on Nov 30 2011, 9:24pm)


triptrap
Lorien

Nov 30 2011, 9:20pm

Post #63 of 84 (671 views)
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songs are songs... [In reply to] Can't Post

...you like them or not, as you said you personally would/did find some songs bad, it's only your personal taste...
but they still belong to the world and should be shown( sung). i didn't like eowyn's song as well but it belonged to the scene. i think those dwarvish or hobbit drinking or travel songs are great and i hope to see more of them in the movies.
and i think the crew around PJ is professional enough and knows their job so the songs will never seem childish, i think they'll be used to create more atmosphere, to make the scenes deeper. it ads a lot if there's not only actors with soundtrack but actors making the music and singing, the characters gain more depth and reality.


Marillë by the Sea
Rivendell


Nov 30 2011, 9:21pm

Post #64 of 84 (672 views)
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Thank you! [In reply to] Can't Post

Even when characters did sing in LOTR movies, they didn't follow exactly the same lyrics as in the books. In this instance, the dwarves could sing a couple of verses of the dishes song before bursting into laughter at Bilbo's terrified face, but in the end everything turns out well. Frankly, I'm looking forward to this scene and find it very believable: go into a pub and see if you don't spot any rough looking men singing songs.

And why does everyone associate singing songs with Disney movies? Did they cringe whenever someone broke into song on LOTR and thought of Snow White or Cinderella?


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Nov 30 2011, 9:26pm

Post #65 of 84 (671 views)
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If the vlog is any indication [In reply to] Can't Post

It is possible they will sing the "Man in the Moon" song rather than the dishes one. That will avoid what someone else said about the songs being too "situational."

-GM


Marillë by the Sea
Rivendell


Nov 30 2011, 9:32pm

Post #66 of 84 (704 views)
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Exactly [In reply to] Can't Post

I was surprised Eowyn and Aragorn started singing because I haven't seen many recent blockbuster movies that do that, but after repeated viewings I thoroughly enjoy each scene because it really makes the world more authentic, like it truly happened and belongs in the Middle Ages. I'm really happy that PJ and the writers decided to incorporate as much of Tolkien's songs as possible and I hope they will continue to do so with The Hobbit.


Muireadhaigh
Rivendell


Dec 1 2011, 1:06am

Post #67 of 84 (671 views)
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I disagree [In reply to] Can't Post

It's not that my ears aren't accustomed to music other than modern music, that was a bit presumptuous of you, I simply didn't like it. It felt forced to me, and her singing voice wasn't very good. Plus she over-acted the scene. But I'm glad someone enjoyed it.


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Dec 1 2011, 1:22am

Post #68 of 84 (633 views)
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Got it [In reply to] Can't Post

But I think what you perceive as being "forced" is simply the style they chose to go with, not a failure of acting. Throughout many cultures, there are and were songs that don't even sound like songs. Belting and grunting and shouting. Rather unpleasant stuff, even to the open-minded appreciator of music.

And I didn't say you had to like it, per se. But I don't think it was done poorly. It just is what it is - a recreation of an old dirge - and should be appreciated for that.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Dec 1 2011, 2:32am

Post #69 of 84 (656 views)
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Its not that I didn't like the songs and poems [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought they fit the book well but I dont care to have the hobbit a musical where everyone is singing and dancing all the time. The orcs/Goblins sang in the book too should they have a sing along in the hobbit too? Can't see it. The world PJ created had songs too but they were well placed, not just breaking into song like they do in the book. I mean a well placed drunken, dwarf drinking song would be fine but most of the songs could be done as atmosphere music done by Howard Shore and that would be fine by me. i agree some of the melodies are haunting but I think thats part of the composers job to incorporate those into the film where you hear them but you dont have to hear 13 dwarfs , or orcs, or elves singing all the time.


taekotemple
Grey Havens


Dec 1 2011, 4:03am

Post #70 of 84 (597 views)
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A good example of this is from "Whose Line is it Anyway?" [In reply to] Can't Post

On the American version of the show, Wayne Brady could make up some pretty clever lyrics on the fly. I'm sure he's not the only one, as well.

“Tell me one last thing,” said Harry. “Is this real? Or has this been happening inside my head?”
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?”


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Dec 1 2011, 5:15am

Post #71 of 84 (623 views)
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They don't sing "all the time" [In reply to] Can't Post

...in the books either, so I'm not sure what your point is.

PJ should do whatever he can to make these different from your standard mainstream, action fare. And songs are one way of doing that.

Here's to hoping most of them are kept in.

-GM


Ececheira
Bree


Dec 1 2011, 7:07am

Post #72 of 84 (621 views)
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Yeah but... [In reply to] Can't Post

That doesn't scan right. Only 4 syllables allowed in the name.


Wandering Ranger
Rivendell


Dec 1 2011, 7:15am

Post #73 of 84 (617 views)
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and? [In reply to] Can't Post

all you need is one of them to go "How about a drinking song whilst we feast" and then they break into Chip the Glasses. From that you would get that it is clearly a traditional dwarf song sung whilst eating and drinking. The fact every name you could think of doesnt necessarily fit is irrelevant.

So Frodo Baggins boarded the great ship and passed on into the west till the sweet fragrance on the air filled his sense and the sound of singing came over the water. Then it seemed to him that, as in a dream, he beheld white shores and beyond them a far green country. The third age of Middle Earth was over, the days of the Rings had passed and the story and song of those times was at an end.


triptrap
Lorien

Dec 1 2011, 9:57am

Post #74 of 84 (622 views)
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i still don't [In reply to] Can't Post

quite get why you think the singing of songs will turn it into a musical. I mean, they don't even sing in the book all the time so the songs will be well placed in the movies...
IMO they could even do the orc song great: one drumming the rhythm, the others stomping, pushing and slapping the dwarves down into the tunnels and using more like guttural kind of singing, grunting/shouting/screaming with their nasty voices.


grinman
Rivendell

Dec 1 2011, 3:28pm

Post #75 of 84 (612 views)
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no songs, just like LOTR.. [In reply to] Can't Post

I understand the desire to not have silly songs and such in The Hobbit films, but let's not forget how many songs and poems made their way into Peter Jackson's LOTR films.

These are the ones I can think of off the top of my head (there might be some I'm missing):

FOTR
"The Road goes ever on.."- Gandalf
"The Road goes ever on.."- Bilbo
"Hey Ho to the bottle..."- Merry and Pippin
"The Lay of Luthien"- Aragorn
"A Lament for Gandalf"- Lorien Elves
"The Finest rockets..."- Samwise

TTT
"Where is the Horse and the Rider"- Theoden
Theodred's Funeral Dirge- Eowyn
"My Land is Best"- Treebeard

ROTK
"Green Dragon"- Merry and Pippin
"Paths of the Dead"- Legolas
"Home is Behind.."- Pippin
Coronation- Aragorn

I felt they were all appropriate and not a single one took me out of the film. In fact, I felt that they added richness, depth and a sense of history. If PJ approaches The Hobbit with the same sensibilites, I'll be happy. Though, I don't feel the need to hear "Goblin Town" sung by Orcs or "Tra la la lally" by the Elves.

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