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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Nov 14 2011, 8:28am
Post #1 of 27
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Ladies: What is your honorific?
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I read this blog today about one woman's struggle to identify with Miss, Mrs or Ms - which made me wonder how others handle it.
When you have to choose an honorific, which do you select?
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Nightingale
Nargothrond
Nov 14 2011, 3:58pm
Post #2 of 27
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but sometimes if I want to carry a little extra weight (like writing a letter of complaint), I feel like 'Ms' gets me taken more seriously. Silly really....
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RosieLass
Doriath
Nov 14 2011, 7:53pm
Post #3 of 27
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- It annoys my mother.
- It's none of anyone's da*n business whether I'm married or not. They don't identify men by their marital status, why should women be pigeonholed that way?
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Elvenhome
Nov 14 2011, 11:12pm
Post #4 of 27
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I voted for Ms., which I definitely prefer in print. It just seems a lot more professional. But it is kind of fun to be addressed as Mrs. Robinson, because then we can sing the song :-D
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Elizabeth
Gondolin
Nov 15 2011, 1:34am
Post #5 of 27
(487 views)
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...on your reason #2. I don't particularly wish to annoy your mother, but it's nobody's business whether a woman is married or not.
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taekotemple
Hithlum
Nov 15 2011, 5:57am
Post #6 of 27
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I have been incorrectly been called Dr. a few times
[In reply to]
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I learned in grad school that many Master's Degree level counselors do get called that by clients, even if it's not correct to use it.
I use Ms. for the same reason as others stated: my marital status shouldn't dictate my honorific. Also, I use it because I often get mistaken for being around 10 years younger than I am, and while I may appreciate it in the future, being referred to as Miss can feel a little like I'm not being taken seriously.
I could just eschew honorifics altogether and go by the alphabet soup at the end of my name. MA, MFTI is always fun to confuse people with!
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Faenoriel
Dor-Lomin
Nov 15 2011, 7:34pm
Post #7 of 27
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I'll start using rouva (Mrs) when I'll get married or turn over 45.
Fake feminists, I dare you to try to stop me.
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HappyHobbitess
Nargothrond
Nov 15 2011, 10:48pm
Post #8 of 27
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I always liked it in Germany...
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...where all women are automatically addressed as "Frau," regardless of marital status. It just seemed dignified somehow. I enjoyed being a "Frau" over there.
Here at home, I would put down Ms.
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Alassëa Eruvande
Doriath
Nov 16 2011, 2:43pm
Post #9 of 27
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I don't sign my name as "Mrs. Alassëa Eruvande", though. And I've always distrusted "Ms."
I don't like the trend of kids sometimes calling their teachers "Miss First Name". I prefer "Mrs. Last Name", or "Miss Last Name". I make my cub scout kids call me "Mrs. Eruvande".
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Patty
Elvenhome
Nov 16 2011, 7:51pm
Post #10 of 27
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But why do you think they are fake femininists because they don't want their marital status known?
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or did I misunderstand you?
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Faenoriel
Dor-Lomin
Nov 17 2011, 3:14pm
Post #11 of 27
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Because they don't want ME to show MY marital status
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I'm refering to the annoying kind of feminists who among other things wage war againts any women using the title "miss". They're trying to get it banned in France, for example.
(Also in the news: wearing dresses is evil and a proof of a world-wide male consipracy. Staying home to tend your kids is the work of devil and shows you have no soul. Behaving sweetly means you're oppressed and need to be liberated into the wonderful world of aggression. Etc etc etc. Because there's only one way of being a woman, and that's the masculine way!)
That kind of action makes the feminist movement look silly, interferes with my rights to call myself what ever I want and to act as traditionally as I want, and takes away the attention from what I consider to be real problems. Such as violence against women and the fact that women still get paid less than men for the same job.
(This post was edited by Faenoriel on Nov 17 2011, 3:17pm)
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ElanorTX
Dor-Lomin
Nov 19 2011, 11:47am
Post #13 of 27
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usually Ms., sometimes Dr., and occasionally
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Because I kept my birth name, Mrs. Lastname does not apply. Ms. is a neutral, practical term.
My parents and nearly all my grandparents hold graduate degrees and taught me *not* to use the Dr. socially.
Sometimes in the outside business world, I do say, "This is Dr. Lastname calling...) It's more effective.
Living in Texas, I may encourage young children of friends to follow the Southern tradition of calling me Miss Firstname.
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Annael
Elvenhome
Nov 19 2011, 5:53pm
Post #14 of 27
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to becoming "Dr." sometime next year, so I can put the whole issue behind me.
But until then, "Ms.". Since I've been married but am not now, it's the only one that makes sense.
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Annael
Elvenhome
Nov 19 2011, 6:07pm
Post #15 of 27
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I agree that there have always been extremist elements in feminism - as there are in every movement. The problem is, pointing to those extremists is an effective way of marginalizing and dismissing the entire movement (as we see in our current politics where the "occupy" movement is getting characterized as rich slacker kids with nothing better to do instead of people with real problems). I'm glad to see that you do see some value in the things feminists have been fighting for since long before you were born.
I see an evolution in the movement. In the beginning, because there was no model available to women of how to be fully empowered in a female way, women tried on the male model. And succeeded, for the most part (when I was in college the number of women in medical or law school was tiny; now they make up more than half). But after a while most women realized it wasn't very fulfilling to have to put your personal life to one side to succeed. So now women are trying to come up with new models, and the more aware men are saying "actually, we kinda would rather be like that too - I want time with my kids as much as you do!"
So it's evolving towards a greater acceptance of all possibilities. Ultimately, I would say, the goal is to make sure that every woman at the end of her life doesn't feel that she was "a heroine without a story" who only lived for and through others, but was allowed to have her own identity. And that was what the whole "Ms." thing was meant to accomplish - to define a woman not in terms of her relationship to a man, but as a person in her own right.
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ByThorinsBeard
Nargothrond
Nov 19 2011, 6:57pm
Post #16 of 27
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My coworkers daughter calls me that. It's so cute.
I agree with the aforementioned comments about Mrs. and such. I hate being called Ma'am even though I'm 44 soon.
So I'll take Miss Firstname, despite the fact that I am not Southern. I think it is very polite and charming.
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Annael
Elvenhome
Nov 20 2011, 1:05am
Post #17 of 27
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is people who use "Dr. So-and-So, PhD" or "Dr. Blah Blah, DC" or the like. ONE OR THE OTHER, PLEASE!
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Faenoriel
Dor-Lomin
Nov 20 2011, 7:17pm
Post #18 of 27
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I'm glad to see that you do see some value in the things feminists have been fighting for since long before you were born.
But I'm not glad to be this outrageously misinterprented.
*counts to 10 before burts*
Okay, that helped.
I'm a feminist myself. Oh, and I'm a tomboy too. And I have no slightest intention of ever having children, or even getting married unless something completly unexpected and unintended (such as falling hopelessly in love) happens. I'm far more interested in my work and making a difference in the world.
Please do pay attention to my wording. FAKE feminists.
That was the whole point.
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Faenoriel
Dor-Lomin
Nov 20 2011, 7:26pm
Post #19 of 27
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You see, to me feminism means that I'm not seen as a woman, but as a person. And anyone who comes to me telling me what I should be like "because I'm a woman" is categorically ************. If it's another woman telling me I should be aggressive, masculine and blah blah blah to be a better woman, it makes no difference. It's the same bs as if someone else would tell me to be passive and pretty. I don't care what kind of a woman I am, because I don't really think of myself as a woman, but as a human.
Isn't that the whole point of our fight? To not to be seen and treated as "the other sex"? The deviant from the male norm? The small men?
(This post was edited by Faenoriel on Nov 20 2011, 7:29pm)
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taekotemple
Hithlum
Nov 21 2011, 4:18am
Post #20 of 27
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I think I get where your frustration is coming from
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When I was in college, taking my peace studies class, we talked about the different kinds of feminism. There's the maximizing feminists, who believe men and women are very different and women are better then men. Then there's the minimizing feminists, who believe that the differences are slight and just want to be treated with equal respect. I'm sure many feminists fall on a continuum between the two, rather than chose one ideology over the other.
I think that, for the younger female TORn members here, who were born after the civil rights movement, we have a very different view of being female than those who are old enough to understand what things were like before the civil rights movement. There were a lot of symbolic things that those women who fought for civil rights can still hold on to that might not have the same meaning to those of us who grew up after the laws changed.
To me, getting married and having children is a choice, not a necessity. And if I want to have children and be a stay at home mom, that again is a choice, not a necessity (unless that decision is based on finances.) The thing is, these are choices now. And no woman who chooses the so called "traditional" role is selling out, in my opinion. It's a pretty great honor and huge responsibility to raise a child. And if anyone who claims to be a feminist puts a woman down for doing that, then I wonder if they really are feminists. And if any woman puts another woman down for choosing to not get married and have children, that's pretty messed up too.
Luckily, we live in places where we can choose if we want to fall into the more traditional gender roles or not. And luckily, we can see ourselves as human first and make choices based on that.
I suppose this whole poll is interesting because once, these honorifics told people a lot more about a woman and her position in society. They really don't mean as much now because they're based on a now antiquated system of thinking. A woman's value these days isn't based on whether she is married or not (although there are still some people who think that way, and barring countries where women don't have rights.)
I think of myself as a human first, too. Of course, then the *ahem* twins remind me that my body is indeed female. But I really don't think as much about being female during the day as much as I think about the mostly non-gender specific things I need to get done before the day is over.
Ms., Miss, Mrs.,... I usually just choose Ms. because it's the most vague. I hardly ever see these honorifics anywhere on mail or on things like job applications anymore anyway.
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Annael
Elvenhome
Nov 22 2011, 8:48pm
Post #22 of 27
(408 views)
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Clearly I should have asked what a "fake" feminist is, instead of making an assumption that you were criticizing those who would like to free women from being identified in terms of their relationship to a man. I too have a problem with anyone of either sex who tells me who they think I should be. So, sorry. But it wasn't clear in your first post at all.
(This post was edited by Annael on Nov 22 2011, 8:56pm)
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Faenoriel
Dor-Lomin
Nov 23 2011, 1:51pm
Post #23 of 27
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No hurt feelings! And even if there had been such, it's obvious you didn't mean anything malicious, and I somewhat over reacted (again), so you're more than forgiven.
I didn't actually expect anyone to pay that much serious attention to my original comment. Otherwise I would have expressed myself more clearly.
(This post was edited by Faenoriel on Nov 23 2011, 1:53pm)
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zarabia
Dor-Lomin
Nov 25 2011, 7:50am
Post #24 of 27
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I'm glad "feminist" isn't a dirty word around here. It seems all too often women will say they for many of the things feminists stand for, but state categorically that they aren't a feminist because the term is so misunderstood and often demonized. Even among those of us who consider ourselves feminists there can be misunderstanding. I'm so glad everyone is on the same page now. This discussion was an important one, and one that should be had more often.
Anyway, I prefer Ms. for the same reasons given above. However, as an English as a Second/Foreign Language teacher, I find that students sometimes have difficulty pronouncing Ms. I tell them to call me by my first name (I usually teach adults), but many come from cultures where calling the teacher by her first name is unthinkable, so, on there own, they start to call me Miss (first name) and I'm fine with that.
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Gollum the Great
Nargothrond
Nov 29 2011, 6:50pm
Post #25 of 27
(376 views)
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I don't have a problem with it, actually, but I see no reason to hide the fact whether I'm married or not (I'm not.) Someday, I hope to be married to someone whom I will be proud of and I will want to be known as their wife. But for now, I'm just "Miss."
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