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[Combat Training] to Rivendell? a/k/a Let Us Hunt Some Orc, a fitness challenge (reposted from the Arena)

Tol Eressea

Oct 15 2011, 1:30am

Post #1 of 9 (290 views)
[Combat Training] to Rivendell? a/k/a Let Us Hunt Some Orc, a fitness challenge (reposted from the Arena) Can't Post

I've been asked to repost this here, my idea about a new kind of fitness challenge, like the Walk to Rivendell challenge but with combat training instead of walking.

This was originally posted within a thread in The Arena form, from which it will be deleted shortly. It's being moved from there with the hope it might get more responses here.




[tolkiennerd "3 to 5", in response to a thread entitled "Orcs v. Your own self":] I have trained in sword fighting for a long time but I'm very out of shape so any more the five and i will get worn out.

[Ruxendil Thoorg "Suggestion: [Combat-Training] to Rivendell?":] I previously made a similar comment above, about not being in as good a shape as I'd like to be. Maybe there ought to be a "Combat-Training to Rivendell" (this thread's version of Walk to Rivendell as regularly posted on the Main forum) to help pudges like us get back into orc-hewing, goblin-cleaving, foe-hammering shape.

It probably wouldn't be called "...to Rivendell". Instead perhaps "...to Hunt Some Orc".

Progress could be measured in whatever measure you set for yourself. as some examples, training hours per week, number of bouts, number of new techniques learned, or number of techniques/drills/forms/exercises reviewed, or degree of increase in consistency of success for a particular technique or combo...etc. just an idea.

(uh-oh, what can of worms am I opening here?)

[tolkiennerd "Good idea":] As well as as well as techniques/drills/forms/exercises ect. There can also info on different weapons and their use in history and tips for beingers.

[Ruxendil Thoorg "looking for show of hands":] Thanks and also good ideas on your part, tolkiennerd.

To all: I have some ideas on how to implement these ideas [EDIT: did I really write that?], if there's enough interest. I'd like a "show of hands" to know how many participants there might be. Participants would be those would actually go out and train in their respective style, trying to meet a goal set forth on a post-of-the-[month?], and log in their training progress in reply to the post, or would actually go out and try to apply the tips/info about weaponry or combat techniques described in the post. Also, anyone who'd like to take part in preparing these "Combat Training to Hunt Some Orc" posts, please PM me.

My initial thoughts on this possible project: originally my thought was to keep it non-style-specific, just as a way to encourage people like myself to get back into training in whatever style, like what Walk to Rivendell does for walkers. Tips for beginners and weapons info might work also, so long as it's basic enough for anybody to apply or utilize, regardless of style/background or lack thereof, and if it's sufficiently Tolkien-related, not too complicated to explain in a periodic forum post, and won't likely get anybody hurt.

Regarding subject matter (weapons), the most Tolkien-related weapon, I think, would be the German school of longsword. Also the single sword w/ shield, falchion or scimitar, dagger/knife or dual daggers/knives. Maybe axe also if I could find a source on it and if there's interest. However I think it might be ok to include the Italian school, which is probably similar enough to the German counterpart. I've done a little bit of Italian longsword.

I should probably mention my combat arts background. It's Asian martial arts mostly, including various Asian sword styles, but also several years of classical and historical (mostly Renaissance-era) European fencing. I have instructed, and hold instructor's ranks, in both karate and kung fu, the latter of which is my primary style and which I have studied (13yrs) and taught as a qualified instructor (8yrs) the longest of the styles I have studied/taught. Although I'm not trained in the German schools of Medieval weaponry, I know where to look for info and could come up with some links and references at least. As I said above, I have some longsword knowledge, though it's rather minimal.

My knowledge of Italian sabre would be relevant to the sword instruction Boromir gives to Merry and Pippin in FOTR. His references to sword parry numbers "2", "1", and "5", and the way they were applied in the movie, happen to coincide with the classical (and contemporary) sabre parry positions. That might be the subject of a first post.

I look fwd to seeing some "hands".

BTW I'm thinking of calling it the Let Us Hunt Some Orc combat-training fitness challenge, or Hunt Some Orc Challenge for short.

OK let's see some hands.

"That doesn't make much sense to me. But then again, you are quite small. Perhaps you're right."

Arwen's daughter

Oct 15 2011, 1:48am

Post #2 of 9 (167 views)
Well [In reply to] Can't Post

Just to be clear, the Walk to Rivendell isn't just for walkers. We log all kinds of miles and mile equivalents, including swimming, aerobics, even gardening. If you can't find enough participants to start your own thread, you guys' combat miles would be a big help to get us to our goal of all 13 dwarves + Bilbo & Gandalf to the Lonely Mountain by Dec. 2013.

How will you get to the Lonely Mountain?
Help TORn log enough miles to get us to Smaug's home by Dec. 2013
Walk to Rivendell - Thursdays on Main

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TORn's Costume Discussions Archive

Tol Eressea

Oct 15 2011, 2:29am

Post #3 of 9 (179 views)
I beg pardon [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't mean to mischaracterize Walk to Rivendell, sorry for my ignorance.

"That doesn't make much sense to me. But then again, you are quite small. Perhaps you're right."

Superuser / Moderator

Oct 15 2011, 4:05am

Post #4 of 9 (191 views)
I've cleaned up [In reply to] Can't Post

The Arena posts for you.

I think this is a great idea. And if people log their work through Walk to Rivendell, they can keep track of the exercise they're doing (and not have to double up the effort of finding an online function to log their work).

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauronís master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.

Ataahua's stories

Tol Eressea

Oct 15 2011, 2:32pm

Post #5 of 9 (188 views)
thanks ataahua! [In reply to] Can't Post

And I"m open to feedback on how to implement this idea. For instance, it may be better, as suggested above, to have "mileages" logged in under Walk to Rivendell, to supplement that rather than to compete against it, which was never the intent. Then what would be left, though? Just the tips and weapons info? Or something more? Technique of the (week? month?)? Also, it needs to be figured out how to measure combat training in terms of "Walking" mileage. Suggestions please.

How are gardening, aerobics, any non- walking/running/distance exercise activites converted to "miles" to Rivendell (and beyond)?

Also, I still don't know what degree of interest there is in this kind of project and I still would like a show of hands. I'd like to hear especially from ppl who have said they have formal combat or martial training such as warrioress (who sounds like she can kick some major orc a**) and those who have experience with weapons such as legolas_ the_elf. So far I've heard from tolkiennerd (hey that rhymed!)
How many others are there?

"That doesn't make much sense to me. But then again, you are quite small. Perhaps you're right."

Tol Eressea

Oct 15 2011, 2:47pm

Post #6 of 9 (165 views)
Sure - all are welcome there! [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not sure the thread fits your need as a place to meet and discuss combat techniques, but you could certainly use the the Walk threads to keep track of your exercise/progress. We've got conversions for many activities to "miles walked", some of which may be at least a little relevant to you. For instance:

1 hour of "activity": equivalent miles walked

1 hour of Fencing: 5.1 Miles walked
Martial arts*: 8.5 Miles walked (* including judo, karate, jujitsu, kickboxing, tae kwon do)
Krav maga: 8.5
Wrestling: 5.1
Archery: 3.0
Boxing, ring: 10.2
Boxing, punching bag: 5.1
Boxing, sparring: 7.2

And many other activities that I'm sure you could use to decide on a good number to use for your activities. Or, just make one up!

Whatever you decide to do, good luck, sounds like great exercise!


How will you get to the Lonely Mountain?

Help TORn log enough miles to get us to Smaug's home by Dec. 2013: Walk to Rivendell - Thursdays on Main (image courtesy of Arwen's daughter)

Tol Eressea

Oct 15 2011, 3:02pm

Post #7 of 9 (206 views)
My post above has a few details on converting exercises [In reply to] Can't Post

We were posting at roughly the same time, it seems.

Anyway - for any exercise, we compared the number of calories burned in an hour of the exercise to the number of calories burned when walking one mile. We then figured how many walking miles it would take to burn the same number of calories as the exercise in question.


How will you get to the Lonely Mountain?

Help TORn log enough miles to get us to Smaug's home by Dec. 2013: Walk to Rivendell - Thursdays on Main (image courtesy of Arwen's daughter)

Grey Havens

Oct 18 2011, 5:19pm

Post #8 of 9 (180 views)
Please do join us on the Walk! [In reply to] Can't Post

As you can see, there's already a diverse set of activities happening on the "Walk" - including aerobics, volleyball, swimming, dance, landscaping... Martial arts/combat training would be a great addition! (plus, we need to get our weekly average up if we're going to make it to the Lonely Mountain in time Tongue)

You could do a separate thread for discussion of technique, or you're welcome to post under the Walk thread - a kind of subgroup, perhaps? And if there isn't quite enough interest for a weekly discussion, maybe you could consider a biweekly or monthly schedule. Just some thoughts!

Happy hunting, RT!

Walk to Rivendell: There and Back Again Challenge - getting thirteen rowdy Dwarves, one grumpy Wizard, and a beleaguered Hobbit from Bag End to the Lonely Mountain

Join us, Thursdays on Main!

Tol Eressea

Oct 18 2011, 8:44pm

Post #9 of 9 (177 views)
Thanks for the welcome arandiel, and some thoughts in progress [In reply to] Can't Post

Glad to hear that the Walk has a place for such diverse activities including combat and martial training. Looking back, there doesn't seem to be much need for a separate recurrring thread for logging of combat training progress. so my original idea has turned out to be unnecessary. at best, i might be able to help by reminding ppl to log their combat training "miles" under your Walk posts, and I would be happy to help in that way.

regarding the idea of a recurring post regarding tips & info on the combat arts and weapons of Middle Earth, I'm still at the idea stage. at this point I'm thinking of it as a separate post, not more than once a month. Some ideas of mine include:

--Tips for beginners: getting your starter practice sword.

--Boromir's sword parries as taught to Merry & Pippin during FOTR (movie): observations, comparison with 19th century Italian sabre, and suggestions how he might have applied those parries using his broadsword and shield, in contrast to the way they would be applied to using the sabre.

--Eowyn's brief solo sword performance during TTT (movie): observations, suprising comparison with Chinese sword (jian) and surprising comparison with the use of Asian traditional use of forms a/k/a "kata" or "taolu" in combat training. Bonus: observations and analysis of the enveloping technique she used successfully against Aragorn.

--The twin knives of Legolas (movies): observations and comparison with Asian knife styles, discussion on basic knife grips and attack angles, contrast with European knife/dagger styles.

--The medieval longsword part 1, as model for Anduril, Glamdring and others, suggestions on how they might have been used in Tolkien's world, introducing the concept of single-time attack and defense with the longsword.

--The medieval longsword part 2: introducing the concept of half-swording and close combat with the longsword.

-- The multiple attackers scenario: principles and tactics for surviving an ambush by a band of Orcs, by yourself.

I'm open to suggestions and/or requests at this point.

"That doesn't make much sense to me. But then again, you are quite small. Perhaps you're right."


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