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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Oct 9 2011, 9:38am
Post #1 of 6
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** "The Scouring of the Shire ** 7. Sharkey
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With the main body of the ruffians vanquished, Frodo moves to confront "The Chief". With an escort of two dozen hobbits organized by Farmer Cotton, the party set out for Bag end.
It was one of the saddest hours in their lives. The great chimney rose up before them; and as they drew near the old village across the Water, through rows of new mean houses along each side of the road, they saw the new mill in all its frowning and dirty ugliness: a great brick building straddling the stream, which it fouled with a steaming and stinking overflow. All along the Bywater Road every tree had been felled.
...
‘They’ve cut it down!’ cried Sam. ‘They’ve cut down the Party Tree!’ He pointed to where the tree had stood under which Bilbo had made his Farewell Speech. It was lying lopped and dead in the field. As if this was the last straw Sam burst into tears.
 The old mill and its fate were apparently a tribute to Sarehole Mill, a water mill on the River Cole near Birmingham, England. Tolkien lived within 300 yards of the mill between the ages four and eight, and would have seen it from his house. He has also said that he used the mill as a location in The Lord of the Rings: It was a kind of lost paradise ... There was an old mill that really did grind corn with two millers, a great big pond with swans on it, a sandpit, a wonderful dell with flowers, a few old-fashioned village houses and, further away, a stream with another mill. I always knew it would go — and it did, said Tolkien in an interview in 1966, before the mill's restoration in 1969. It is now run as a museum by the Birmingham City Council. It is one of only two working water mills in Birmingham.
1. To what extent is the purpose of this episode to express Tolkien's grief at the industrialization of the Midlands area? What other purposes does it serve?
Their grieving is cut short by none other than Ted Sandyman, the erstwhile miller and ally of Lotho in much of the destruction. Initially, Sandyman jeers at the hobbits, but is shocked when he sees the entire entourage. He blows his horn, but Merry does him one better with his silver horn, and more hobbits respond in support of Frodo's delegation. ". . .with cheers and loud cries they followed the company up the road to Bag End." Bag End itself was in a sorry state: rundown and filthy. The bell doesn't work, so they pushed open the door.
‘This is worse than Mordor!’ said Sam. ‘Much worse in a way. It comes home to you, as they say; because it is home, and you remember it before it was all ruined.’
‘Yes, this is Mordor,’ said Frodo. ‘Just one of its works. Saruman was doing its work all the time, even when he thought he was working for himself. And the same with those that Saruman tricked, like Lotho.’ 2. Again I must ask about motivation. The industrialization of the English midlands was motivated by greed, and a number of people made significant fortunes out of it. Even Sauron could be seen to have benefitted in the sense of gaining power from his slaves. But neither Sandyman nor Lotho seems to have benefitted from the destruction of the Shire. Comments?
Just then, Saruman appears. A sudden light broke on Frodo. ‘Sharkey!’ he cried. Now, this is a controversial moment. Just what did they hobbits know about "Sharkey" at this point? Did the hobbits know that "Sharkey" was Saruman? Evidence that they did includes the fact that Frodo previously responded to mention of Sharkey by saying, "your precious master is a beggar in the wilderness. I passed him on the road." And Merry, just a moment ago, said, ‘If I had known all the mischief he had caused, I should have stuffed my pouch down Saruman’s throat.’ So, they seem to have known who he was. But, what "light broke" on Frodo? I believe it was the realization that Saruman was not masterminding this remotely, but actually in residence at Bag End. Atlas, on the other hand, said in a previous thread that he thinks Tolkien made a mistake.
3. Comments?
Gandalf and the hobbits met Saruman on the road August 28. According to Farmer Cotton, Sharkey arrived the end of September. Actually, it was the 22nd, according to the Tale of Years.
4. Is there a significance to Saruman's arriving in the Shire on Bilbo's Birthday, or is this just Tolkien being excessively tidy again?
5. If the hobbits had gone directly back to the Shire what might have happened differently?
Saruman appears delighted to have a chance to gloat:
You made me laugh, you hobbit-lordlings, riding along with all those great people so secure and so pleased with your little selves. You thought you had done very well out of it all, and could now just amble back and have a nice quiet time in the country. Saruman’s home could be all wrecked, and he could be turned out, but no one could touch yours. Oh no! Gandalf would look after your affairs.’
Saruman laughed again. ‘Not he! When his tools have done their task he drops them. But you must go dangling after him, dawdling and talking, and riding round twice as far as you needed. “Well,” thought I, “if they’re such fools, I will get ahead of them and teach them a lesson. One ill turn deserves another.” It would have been a sharper lesson, if only you had given me a little more time and more Men. Still I have already done much that you will find it hard to mend or undo in your lives. And it will be pleasant to think of that and set it against my injuries.’ So, Saruman's motivation is revenge for the destruction of Isengard and his ambitions.
6. Comment on his assessment of Gandalf, "when his tools have done their task he drops them." Any justice in that?
The local hobbits are eager to kill Sharkey, but Frodo restrains them, even after he actually attempts to stab Frodo, an attempt foiled by the mail shirt. Once more Frodo restrains the hobbits, saying, "He was great once, of a noble kind that we should not dare to raise our hands against. He is fallen, and his cure is beyond us; but I would still spare him, in the hope that he may find it." Frodo is acting directly as prescribed in the Bible by St. Paul (Romans 12): Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
And it works: Saruman prepares to leave, saying, "You have robbed my revenge of sweetness, and now I must go hence in bitterness, in debt to your mercy. I hate it and you!" He summons Grima Wormtongue to accompany him, and as they are leaving, Frodo appeals directly to Grima to leave Saruman and stay with them. As he wavers, Saruman reveals that Grima actually killed Lotho, and implies that he may even have eaten him. That proves more than Grima can take, and he stabs his erstwhile master. Fleeing, Grima is cut down by the hobbits.
Saruman's body then dissolves:
To the dismay of those that stood by, about the body of Saruman a grey mist gathered, and rising slowly to a great height like smoke from a fire, as a pale shrouded figure it loomed over the Hill. For a moment it wavered, looking to the West; but out of the West came a cold wind, and it bent away, and with a sigh dissolved into nothing. 7. This is similar to the end of Sauron. What is at work here?
And now the hobbits must turn to the task of rebuilding and recovery. And my task for the week is ended, as well.
8. Any more comments or last thoughts on this long and eventful chapter?
Sign up now for discussions of the LotR Appendices, beginning Oct. 17!
Elizabeth is the TORnsib formerly known as 'erather'
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Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea
Oct 9 2011, 10:37am
Post #2 of 6
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Good threads! What exactly was Saruman's plan here? What was he expecting to achieve? Was he trying to turn the Shire into his base similair to Isengard? And then possibly waylay the wise as they were going to Valinor in an act of spite? Only problem for him is that there is no way that he could challenge the forces of Gondor with a few ruffians so he could only destroy the Hobbits. Now given the fondness of Aragorn the lord of Gondor of Hobbits when he found out that Saruman had destroyed the land of his friends, killing many of them into the bargain, I would imagine that Aragorn wouldn't be best pleased when he found out. And I wonder then what type of fate he would devise for Saruman as a revenge to the wizard.
The other question is that is Saruman really dead? He is a Maia after all on a similair ranking to Sauron. Sauron's body was killed countless times before he properly died. Gandalf can fall into Moria with a Balrog and come back. Yes, that's exceptional I know! But could one servant really slay a Maia, even a Maia turned to evil by simply slitting his throat? Maybe Saruman's spirit is still about somewhere.
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Darkstone
Immortal
Oct 11 2011, 3:31pm
Post #3 of 6
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"Suburbia is where you bulldoze the trees, then name the streets after them."
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"My old man's a gardener,
He wears a gardener's hat
He wears cor-blimey trousers
And he lives in a Council flat."
-English folk song
1. To what extent is the purpose of this episode to express Tolkien's grief at the industrialization of the Midlands area?
Industrialization had been going on for quite some time in the Midlands. And a lot of the industrial sites (such as the Sarehole Mill) were actually regarded with nostalgia. So I’m thinking it’s more to do with the Addison Act of 1919, which transformed a lot of rural England into suburbia with affordable housing for the working class. Of course this upset a lot of rural inhabitants who’d prefer those types of people live somewhere else.
What other purposes does it serve?
An expression of Tolkien's deep personal fantasy as to what would have happened if the four members of Tea Club and Barrovian Society had returned home from war alive. They would have run the Trade Unionists out of England, restored The Rules of good King Edward VII, and set things right to the unanimous acclamation of all. Pure Mary Sue fantasy.
2. Again I must ask about motivation. The industrialization of the English midlands was motivated by greed, and a number of people made significant fortunes out of it. Even Sauron could be seen to have benefitted in the sense of gaining power from his slaves. But neither Sandyman nor Lotho seems to have benefitted from the destruction of the Shire. Comments?
To paraphrase Richard Bolt’s Sir Thomas More: “It profits a man nothing to give his soul for the entire world... but for the English Midlands?”
Such is the case of anyone who sells out everything and everyone he has. In the end they have nothing.
Just then, Saruman appears. A sudden light broke on Frodo. ‘Sharkey!’ he cried. Now, this is a controversial moment. Just what did they hobbits know about "Sharkey" at this point? Did the hobbits know that "Sharkey" was Saruman? Evidence that they did includes the fact that Frodo previously responded to mention of Sharkey by saying, "your precious master is a beggar in the wilderness. I passed him on the road." And Merry, just a moment ago, said, ‘If I had known all the mischief he had caused, I should have stuffed my pouch down Saruman’s throat.’ So, they seem to have known who he was. But, what "light broke" on Frodo? I believe it was the realization that Saruman was not masterminding this remotely, but actually in residence at Bag End. Atlas, on the other hand, said in a previous thread that he thinks Tolkien made a mistake.
3. Comments?
This is Frodo’s Bilbo moment.
“A sudden understanding, a pity mixed with horror, welled up in Bilbo's heart: a glimpse of endless unmarked days without light or hope of betterment, hard stone, cold fish, sneaking and whispering. All these thoughts passed in a flash of a second.”
4. Is there a significance to Saruman's arriving in the Shire on Bilbo's Birthday, or is this just Tolkien being excessively tidy again?
It’s also the day the Black Riders reached the borders of the Shire, and the day Bilbo gave up the ring, and the day Frodo accepted the ring, and the day Bilbo and Frodo left for the Undying Lands.
The Autumnal Equinox usually occurs on the 22 of September, and many harvest festivals are held around this day. (One reaps what one sows.) I also assume it has to do with the biannual battle between the golden Oak King and the dark Holly King. You can guess which is which.
5. If the hobbits had gone directly back to the Shire what might have happened differently?
Without Saruman personally pushing the oppression and destruction into high gear, perhaps the four hobbits might not have found the Shire quite so ready to join them in rebellion. Most people are willing to put up with a certain amount of injustice and oppression if otherwise things are kept safe and orderly. It’s only when the rulers inevitably step over some line that the people are willing to rise up out of their otherwise comfortable existence. It’s only then that rabble-rousers have a more effective audience than just the usual ineffective disaffected.
Saruman appears delighted to have a chance to gloat:
aka, monologuing.
So, Saruman's motivation is revenge for the destruction of Isengard and his ambitions.
So he says. But it’s not like he’s been a tower of honesty before this. I’d suspect other motivations. It's almost like how a little kid keeps acting up just to get its parents' attention. I bet he was extremely disappointed Gandalf and Galadriel weren't along with the four hobbits.
6. Comment on his assessment of Gandalf, "when his tools have done their task he drops them." Any justice in that?
Of course. Gandalf has always been one to set things in motion and move on.
“[Beorn] does not come here often, certainly not in the daytime, and it is no good waiting for him. In fact it would be very dangerous. We must go and find him; and if all goes well at our meeting, I think I shall be off and wish you like the eagles ‘farewell wherever you fare!’ “ They begged him not to leave them. They offered him dragon-gold and silver and jewels, but he would not change his mind.”
Later:
“Now we had this all out before, when we landed on the Carrock,” he said. “It is no use arguing. I have, as I told you, some pressing business away south; and I am already late through bothering with you people. We may meet again before all is over, and then again of course we may not. That depends on your luck and on your courage and sense; and I am sending Mr. Baggins with you. “
7. This is similar to the end of Sauron. What is at work here?
After death one is judged by the Higher Powers. It’s best to repent when one is still alive, like Boromir did.
8. Any more comments or last thoughts on this long and eventful chapter?
Hmmm…
******************************************
How many months to Hobbiton?
Six and ten.
Can I get there by candle-light?
Yes, there and back again.
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Oct 12 2011, 1:14am
Post #4 of 6
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Thanks for leading this chapter
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I don't have anything to add beyond Hamfast and Darkstone, but I've enjoyed all your questions and comments.
My question is: why did the hobbits kill Wormtongue? He just killed Saruman, whom they all saw had tried to kill Frodo, and whom Sam had been ready to kill. In a sense, he did them a favor. Did the assembled crowd kill him to avenge Lotho??? Or were they in a state of bloodlust and just wanted a chance to kill someone? Or was it the way that if dogs see something--anything--run, they will attack, and he ran?
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Oct 12 2011, 2:00am
Post #5 of 6
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I think it was because he was a component of the hated Sharkey regime (and probably earned a fair share of hatred on his own), plus the fact that he just confessed to murdering Lotho and they have seen him murdering Sharkey. Also some residual bloodlust.
Sign up now for discussions of the LotR Appendices, beginning Oct. 17!
Elizabeth is the TORnsib formerly known as 'erather'
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Oct 16 2011, 2:01am
Post #6 of 6
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Again I must ask about motivation...But neither Sandyman nor Lotho seems to have benefitted from the destruction of the Shire. Comments?
I would suspect that there was some benefit in prestige among the ruffians - or at least, perceived prestige, where the ruffians made any Hobbit helpers feel like they were "big guys" in their circle.
And they may have benefitted with extra portions of supplies, a few kegs of beer, preferential treatment.
Then again, some people are just plain...mean!
Thank you for leading us in the charge, Elizabeth! 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
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