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Wizards and their Staffs? does anyone undertand their Staffs?
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Bombadil
Half-elven


Aug 15 2011, 8:05pm

Post #1 of 31 (2145 views)
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Wizards and their Staffs? does anyone undertand their Staffs? Can't Post

Gandalf seemed to have a Stash of Staffs. Where?
First, he lost his narlly-looking one in Moria, (which he gets to Light UP by just blowing on it, like a Flashlight?)
then much later he had his second one is shattered by the WitchKing in Minas Tirith,
but later he had one at the Black Gates?

What is this?...
is there a "Wizard Staff-make-ing Guild" in the Streets of Minas Tirth?
Like the Rat-catchers?

Also, the powerful scene between G-Guy and S-man at Orthanc.....
OKAY S-man somehow telepahtically draws G-man's Staff to him?
then uses
G-man's narley wooden Staff to send him Skyhigh to the Top of Orthanc?
But from the looks of it in Movies there is no doorway to the top,
while G-man is marrooned up there?

Where is the Hatch?

What then?
did Saruman keep THAT Narley staff, as a souviner of his Defeat of Gandalf?
Seems that would make him...SO much more Powerful to command!
with 2 Staffs?

So,then he comes back in Fangorn with a really Cool NEW White one, kinda elvish in look....
just to have the WK bust that one up, later?

BUT he uses this Shiny NEW STAFF..
to Free Theodan earlier in the Story, from the spell of Saruman.

AND of course he didn't even have any saddle, or even Saddle Bags on Shadowfax...so WHERE is these "Here Now, Gone tomorrow?" Staffs?

Then he later Bursts Saruman's Staff?...before Grima Knifes him in the Back.
at this point,
even...jus' from...writing about it in this....post

I'm Stumped about Staffs.

"The Staff of PJ's Art Department of our New Movies, maybe, kinda, sorta,might know?" I have no clue....
xoxoxGoldberry says High-dee, Hoe! Ya ALL!


(This post was edited by Bombadil on Aug 15 2011, 8:06pm)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Aug 15 2011, 11:06pm

Post #2 of 31 (1309 views)
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Wizard Temps: For all your staffing needs. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Bombadil
Half-elven


Aug 15 2011, 11:33pm

Post #3 of 31 (1335 views)
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Kangi, Thanks, can I buy few Staffs....at Wholesale? [In reply to] Can't Post

Since I so busy messing around with Future in MiddelEarth...I forgot where I left my last STAFF?

I might need a few BACK-UP Staffs?
UPS?
or Normal Snail-mail from your Staff-makeing Headquarters.

Is this something like Amazon.com...
we don't Charge no Stinking TAXES, across the many different Kingdoms!

to be delivered jus' in time for the Opening of the Blacks Gates of Mordor,
but jus' don't be too HASTY.

To Mithrandir,
care of the City of Minas Tirth,
Gondor...
zip code??? (Do they come with a Bar Code?)

"Reinforcement WizardStaffs are being shipped by Boat from Valinor, so it.... may take some time to arrive"

xoxo OleB, OLD Ob Bong-alla...


(This post was edited by Bombadil on Aug 15 2011, 11:36pm)


Gollum the Great
Rohan


Aug 16 2011, 1:04am

Post #4 of 31 (1268 views)
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Staffs R Us // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Lord Sméagol? Gollum the Great? The Gollum! Eat fish every day, three times a day; fresh from the sea. Most Precious Gollum!

(This post was edited by Gollum the Great on Aug 16 2011, 1:05am)


Bombadil
Half-elven


Aug 16 2011, 8:58am

Post #5 of 31 (1295 views)
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Isn't there some Tolkien Scholar like....? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thomas Shippy or Elizabeth or Geordie who know the Background of Wizard Staffs. I don't know where to look that up? Appendices, The Sil? Unfinished Tales?

Seems to me that a Wizard's Staff
somehow Focuses His Power
and just like a Teachers pointer in a Classroom
make the students look one way at somethingie on the Blackboard?

This was given some real weight in the Edoras scene, when Hama didn't take G-man's "Walking stick" and then cured Theodan of S-man's spell by pointing it at HIM?

Grima was sure this was a "Biggie mistake", and paid for it Dearly, and almost murdered right away, by the King?

Later, in Minas Tirth, WOWIE! Gandalf kicks some serious BUTT with his staff,
reeling around mashing Orcs with it. and his sword...until Pippen saves his ASS. "Guard of the Citadel, In Deed!"

His New White one also, Lit up?!... when G-man road to save the troops from the Nazgul...What, it only Lites up at times? Well.... why not it Lit up all the time?
BUTT, I still confused about WHAT the HAY is going on..about Staffs?

Logic would tell you, that once G-man had his Staff Busted by the WitchKing, Gandalf would have lost his MAIN secret weapon?
but no.... he gets a New one...from where?

I'm just glad it wasn't a WizardWand..Wand's are weiney?
compared to Staffs....

"A New Staff is rising, it should probably look like G-man's Narly one in the Hobbits 1 & 2." xoxoxBrought to youz from the strange-looking mailbox hidden in the Old Forest.


lurtz2010
Rohan

Aug 16 2011, 9:51am

Post #6 of 31 (1263 views)
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your posts are a work of art Bombadil // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Bombadil
Half-elven


Aug 16 2011, 1:34pm

Post #7 of 31 (1258 views)
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"Thag you very buch!" [In reply to] Can't Post

As Bilbo said at the celebrations in Laketown, with his shocking cold.

I SOoooo.. want that line by our FAV Professor to be
included in our Movies...

Martin saying THAt will make... littl' ol' me, get chills if,... Not fall out of my seat.

That was jus' priceless, Humor by JRRT!

Back to Staffs, maybe it was My.... AvatarDUDE?

Bombadil who had a Woodshop out back
and my hobby the Wholetime I'm in MiddelEarth was crafting Staffs?
Only Wizard's
need apply for one?

Imean I can't just be pranceing around & around all the time,
now I could I? Did I have any... Hobby?

"Goldberry gives her seal of approval.... with a kiss, on EACH ONE! xoxo Crafty old one, Bomb


(This post was edited by Bombadil on Aug 16 2011, 1:35pm)


weaver
Half-elven

Aug 16 2011, 7:51pm

Post #8 of 31 (1272 views)
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this would make a good Scenes from the Hat... [In reply to] Can't Post

as in "ways Gandalf kept coming up with new staffs in the films"

I'm going to send it to our "hat mistress", Alassea Eruvande, crediting you...Smile

(For any who don't know what SFTH is, here's a link to a recent one..graffiti SFTH.)

To attempt some semi-serious answers though, here you go..

1. The light up staff -- I thought it was the stone that lit up, not the staff. Since Gandalf is the secret fire guy, he probably could set stones a glow with his wizard breath...

2. Saruman using both staffs -- My husband loved that bit (a non-book reader, I add). Thought it was the perfect way to show how Saruman was using Gandalf's power against him...the real question is, what did Saruman do with it afterwards, as you ask. You suppose he had it framed and hung it over the mantlepiece, like a trophy? He sure didn't use it again to get at Gandalf...maybe a wizard's staff loses its power after it's a part from its owner, after a while...?

3. Gandalf's post-Orthanc staff -- Figured the elves made him one in Rivendell...

4. Gandalf's the White's staff -- Figured the elves made him one in Lothlorien

5. Gandalf the White overpowering Saruman and busting his staff -- Well, he was new and improved then, so he could just take that guy out, any time, any where, no matter how many staffs Saruman had...

6. Black Gate staff -- uh, let's see...no elves to make one...I guess he must have hid a spare in the library just in case he ever needed one, yeah, that's right..

7. How'd he get on the top of the tower?
-- I figured it was a one way trap door -- poor Gandalf just hit it, it bashed open, he got deposited there, and then it slammed close. You could only open it from inside the tower...though it makes me wonder how Saruman got down from there later on. Guess he had an orc guard waiting on the other side. Or maybe you have to have the key or something to open it from the outside.

Giving myself a headache here trying to explain all this!...better quit while I'm behind or ahead, I can't tell which anymore!


Weaver




Mooseboy018
Grey Havens


Aug 16 2011, 7:52pm

Post #9 of 31 (1256 views)
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Good question. [In reply to] Can't Post

He definitely loses his first staff in Orthanc because his second one looks slightly different, and he didn't have it with him when he escaped. And I assume he got his white staff from Lothlorien, which is where he got his clothes. I don't remember him having a new one after the Witch King broke it until the Grey Havens scene though. I'll have to double check.

As for how they work... I have no idea.Laugh

I guess they're used to channel a wizard's magic, and they're also symbolic of their status as a wizard.


Bombadil
Half-elven


Aug 16 2011, 8:13pm

Post #10 of 31 (1246 views)
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Thank you, Weaver and MooseB! [In reply to] Can't Post

Really interesting THINKIN" ,
nice to know youz...
anytime you two ...
are Near the Old Forest

Look me UP!
I might show you how "Miracle Wizard's Staffs"
are made.

Goldberry is a great Cook!
especially if you are a vegetarian?
and youz...ALLLL,. All of TORn are invited....but bring a side dish?
& will sleep like a new-born baby
and you get to forget about

time?,
there.

xoxoo Bomby


(This post was edited by Bombadil on Aug 16 2011, 8:16pm)


taekotemple
Grey Havens


Aug 17 2011, 2:28am

Post #11 of 31 (1197 views)
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Olivander's! Oh wait, wrong story. Drat.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

“Tell me one last thing,” said Harry. “Is this real? Or has this been happening inside my head?”
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?”


Jonathan the Elf
Rivendell


Aug 17 2011, 6:14am

Post #12 of 31 (1251 views)
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Well noticed [In reply to] Can't Post

It makes sense that he gets a new staff when Aulvitar sends him back after killing the belrog. But getting a new staff after the witch king brackes his is a wierd thing.
Next time i watch it I'll deffinatly take more interest in the Wizards staffs.

Jonathan the Elf (fan)

“How shall a man judge what to do in such times? Yea ask. As he ever has judged, good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another thing among . It is a man’s part to discern them, as much as in the Golden woods an in his own house” said Aragorn


Bombadil
Half-elven


Aug 17 2011, 4:42pm

Post #13 of 31 (1239 views)
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Jus' a bit off Topic? [In reply to] Can't Post

OPPS!..Wha?

Goldberry missed her period....and she is in her First Tri-Mester...
Soooo. this New Baby bombadil will be Born with a
"Silver Wizard-Staff in his Mouth"

.......forrr suree-e!

(Even though we have been practising the Rythum-method for many centurys?)
This is our First, Tommy Jr.!

I hear they have LaMaze classes in Buckland, so we signed UP!

"Amazeing thing, she never, ever gets Morning Sickness"..maybe it's...the Staff I made for her, a while ago? xoxoxYour New, Father?, Bomb.


ByThorinsBeard
Rohan


Aug 17 2011, 6:59pm

Post #14 of 31 (1224 views)
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I only just noticed in the film version of FoTR [In reply to] Can't Post

the Isengard tower Gandalf is kept in is shaped just like the top of Saruman's staff.

Perhaps, there is an Istari uniform and accessories supply store somewhere in Middle Earth.

"Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you anywhere." - Albert Einstein.


Bombadil
Half-elven


Aug 17 2011, 11:11pm

Post #15 of 31 (1205 views)
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BTBeard I got that connection right away...Maybe because I'm a graphic designer at times.. [In reply to] Can't Post

OH YES, Saruman's Staff was a "Matching Staff, out of obsidion,
to go with his Orthanc" Tower...

Some.... very lite on his feet?,
Elvish interior designer from Rivendale
helped him pick out his Staff here in the Old Forest from My Ancient Woodshop
before,
they built Orthanc in the Second AGE.

"So, YOU LIKE?...sooo lets... just say we setz... some really HUGE pretty Pearly thingie... in the Middle of the top"
wha? youzz think S-man?...Devine?, don't yah know?"

Saruman, "SOLD! Now build me a Tower to Match!"

Later, Gandalf jus' picked a disguarded, narley one, no other WIZARD wanted? At my "Old Forest Yard Sale" in 1247 Second age.

"G-man had no ego, S-man much ego" as Goldberry Noticed, yah know? a woman's intuition? xoxoxo Bomb-ditty, Bomb-Ditty, Boobster.


Darkstone
Immortal


Aug 18 2011, 1:12pm

Post #16 of 31 (1246 views)
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One wonders, of course.... [In reply to] Can't Post

...if somewhere Gandalf has a wizard's tower with a very funky looking apex.

******************************************
Brothers, sisters,
I was Elf once.
We danced together
Under the Two Trees.
We sang as the soft gold of Laurelin
And the bright silver of Telperion,
Brought forth the dawn of the world.
Then I was taken.

Brothers, sisters,
In my torment I kept faith,
And I waited.
But you never came.
And when I returned you drew sword,
And when I called your names you drew bow.
Was my Eldar beauty all,
And my soul nothing?

So be it.
I will return your hatred,
And I am hungry.


Bombadil
Half-elven


Aug 18 2011, 5:38pm

Post #17 of 31 (1164 views)
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Great Point, but G-man didn't ever have a..... homeBase, Did HE?.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe as a kid in Valinor, but that is really interesting to think about...
.
Where oh, where has my Castle gone?
I mean he was called the Grey Pilgrim,
Wanderer, etc...

NEW Thought!
What is Radagast the Brown's...
Staff gunna look like?
Now that is an interesting topic....to imagine...

IDEAS, Kiddies? xoxox Bom...


Darkstone
Immortal


Aug 18 2011, 5:43pm

Post #18 of 31 (1211 views)
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A hint he may have had one somewhere in Dale. [In reply to] Can't Post

"The fireworks were by Gandalf: they were not only brought by him, but designed and made by him; and the special effects, set pieces, and flights of rockets were let off by him."
...

"Hundreds of musical crackers had been pulled. Most of them bore the mark DALE on them; which did not convey much to most of the hobbits, but they all agreed they were marvellous crackers."

At least Dale seems to be where he had his firework factory.

******************************************
Brothers, sisters,
I was Elf once.
We danced together
Under the Two Trees.
We sang as the soft gold of Laurelin
And the bright silver of Telperion,
Brought forth the dawn of the world.
Then I was taken.

Brothers, sisters,
In my torment I kept faith,
And I waited.
But you never came.
And when I returned you drew sword,
And when I called your names you drew bow.
Was my Eldar beauty all,
And my soul nothing?

So be it.
I will return your hatred,
And I am hungry.


(This post was edited by Darkstone on Aug 18 2011, 5:44pm)


Bombadil
Half-elven


Aug 18 2011, 6:09pm

Post #19 of 31 (1208 views)
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DStone, you ARE on..... to Somethin'....! [In reply to] Can't Post

Mayde it's THE Dwraves that are so goood
at makeing thingies....
they were in league with Gandalf, all the time.

I can see that,
THEY mined all the ingreiENTS....
yetmuch of it might have taken many volunteer
grade-school WoodElvish fingers
to wrap them and paint them.

Make them Pretty to look at.

I can see it NOW!
Afterschool,extra credit, Merit badges for the kids called "Fireworks"
It was requirement to get their ElvishEagle Scout STAFF!

Yeah, you are right....Dale is where Gandalf had a Hospice, ready for him, anytime.
"Since Goldberry and I can only stand to have Houseguests
for about Century, then you are GONE!"

xoxoxo I'm Free of Fireworks! OB


Eruonen
Half-elven


Aug 18 2011, 11:37pm

Post #20 of 31 (1199 views)
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The staff (and wand) issue has many elements to consider [In reply to] Can't Post

Tolkien would have been aware of wizards (wise ones) in celtic, nordic - anglo- saxon and other mythologies.
One way to consider the staff is symbolic:

http://www.aseekersthoughts.com/...l-and-mythology.html

"The Wizard's Staff - Symbol and Mythology

The Wizard's Staff "represents" the contents of Sacred Books and Esoteric Teachings that the Wizard leans on for support during his earthly Journey. It Symbolizes the Wisdom and Knowledge that the Wizard has Earned from all of his Studies and Experiences."

Another related to the Tree and Wood:
"The ash belongs to the trilogy of sacred Irish trees, the other two being the Oak and the Hawthorne tree. Ash is the tree of rebirth, of protection and divination. Druid wands were often made of ash or hazel and Yygdrasill, the World Tree, is thought to be an ash.

The staff of the good god and chief of the Tuatha De Dannon, the Dagda, is believed to be made of ash wood. In County Limerick, the Lios is the largest stone circle in Ireland. Constructed in about 2500 BC, a limestone outline of the Dagda’s staff was found in the foundation of the circle when it was excavated."

“Myth of Cad Goddeu” or “The Battle of the Trees.
The action of the poem centers on the use of a magical staff that transforms trees into fighting men."

I think the staff was symbolic and a tool...was it vested with power? I don't think so...it may have channeled power.

I really disliked the Witch King scene....for the movie they were trying to create the ultimate bad guy...but it was not consistent with their relative powers.

Gandalf had innate divine powers...a wooden staff was just part of his disguise IMO.


(This post was edited by Eruonen on Aug 18 2011, 11:45pm)


duats
Grey Havens

Aug 19 2011, 1:16am

Post #21 of 31 (1188 views)
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Er, correct me if I'm wrong [In reply to] Can't Post

But I am 99% certain that Gandalf did NOT have a staff at the Black Gates. He didn't have one at the coronation either.

We didn't see his new staff until the Grey Havens.


Bombadil
Half-elven


Aug 19 2011, 6:43am

Post #22 of 31 (1163 views)
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You are correct... Nice Catch! [In reply to] Can't Post

He does NOT have a staff at the Black Gates..my mistake. He only has Pippen with him on his horse. and No staff at their meeting planning the Attack on the Gates, in Denthor's Hall.as well.

So I guess he needed some time after the WK to have someone make him a new Staff, but who Does this?


FantasyFan
Rohan


Aug 19 2011, 11:28pm

Post #23 of 31 (1109 views)
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It is like a Jedi lightsaber [In reply to] Can't Post

A jedi makes his own lightsaber - as a matter of fact, making a lightsaber is sort of a final exam for a Jedi apprentice.

So, perhaps Gandalf makes his own staffs! (Staves?) And like a good interior decorator, he goes with the theme of the place he is working in. So, as rugged and ragged Gandalf the Grey, his staff is gnarly. In Lothlorien, under the influence of the elves, he makes a much more elegant design that totally goes with the new white robes. Similarly, other staffs are made that may have an elven or gondorian influence.

Being a magical dude, Gandalf doesn't require a lot of time or materials for the making of a staff. Whatever is at hand can be transformed into a channel for the power that is, of course, mostly present in the mind and spirit of an Isatar anyway. They turn out to be of wood because, well, Gandalf likes wood and there's lots of wood around, in the same way that Saruman likes processed materials and therefore has a much less-natural looking staff.


"That is one thing that Men call 'hope.' Amdir we call it, 'looking up.' But there is another which is founded deeper. Estel we call it, that is 'trust.' It is not defeated by the ways of the world, for it does not come from experience, but from our nature and First Being. If we are indeed the Eruhin, the Children of the One, then He will not suffer Himself to be deprived of His own, not by any enemy, not even by ourselves. This is the last foundation of estel, which we keep even when we contemplate the End. Of all His designs the issue must be for His children's joy."
Finrod, Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth, HoME X Morgoth's Ring



stormcrow20
Gondor


Aug 21 2011, 6:39am

Post #24 of 31 (1163 views)
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Guess what? He is getting yet *another* staff in The Hobbit! [In reply to] Can't Post

It can be seen behind his hat in the Entertainment Weekly photo. I posted a close-up here. We can see it again in the third production video where Sir Ian, Cate, Hugo and Peter are on the Rivendell set. This is the best image I could find:



I agree that a wizard's staff is a symbol of and channel for his power. And I very much like the idea of the elves making them for Gandalf. FantasyFan's theory on the materials of Gandalf's and Saruman's staffs is interesting as well.

The moment when he put the crystal in the staff in Moria is wonderful, and Ian's gesture is perfect. Lighting a crystal seems much more realistic than just lighting the top of his staff, especially since crystals really were believed by some people and cultures to possess magical properties.

I still wish Gandalf's staff had broken on the bridge of Khazad-dum in the film, as it really would have shown how much power he was exerting, and it would have been much more dramatic, in my opinion. And I still think that the Witch-king breaking Gandalf the White's staff diminishes the impact and symbolism of Gandalf breaking Saruman's staff. The symbolism being that Gandalf was casting Saruman out and taking his place; becoming "Saruman as he should have been."

I can't wait to see how they have designed Radagast's!



A greenlight from the shadows shall spring!

(This post was edited by stormcrow20 on Aug 21 2011, 6:44am)


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Aug 22 2011, 12:46am

Post #25 of 31 (1108 views)
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I like Gandalf's staff he had in the Shire the best! [In reply to] Can't Post

The way he could stick his pipe into the top of it for storage was so awesome! It was the most rustic of them all.

His second staff looked very much like his first one... so I'm thinking he procured it the same way he must have done his first. Finding the right sapling and fashioning it just right. I'm also thinking he uses a very special wood since those both seemed to have the same growth pattern and colour. Maybe there's a special type of tree that is a good conductor for his powers (fire) since this one can channel power/light into a gem inserted at the top to light the way into Moria.... AND it had his rune carved into it. He must have done that when he was sitting under some cover during a rain storm or some other time when he was way bored!!

His third staff I'm thinking he got from Galadriel when he was reborn and robed as Gandalf the White. It's style is very much like Lorien's flets. This one could also conduct his powers with a massive light without any apparent adjustments.

Then his fourth one could have been given to him again by Galadriel before returned to the Shire with Bilbo in the cart for their journey to the Havens.

The only other piece of wood he used as a staff was when he grabbed the pole from Denethor's "staff" when he rode Shadowfax into the tombs to save Faramir.

It will be SO interesting to see what his staff is like in The Hobbit!!! *twitch*

sample

I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.



TORn's Observations Lists
Unused Scenes


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