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Fionnan2
Rivendell
Aug 22 2007, 8:55pm
Post #1 of 7
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"I pity even his slaves"?
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When Gandalf says this,does he mean that he has sympathy for orcs and trolls?
Fionnan
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orcbane
Gondor
Aug 23 2007, 12:25am
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can you tell me where it is ?
But as to the idea, I think he could. I just listened to Luthien saying something like 'sleep oh woebegone spirit and forget bitter life for a while'.
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Penthe
Gondor
Aug 23 2007, 12:40am
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Pity is an incredibly strong power in LOTR, much more so than in real life where it sometimes seems to be a more negative than positive emotion. Eowyn exists in a real world paradigm, where Gandalf embodies the Middle-Earth values, I guess.
So pitying the slaves of Sauron, and even pitying the great evil powers themselves, is a choice of great strength as well as something to indicate the general goodness and niceness of the character speaking the words. Pity gives moral power over those pitied, I think. It gives an option for victory without destruction and bitterness.
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Beren IV
Gondor
Aug 23 2007, 12:49am
Post #5 of 7
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I would only assume the answer to be 'yes'.
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I think Gandalf says this to Denethor. The context is that Denethor is proposing that the Ring be kept under lock and key in the dungeons of Minas Tirith where it could do no harm, and if Sauron managed to break in and get it anyway, the Men of Gondor wouldn't be troubled by it because Sauron had to kill them to get at it. The contrast, of course, is that Denethor pities only the people of Gondor, and really only his family and his soldiers.
I don't know what Gandalf's opinion of the optimal thing to do with an orc who is completely in one's power would be, to put it out of its misery or to try to reform it. It depends on your interpretation of what the orcs represent.
Once a paleontologist, now a botanist, will be a paleobotanist
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a.s.
Valinor
Aug 23 2007, 1:03am
Post #6 of 7
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ROTK Book V Chapter 4 (Siege of Gondor)
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Gandalf to Denethor:
You think, as is your wont, my lord, of Gondor only,' said Gandalf. 'Yet there are other men and other lives, and time still to be. And for me, I pity even his slaves.
"an seileachan"
"The success of love is in the loving - it is not in the result of loving. Of course it is natural in love to want the best for the other person, but whether it turns out that way or not does not determine the value of what we have done."
~~Mother Theresa
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orcbane
Gondor
Aug 24 2007, 9:15pm
Post #7 of 7
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Now I remember that line!
Great sparring tween Gandalf & Denethor.
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