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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
TheOneRing.net Exclusive: Behold! Thorin Oakenshield and Orcrist!
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architecthis
Lorien


Jul 18 2011, 2:18pm

Post #276 of 401 (9050 views)
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Aragorn did not look old either.. [In reply to] Can't Post

and, in my opinion, it really didn't matter. In fact if anything it added more dimension to his character.


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 18 2011, 2:19pm

Post #277 of 401 (9069 views)
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Question... [In reply to] Can't Post

How does "not being old," in and of itself, add more dimension to a character? Curious about that.


architecthis
Lorien


Jul 18 2011, 2:21pm

Post #278 of 401 (9035 views)
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I didn't say he wasn't old [In reply to] Can't Post

He was old, the fact that he was not OBVIOUSLY very old, added a sense of mystery to the character


kiwifan
Rohan

Jul 18 2011, 2:35pm

Post #279 of 401 (8994 views)
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Altaira, I stand corrected [In reply to] Can't Post

and I thank you for explaining graciously and patiently and not making me eat humble pie ...Smile
(they were a great rock band but might be a bit indigestible by now Evil)

(sorry, couldn't resist Wink).

Good thing I never put a photograph of my face in my user profile as an avatar because now I'd have to decorate it liberally with virtual egg --- and I don't know the first thing about using photoshop! Frown

My apologies to newsfrombree for doubting his/her (?) linguistic proficiency with regard to this saying! Evil

I find it quite astonishing that, in all the forty years of my love affair with the English language, I've never come across that particular expression, either in any of the thousands of books I've read (I'm not exaggerating, word of honour!) or while living in England, Canada, and the U.S.A. Never too old to learn, I hope...

Yes, the adjective 'humble' fits, it was just use of the verb I found confusing ('to humble' on its own it really is fairly negative), and I daresay I take things too literally at times. Unsure

At any rate, I'm not the only person in the world who has a bit of a problem with that expression, see http://blogs.msdn.com/b/heatherleigh/archive/2005/10/03/476626.aspx
(*heaves relieved sigh*)

My guess is that this extraordinary honour is due to PJ because he really seems to care for the fans. After all, he got Mark Ordesky into a situation where he pretty much had to promise the world premiere of RotK to Wellington, NZ, which I consider a very adroit piece of manoeuvering on PJ's part.

And I do think we deserve it, considering we spend countless hours, days, weeks, lifetimes discussing, obsessing, even fighting over the details of his previous masterpieces and now on his work-in-progress! Tongue

That said, I'd better tear myself away from this enticing thread and do some much-needed housework, deal with correspondence, go do my weekly political activist bit...

'Goodness gracious, you really are a messie!' 'Oh no, I'm not, these are all just mathoms...'


Phibbus
Rohan


Jul 18 2011, 2:39pm

Post #280 of 401 (9062 views)
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Perhaps... [In reply to] Can't Post

They're going to play up Thorin's direct descent from Durin the Deathless as a rationale for his younger-than-his-years appearance? I recently sat myself down finally to watch the extended scenes from the The Two Towers, and they did add in that one where Eowyn discovers Aragorn's Dunedain longevity.

Man is but an ass if he go about to expound this dream.


architecthis
Lorien


Jul 18 2011, 2:54pm

Post #281 of 401 (8978 views)
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I think it's certainly possible.. [In reply to] Can't Post

and an interesting idea. I was just trying to offer another perspective on his "middle-aged" look and Aragorn came to mind.

I think sometimes to use this type of reasoning (not the most obvious) in translating a character to the screen for us can be more successful than trying to be as literal as possible... but that's just my opinion.


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 18 2011, 3:09pm

Post #282 of 401 (8963 views)
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Well with Aragorn [In reply to] Can't Post

It's different since he has such a longer lifespan than mortal men. Given that Aragorn lived for 210 years, at 87 he wasn't even halfway through his life- the character of him was in a sense emphasised by the fact he was (to a normally spanned human) incredibly old, and yet here he was appearing to be just into his middle years. That said, Aragorn isn't young, and the PJ originally cast Stuart Townsend who really was too young, it was only once PJ realised his mix up that the last minute replacement of Viggo Mortensen took the role. What was great about Viggo was even though he was a handsome man (and handsome in quite a polished, angular 'american' way- he was no 'bit of rough' like Sean Bean), he really did grunge down incredibly well and had a strangely 'haunted' look to him. There was something about him, some quality that no other human face in the films had that made you think he could be a man of superior blood. That shot during the 'cost of love' scene where his corpse transforms into his own sarcophagus statue shows how striking a look he actually had- it translated perfectly into the marble. Granted he did look pants in the full beard during his coronation (Viggo was never going to fit the kind of 'jolly old king' look, though i note, his beard then was actually fuller than Thorin's here) he had a look which was very noble. Then again, i'm glad Denethor looked nothing like him- the blood of numenor has more than one look in it's dna and John Noble looked superb as Denethor with the slicked hair and long hanging face- another one that could very easily be transposed into marble.

With Thorin's age though, i can't really see what point it's going to emphasise. His impetuousness? He's been waiting a hundred and seventy years. His fitness? In the end it's the oldest and youngest members of the company who bite it at Five Armies- natural selection suggests that fitness and experience were the key things lacking respectively from the casualties. Leadership qualities? He's single-minded and vengeful, these are not the qualities of a strategic or diplomatic mind. My hunch right from day one was that the reason they (were alway going to) made him younger was for commercial and cinematic reasons rather than reasons based on emphasising traits of his character.

Dr Death


little mouse
Rivendell

Jul 18 2011, 3:27pm

Post #283 of 401 (8970 views)
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now we know who might be Tauriel`s love interest [In reply to] Can't Post

 


architecthis
Lorien


Jul 18 2011, 3:33pm

Post #284 of 401 (8971 views)
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I think your going to find [In reply to] Can't Post

or I hope that we will find that Richard Armitage will successfully convey those personality traits that are central to Thorin's character in the book (single-mindedness, vengeful, etc.) much in the same way that Viggo was able to do for Aragorn in LOTR. In fact he, also, looks "haunted" here to me, which is appropriate if you consider the fact that he has been in exile and thinking of revenge for so many years. He is also the company's leader and does become a hero at the battle of five armies.

I think your right tho in stating that he is probably made to be younger looking for commercial reasons, simply because some people wont be sold on, or connect as much with an old man Thorin. That's not to say I am not happy with him...I think that in translating a book for film you have to make these sort of decisions and you just can't be 100 percent literal.


Bladerunner
Gondor


Jul 18 2011, 3:37pm

Post #285 of 401 (8894 views)
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Very Nice! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks! Nice job.


Snulle
Bree

Jul 18 2011, 3:40pm

Post #286 of 401 (8961 views)
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Ouch! [In reply to] Can't Post

Just the thought makes me cringe. I really really hope you're wrong ... Unsure


Bladerunner
Gondor


Jul 18 2011, 3:49pm

Post #287 of 401 (8903 views)
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His eyes remind me of [In reply to] Can't Post

a younger Edward James Olmos (circa 1980's Miami Vice).


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 3:52pm

Post #288 of 401 (8814 views)
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Not at all [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Good thing I never put a photograph of my face in my user profile as an avatar because now I'd have to decorate it liberally with virtual egg



Of course you wouldn't. There are so many nuances to the word 'humble' I can see how it would be very easy to wonder which of them was intended.


Quote
thank you for explaining graciously and patiently and not making me eat humble pie



Ha! Great pun. But really, you're the gracious one. Smile


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


kzer_za
Lorien

Jul 18 2011, 3:57pm

Post #289 of 401 (9042 views)
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I'm kind of surprised by how negative the front-page comments are [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2011/07/17/46145-theonering-net-exclusive-behold-thorin-oakenshield-and-orcrist/#comments

Not just on Thorin, but on all the dwarves. It seemed to me that most people were basically happy with the dwarves, Kili and some minor details aside.


(This post was edited by kzer_za on Jul 18 2011, 3:58pm)


Bladerunner
Gondor


Jul 18 2011, 4:15pm

Post #290 of 401 (8858 views)
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I don't think it was fitness and experience [In reply to] Can't Post

that were the key things lacking respectively from the casualties. As the leader and heir, and being in the front of the dwarven assault, Thorin would have been the primary target and threat for Bolg and his bodyguards, so he would have received the brunt of the goblins' fury, and his nephews, Kili and Fili, would have fought to the death to protect their uncle. In the end, I think it had to do less with their fitness and experience and more with their place in the dwarven heirarchy.


little mouse
Rivendell

Jul 18 2011, 4:17pm

Post #291 of 401 (8863 views)
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ha ha ha, I know [In reply to] Can't Post

the idea is silly, but just imagine......


Bladerunner
Gondor


Jul 18 2011, 4:25pm

Post #292 of 401 (8933 views)
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I noticed that as well [In reply to] Can't Post

It may have to do with the differences in representative populations that each forum attracts. The general consensus of the posts may vary depending on the type of forum being used (i.e.- response patterns from Facebook, Yahoo, TORn Forum, TORn front comments, Twitter, etc. may all be very different). The audiences vary from each. It would be interesting to see a statistical comparison of responses based on the sample populations for each news media used.


Ref
Rivendell


Jul 18 2011, 4:27pm

Post #293 of 401 (8943 views)
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Well I'm happy with the dwarves [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll put my hands up now, I am no hard-core, purist Hobbit fan. However, The Hobbit was read to me as a child by my late father so I know a fair bit.

But regarding Thorin's age seriously, he has been cast and written younger - this device worked with Frodo in LotRs, I'm sure that I'll work in TH. Armitage is an excellent actor - your beloved character is in more than capable hands.

Viewers of a nervous disposition may be interested to know that your television is off and I am speaking to you from inside your head...

*~* Hugh Dennis, Mock the Week *~*

Icon made by the talented miss_jaffacake


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 18 2011, 4:28pm

Post #294 of 401 (8787 views)
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Yes, this, 100 % [In reply to] Can't Post

The problem with the Gimli look is that enormous amount of akward, unnatural lumpy stuff on their faces. And no DrDeath, you can't give me Tolkien quote where he says they have lumpy faces.

And I'm afraid to say "it's how people usually imagine them" is a rather weak argument. Firstly, who has the right the say "most people are of this opinion", and secondly the opinion that Dwarves look like Gimli comes from PJ, not from JRRT, and therefore I'm not entitled to agree with the image.

As for continuity, well, they already have their sliding scale of Gimliness. Some Dwarves look more Gimlish and the others less. That's a good way to do it. The visual connection to LotR is kept, while diversity is created and imgination allowed to bloom. Smile

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


Phibbus
Rohan


Jul 18 2011, 4:29pm

Post #295 of 401 (8887 views)
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I'm betting... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
It would be interesting to see a statistical comparison of responses based on the sample populations for each news media used.

that Warner Bros. has a team in marketing doing precisely what you describe and will guard their tabulations more closely than Smaug.

Man is but an ass if he go about to expound this dream.


architecthis
Lorien


Jul 18 2011, 4:37pm

Post #296 of 401 (8863 views)
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Good Point [In reply to] Can't Post

Frodo was like 50 when he left the Shire...

The movie would have been quite different if he had been portrayed that way...not to mention the sense of urgency that is felt in the movie from the time of Bilbo's birthday party to when Frodo actually leaves being absent in the books...it's actually about a 30 year span.

As much as I LOVE the books, what works for a novel does not necessarily work for film.


(This post was edited by architecthis on Jul 18 2011, 4:38pm)


Eruthurin
Rivendell


Jul 18 2011, 5:04pm

Post #297 of 401 (8804 views)
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Yeap, I join the congratulations! [In reply to] Can't Post

Fantastic you got the exclusive!.... that speaks very high of this site and of course, MrCere and all the guys who make this place an awesome paradise for Tolkien fans....
*big hug to all of you!*

:: All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you ::

(This post was edited by Eruthurin on Jul 18 2011, 5:06pm)


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 18 2011, 5:17pm

Post #298 of 401 (8776 views)
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I'm afraid that's not much consolation [In reply to] Can't Post

The sight of a few hundred nameless old Dwarves at the Battle of Five Armies won't do much to fulfil my desire to see the one and only Thorin Oakenshield rendered as Tolkien envisioned him. Some of the twelve peripheral Dwarves (most notably Balin) look suitably weathered and experienced, and for that I'm thankful, but they ultimately don't matter. If there was one Dwarf I wanted them to get right, it was Thorin. Attempting to justify the treatment received by Thorin on the grounds that there will be better-looking Dwarves elsewhere in the films is a bit like miscasting Frodo and then surrounding him with a perfectly-cast Sam, Merry and Pippin a problem wrapped up in nice frills is still a problem. My concern is primarily for the individual character, and making the rest of his race look the way I think he should look isn't going to make him look better.


Kyriel
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 5:26pm

Post #299 of 401 (8800 views)
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They seem mostly positive to me [In reply to] Can't Post

Or am I misunderstanding your post?

Anyway, we've always had a lot of differing opinions around here.


Those left standing will make millions writing books on the way it should have been. --Incubus


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 18 2011, 5:41pm

Post #300 of 401 (8805 views)
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All right [In reply to] Can't Post

I am sorry if you think Ian McShane's solemn gaze is 'hideous', but surely you acknowledge that the 'hangdog' expression is not permanently fixed on his face? For example, here is a picture of the man smiling; the lines on his face are somewhat smoothed out and he certainly doesn't look like he's about to 'burst into tears'! The picture I posted earlier was from some sort of high-contrast photoshoot which seems to emphasise the lines and crags of his face it's part of the reason I selected it (remember, 195-year-old Dwarf), and while he does have a somewhat mournful look in his eyes, I don't see why he shouldn't be able to, you know, put on different expressions, as seen in the above picture of him with his wife. I actually think the capability to put on the brink-of-tears look would be a wonderful asset for the scene where Thorin learns that one of his allies has betrayed him, stolen the birthright he desires so greatly and handed it to his enemies...

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