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Darkstone
Elvenhome
Jul 15 2011, 7:14pm
Post #1 of 5
(898 views)
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The Battle of the Pelennor Fields IV: "She's dead, Jim! Er, wait...."
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Sorry about being late. A little bit of the heat bit me.
And still Meriadoc the hobbit stood there blinking through his tears and no one spoke to him, indeed none seemed to heed him. He brushed away the tears, and stooped to pick up the green shield that Éowyn had given him; and he slung it at his back. Then he looked for his sword that he had let fall; for even as he struck his blow his arm was numbed, and now he could only use his left hand.
Comments of Merry’s deportment after the fight?
BTW, does this strike anyone as a familiar image?
And behold!
There Tolkien goes again!
there lay his weapon, but the blade was smoking like a dry branch that has been thrust in a fire; and as he watched it, it writhed and withered and was consumed.
Why? (Did the dagger say “My work here is done”?)
So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dúnedain were young, and chief among their foes was the dread realm of Angmar and its sorcerer king. No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will.
Comments?
Is this evidence of predestination?
Men now raised the king, and laying cloaks upon spear-truncheons they made shift to bear him away towards the City; and others lifted Éowyn gently up and bore her after him. But the men of the king's household they could not yet bring from the field; for seven of the king's knights had fallen there, and Déorwine their chief was among them. So they laid them apart from their foes and the fell beast and set spears about them. And afterwards when all was over men returned and made a fire there and burned the carcase of the beast; but for Snowmane they dug a grave and set up a stone upon which was carved in the tongues of Gondor and the Mark:
Faithful servant yet master's bane
Lightfoot's foal, swift Snowmane.
Green and long grew the grass on Snowmane's Howe, but ever black and bare was the ground where the beast was burned.
Comments?
Why did they burn it?
Snowman’s body became nutrients for pretty flowers, whereas the beast’s body fat sealed the ground so nothing could grow.
They should have buried the beast too. Or at least roto-tilled the soil after they burned it.
Now slowly and sadly Merry walked beside the bearers, and he gave no more heed to the battle. He was weary and full of pain, and his limbs trembled as with a chill. A great rain came out of the Sea, and it seemed that all things wept for Théoden and Éowyn, quenching the fires in the City with grey tears.
Comments?
Note that it’s not mice that elephants fear, but fire. So the rain can be seen as a bad thing. Was it sent by Sauron so his mumakil wouldn’t panic?
It was through a mist that presently he saw the van of the men of Gondor approaching. Imrahil, Prince of Dol Amroth, rode up and drew rein before them.
'What burden do you bear, Men of Rohan?' he cried.
'Théoden King,' they answered. 'He is dead. But Éomer King now rides in the battle: he with the white crest in the wind.'
Then the prince went from his horse, and knelt by the bier in honour of the king and his great onset; and he wept. And rising he looked then on Éowyn and was amazed. 'Surely, here is a woman?' he said. 'Have even the women of the Rohirrim come to war in our need?'
'Nay! One only,' they answered. 'The Lady Éowyn is she, sister of Éomer; and we knew naught of her riding until this hour, and greatly we rue it.'
Then the prince seeing her beauty, though her face was pale and cold, touched her hand as he bent to look more closely on her. 'Men of Rohan!' he cried. 'Are there no leeches among you? She is hurt to the death maybe, but I deem that she yet lives.' And he held the bright-burnished vambrace that was upon his arm before her cold tips, and behold! a little mist was laid on it hardly to be seen.
'Haste now is needed,' he said, and he sent one riding back swiftly to the City to bring aid.
Comments?
Sent for whom? The Loremaster? Ioreth? You’d think someone of Elf descent would know a little Elvis Medicine. Or at least Elvish.
But he bowing low to the fallen, bade them farewell, and mounting rode away into battle.
Why do the Rohirrim assume Eowyn is dead? Were they just too embarrassed to check her chest for a heartbeat? Or is something else going on? (For example, naughty Roman Hearth Maidens (or Vestal Virgins) were buried alive as a warning to impertinent hearth maidens . Historically Germanic Shield Maidens were just more militant Hearth Maidens. You don’t think….?)
And now the fighting waxed furious on the fields of the Pelennor; and the din of arms rose upon high, with the crying of men and the neighing of horses. Horns were blown and trumpets were braying, and the mûmakil were bellowing as they were goaded to war. Under the south walls of the City the footmen of Gondor now drove against the legions of Morgul that were still gathered there in strength. But the horsemen rode eastward to the succour of Éomer: Húrin the Tall Warden of the Keys, and the Lord of Lossarnach, and Hirluin of the Green Hills, and Prince Imrahil the fair with his knights all about him.
Shouldn’t the Gondor cavalry be kept in support of the infantry’s flanks? Why divide their forces? Better hope the opposing commander doesn’t notice and moe to isolate them from each other.
Not too soon came their aid to the Rohirrim; for fortune had turned against Éomer, and his fury had betrayed him. The great wrath of his onset had utterly overthrown the front of his enemies, and great wedges of his Riders had passed clear through the ranks of the Southrons, discomfiting their horsemen and riding their footmen to ruin. But wherever the mûmakil came there the horses would not go, but blenched and swerved away; and the great monsters were unfought, and stood like towers of defence, and the Haradrim rallied about them.
Is Eomer making the same mistake as Theoden? (Then again, cavalry is going to get dispersed in a battle, that's just the way it is.)
How could Eomer have missed the Mumakil?
(BTW, usually there was on elephant rider detailed to sit at the back of its neck with a hammer and long stake, to drive the stake into its brain in case it ran amok.)
And if the Rohirrim at their onset were thrice outnumbered by the Haradrim alone, soon their case became worse; for new strength came now streaming to the field out of Osgiliath. There they had been mustered for the sack of the City and the rape of Gondor, waiting on the call of their Captain. He now was destroyed; but Gothmog the lieutenant of Morgul had flung them into the fray; Easterlings with axes, and Variags of Khand. Southrons in scarlet, and out of Far Harad black men like half-trolls with white eyes and red tongues.
Gothmog has finally committed the forces WiKi held in reserve. He seems to think he has this battle sewn up. But he better hope there are no further surprises.
Comments on the different Men?
Some now hastened up behind the Rohirrim, others held westward to hold off the forces of Gondor and prevent their joining with Rohan.
Divide and defeat in detail was a favorite tactic of Napoleon.
Comments on the battle tactics of both sides up to now? Who’s been smarter?
One of Napoleon's maxims was: Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
What mistakes have both sides made?
Extra credit:
The Battle of Maldon is an Old English poem about the defeat of an English army by the Vikings in 991. Tolkien wrote some fanfic about the battle, The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth Beorhthelm's Son.
Here are a couple of lines from the orignal poem, spoken as the English defend their leige’s body on the battlefield though all is obviously lost:
Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre,
mod sceal þe mare þe ure maegen lytlað.
(Will shall be the sterner, heart the bolder,
spirit the greater, as our strength lessens.)
How do these lines relate to the Battle of the Pelennor Fields?
How do they relate to the Ringquest?
Is the Battle of the Pelennor a mirror of the Ringquest?
Next: One man's catastrophe is another's eucatastrope.
******************************************
Brothers, sisters,
I was Elf once.
We danced together
Under the Two Trees.
We sang as the soft gold of Laurelin
And the bright silver of Telperion,
Brought forth the dawn of the world.
Then I was taken.
Brothers, sisters,
In my torment I kept faith,
And I waited.
But you never came.
And when I returned you drew sword,
And when I called your names you drew bow.
Was my Eldar beauty all,
And my soul nothing?
So be it.
I will return your hatred,
And I am hungry.
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Finding Frodo
Dor-Lomin
Jul 16 2011, 2:42am
Post #2 of 5
(803 views)
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Now slowly and sadly Merry walked beside the bearers, and he gave no more heed to the battle. He was weary and full of pain, and his limbs trembled as with a chill. A great rain came out of the Sea, and it seemed that all things wept for Théoden and Éowyn, quenching the fires in the City with grey tears.
Comments?
Note that it’s not mice that elephants fear, but fire. So the rain can be seen as a bad thing. Was it sent by Sauron so his mumakil wouldn’t panic?
I'm not sure that I ever noticed the rain in this chapter before. Anyway, the rain quenching the fire in the city seems more beneficial than problematic for our side even if it makes the mumakil more comfortable. Also, I'm not sure that Sauron could send rain out of the sea. A nasty storm, sure, but this sounds more the the tears of Nienna.
Stay cool, Darkstone!
Where's Frodo?
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CuriousG
Gondolin
Jul 17 2011, 12:56am
Post #3 of 5
(800 views)
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You actually missed another "lo!," but now I can't find it
[In reply to]
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And still Meriadoc the hobbit stood there blinking through his tears and no one spoke to him, indeed none seemed to heed him. He brushed away the tears, and stooped to pick up the green shield that Éowyn had given him; and he slung it at his back. Then he looked for his sword that he had let fall; for even as he struck his blow his arm was numbed, and now he could only use his left hand.
Comments of Merry’s deportment after the fight? What strikes me is how soldier-like he is. Slinging his shield on his back, looking for a sword. What about the dominant hobbit concerns of asking where lunch is, and if there will be tea and cakes?
there lay his weapon, but the blade was smoking like a dry branch that has been thrust in a fire; and as he watched it, it writhed and withered and was consumed.
Why? (Did the dagger say “My work here is done”?) One wonders. If it was hexed with enough magic to kill the WiKi, why wouldn't it survive its mission?
So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dúnedain were young, and chief among their foes was the dread realm of Angmar and its sorcerer king. No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will.
Comments?
Is this evidence of predestination? Yes. I always wonder just who made it, what his name, how he made it, etc.
Green and long grew the grass on Snowmane's Howe, but ever black and bare was the ground where the beast was burned.
Comments?
Why did they burn it? I think you burn anything smelly and nasty and evil.
Snowman’s body became nutrients for pretty flowers, whereas the beast’s body fat sealed the ground so nothing could grow.
They should have buried the beast too. Or at least roto-tilled the soil after they burned it. Just evidence that it had Round-up in its veins instead of blood.
Now slowly and sadly Merry walked beside the bearers, and he gave no more heed to the battle. He was weary and full of pain, and his limbs trembled as with a chill. A great rain came out of the Sea, and it seemed that all things wept for Théoden and Éowyn, quenching the fires in the City with grey tears.
Comments?
Note that it’s not mice that elephants fear, but fire. So the rain can be seen as a bad thing. Was it sent by Sauron so his mumakil wouldn’t panic? I think it's more important to extinguish the burning city than worry about elephants. The rain could also be seen as washing away the awful events of the day, or washing away the stain from Sauron's forces on Gondor's land, or a lament from the sky for the fallen. Or, it was just a blustery day, take your pick. I doubt Sauron had anything to do with it since he couldn't stop the wind from blowing the fumes of his sky-camouflage back towards him.
But he bowing low to the fallen, bade them farewell, and mounting rode away into battle.
Why do the Rohirrim assume Eowyn is dead? Were they just too embarrassed to check her chest for a heartbeat? Or is something else going on? (For example, naughty Roman Hearth Maidens (or Vestal Virgins) were buried alive as a warning to impertinent hearth maidens . Historically Germanic Shield Maidens were just more militant Hearth Maidens. You don’t think….?) Apparently in the Middle Ages people could seem dead, so they would be buried, and if they later woke up alive and buried, they'd ring a bell for people to come dig them out. Or maybe that's just a myth. Anyway, Gondorians are smarter than Rohirrim, so Imrahil figures out she's alive because he's smarter.
And now the fighting waxed furious on the fields of the Pelennor; and the din of arms rose upon high, with the crying of men and the neighing of horses. Horns were blown and trumpets were braying, and the mûmakil were bellowing as they were goaded to war. Under the south walls of the City the footmen of Gondor now drove against the legions of Morgul that were still gathered there in strength. But the horsemen rode eastward to the succour of Éomer: Húrin the Tall Warden of the Keys, and the Lord of Lossarnach, and Hirluin of the Green Hills, and Prince Imrahil the fair with his knights all about him.
Shouldn’t the Gondor cavalry be kept in support of the infantry’s flanks? Why divide their forces? Better hope the opposing commander doesn’t notice and moe to isolate them from each other. I agree. Thought if Rohan is surrounded and doomed to be slaughtered, better take the risk and rescue them.
Not too soon came their aid to the Rohirrim; for fortune had turned against Éomer, and his fury had betrayed him. The great wrath of his onset had utterly overthrown the front of his enemies, and great wedges of his Riders had passed clear through the ranks of the Southrons, discomfiting their horsemen and riding their footmen to ruin. But wherever the mûmakil came there the horses would not go, but blenched and swerved away; and the great monsters were unfought, and stood like towers of defence, and the Haradrim rallied about them.
Is Eomer making the same mistake as Theoden? (Then again, cavalry is going to get dispersed in a battle, that's just the way it is.)
Yes, he is.
And if the Rohirrim at their onset were thrice outnumbered by the Haradrim alone, soon their case became worse; for new strength came now streaming to the field out of Osgiliath. There they had been mustered for the sack of the City and the rape of Gondor, waiting on the call of their Captain. He now was destroyed; but Gothmog the lieutenant of Morgul had flung them into the fray; Easterlings with axes, and Variags of Khand. Southrons in scarlet, and out of Far Harad black men like half-trolls with white eyes and red tongues.
Gothmog has finally committed the forces WiKi held in reserve. He seems to think he has this battle sewn up. But he better hope there are no further surprises.
Comments on the different Men? This group of Men sound as bad as orcs, so I'm assuming they would have been just as joyously effective at raping and pillaging as the orcs would be.
Some now hastened up behind the Rohirrim, others held westward to hold off the forces of Gondor and prevent their joining with Rohan.
Divide and defeat in detail was a favorite tactic of Napoleon.
Comments on the battle tactics of both sides up to now? Who’s been smarter? I vote for the bad guys.
One of Napoleon's maxims was: Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
What mistakes have both sides made?
Oh, so many.
Sauron:
1. Tearing down the Rammas wall. He didn't have to, and it enabled the Rohirrim to ride gleefully across the plain to slaughter his troops.
2. Not stationing any troops on the north side of the field just in case Rohan showed up.
3. Not using his own palantir to keep tabs on things, hence not knowing Aragorn took control of his fleet. (Or blame the Nazgul; they could have been doing aerial recon but weren't.)
Good guys:
1. Leaving Denethor in charge.
2. Not having air support to prevent Nazgul attacks on the King of Rohan.
3. Driving through the enemy lines so far that you've left yourself outflanked.
4. Not mounting a more spirited defense against Grond.
5. Doing nothing to coordinate the attacks of Rohan and Gondor. Couldn't Theoden have directed his attack toward the Gate, instead of killing willy-nilly in the field, so that he could join up with Gondor's forces?
It's so easy to criticize from afar, however.
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FarFromHome
Doriath
Jul 18 2011, 12:16pm
Post #4 of 5
(709 views)
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Sorry about being late. A little bit of the heat bit me. Sorry to hear that. Hope you're better, and that you can stay out of the sun for a bit!
Comments of Merry’s deportment after the fight?
BTW, does this strike anyone as a familiar image? It feels realistic - obviously I've never been in any such situation, but I can imagine that you do feel alone at first like this, and try to pull yourself together. Since we only ever get inside the heads of hobbits, they are the only ones whose similar impressions might be recorded. I think Bilbo, Frodo and Sam all have sort-of similar moments.
And behold!
There Tolkien goes again! I think it's just Tolkien-speak for OMG... 
there lay his weapon, but the blade was smoking like a dry branch that has been thrust in a fire; and as he watched it, it writhed and withered and was consumed.
Why? (Did the dagger say “My work here is done”?) "This was the stroke of Frodo’s sword," [Aragorn] said. "The only hurt that it did to his enemy, I fear; for it is unharmed, but all blades perish that pierce that dreadful King." (Flight to the Ford)
(Note that Frodo's sword was the twin [or quadruplet?] of Merry's.)
No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will.
Comments? Well there are at least two swords still extant that could have dealt a wound equally bitter - plus Frodo's now-broken one. This is the only one on the battlefield, though - although one is in Minas Tirith. Should Gandalf have borrowed it from Pippin?
Is this evidence of predestination?
Either that or of the common tendency to find reasons to justify unexplained happenings after the event.
Green and long grew the grass on Snowmane's Howe, but ever black and bare was the ground where the beast was burned.
Why did they burn it? They burn orcs, so even more so they'd want to burn that fearsome beast.
Snowman’s body became nutrients for pretty flowers, whereas the beast’s body fat sealed the ground so nothing could grow. Never thought of that - so the choice of burning automatically brings with it the apparently supernatural barrenness of the ground where it happens!
Note that it’s not mice that elephants fear, but fire. So the rain can be seen as a bad thing. Was it sent by Sauron so his mumakil wouldn’t panic? Well, the rain is coming up from the sea, on the wind that is also bringing Aragorn. And we've been assuming that the wind was not Sauron's doing. (In fact, the whole weather scenario seems actually quite meteorologically accurate - first the heavy darkness, finally shattered by a flash of lightning, then rain. This could all be no more than a severe collision of two natural weather fronts. Or of course, it could be Sauron and/or the Valar. Who can tell?)
Sent for whom? The Loremaster? Ioreth? You’d think someone of Elf descent would know a little Elvis Medicine. Or at least Elvish. I don't recall Elvish (or even Elvis) medicine being in the book, as such. It's Elrond specifically who is skilled in healing, and now of course the real healer we're waiting for is Aragorn. But his is of a very special kind relating to his Kingship, and not something he learned from the Elves.
Why do the Rohirrim assume Eowyn is dead? Were they just too embarrassed to check her chest for a heartbeat? Or is something else going on? (For example, naughty Roman Hearth Maidens (or Vestal Virgins) were buried alive as a warning to impertinent hearth maidens . Historically Germanic Shield Maidens were just more militant Hearth Maidens. You don’t think….?) I am guessing that they normally didn't bother checking men who had fallen until after the battle was over, so they didn't think of checking Eowyn either. This little episode always reminds me of Snow White, and I think there's a kind of fairytale, semi-magical thing going on here. It's the prince "seeing her beauty" that makes him approach and perhaps it's his Elvishness that allows him to realise that she's not dead.
I don't see anything here to suggest that the Rohirrim wanted Eowyn to be dead - however, I do think they're far more interested in avenging her than in checking whether they have anything to avenge...
Shouldn’t the Gondor cavalry be kept in support of the infantry’s flanks? Why divide their forces? I get the impression that Eomer, once he believes Eowyn is dead, sets of with renewed fury and cuts a great swathe through the enemy forces. So perhaps the rest of the cavalry thought this was their chance to make a great breakthrough once and for all.
Is Eomer making the same mistake as Theoden? (Then again, cavalry is going to get dispersed in a battle, that's just the way it is.) Yes, I believe he is. It was seeing Eowyn on the battlefield that set him off:
"Éowyn, Éowyn!" he cried at last. "Éowyn, how come you here? What madness or devilry is this? Death, death, death! Death take us all!"
Then without taking counsel or waiting for the approach of the men of the City, he spurred headlong back to the front of the great host, and blew a horn, and cried aloud for the onset....and gathering speed like a great tide their battle swept about their fallen king and passed, roaring away southwards.
Eomer is now in the same "fey mood" that betrayed Theoden earlier.
How could Eomer have missed the Mumakil? There's lots of dust, noise and confusion. The Mumakil are coming from the rear. Or that's how I would explain it now that I've seen the movie. It convinces me there, that's for sure.
(BTW, usually there was on elephant rider detailed to sit at the back of its neck with a hammer and long stake, to drive the stake into its brain in case it ran amok.) Sounds like a good idea if you don't have an acrobatic Elf with you. 
Gothmog has finally committed the forces WiKi held in reserve. He seems to think he has this battle sewn up. But he better hope there are no further surprises. Or maybe he's panicking now his captain has been destroyed. He'd never have imagined that could happen.
Comments on the different Men? This seems to be what the Rohirrim notice - the obvious visible and intimidating differences between these strange, outlandish Men and themselves.
Divide and defeat in detail was a favorite tactic of Napoleon.
Comments on the battle tactics of both sides up to now? Who’s been smarter?
One of Napoleon's maxims was: Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
What mistakes have both sides made?
Well I'm not sure we're dealing with Napoleonic-level tactics here on either side. But I haven't a clue about tactics really, so what do I know? It feels to me as if the Enemy is using mostly brute force and sheer overwhelming numbers, while the Rohirrim have no strategy that actually includes winning - they're just trying to do as much damage as they can, while they can.
Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre,
mod sceal þe mare þe ure maegen lytlað.
(Will shall be the sterner, heart the bolder,
spirit the greater, as our strength lessens.)
How do these lines relate to the Battle of the Pelennor Fields?
How do they relate to the Ringquest?
Is the Battle of the Pelennor a mirror of the Ringquest? Thanks for the quote. I think Shippey uses it too, to explain the Anglo-Saxon philosophy. This is what it's all about - not about winning, still less about surviving to fight another day. It's about fighting with all your strength, to the very end, even when all hope is gone.
I think Tolkien would make a distinction between this "stern" philosophy of the pre-Christian Anglo-Saxons, and the new hope promised by Christianity. But the two are still bound together, since divine grace can never be counted on, so it's still necessary to go on to the bitter end without any certainty of success. Yet Christianity brings with it that possibility of grace, and reward for one's courage.
I think the Battle of the Pelennor is a little more "pre-Christian" than the Ring-quest - although the arrival of Aragorn with his glittering banner seems to come out of the later philosophy.
They went in, and Sam shut the door.
But even as he did so, he heard suddenly,
deep and unstilled,
the sigh and murmur of the Sea upon the shores of Middle-earth.
From the unpublished Epilogue to the Lord of the Rings
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sador
Gondolin
Jul 21 2011, 12:44pm
Post #5 of 5
(705 views)
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Comments of Merry’s deportment after the fight?
I would expect that by now he's used to nobody speaking to him or heeding him.
BTW, does this strike anyone as a familiar image?
Brushing away the tears and slugging on - Aragorn after Moria.
Using only the left hand - Maedhros.
But you probably meant Frodo after Weathertop.
There Tolkien goes again!
You'll get used to it, after a few more readings.
Why?
To quote Aragorn, "all blades perish that pierce that dreadful King."
Did the dagger say “My work here is done”?
I thought Gurthang was the only blade who could talk, but I might be wrong.
Comments?
"Mightier hands"? meh.
Why can't Tolkien invoke "the hand of Beren or of Túrin" again?
Is this evidence of predestination?
Eru walks in mysterious ways.
Comments?
Poor Lightfoot!
Why did they burn it?
It tasted awful.
Snowman’s body became nutrients for pretty flowers, whereas the beast’s body fat sealed the ground so nothing could grow.
Compare to Deut. 21:4.
They should have buried the beast too. Or at least roto-tilled the soil after they burned it.
Practical as usual!
Comments?
Several years ago, the day an election, the skies grew clouded and rain poured down.
My sister, who supported the losing candidate, commented: "even the heavens cry for the result". Walking into town, I met someone who proclaimed: "Let the heavens rejoice, and let the Earth be glad!" (Ps. 96:11)
Note that it’s not mice that elephants fear, but fire. So the rain can be seen as a bad thing. Was it sent by Sauron so his mumakil wouldn’t panic?
Did he provide them with towels?
Comments?
I'm surprised the Prince was willing to stain a burnished vambrace for her. Apparantly her beauty was very great.
Sent for whom?
Gandalf.
The Loremaster?
Him too.
Ioreth?
I doubt he really knows her. Or even wants to.
You’d think someone of Elf descent would know a little Elvis Medicine. Or at least Elvish.
Nobody knew of Elvish medicine before Jackson.
Why do the Rohirrim assume Eowyn is dead?
She sure looks the part.
Were they just too embarrassed to check her chest for a heartbeat?
At least while her brother is around.
Or is something else going on? (For example, naughty Roman Hearth Maidens (or Vestal Virgins) were buried alive as a warning to impertinent hearth maidens . Historically Germanic Shield Maidens were just more militant Hearth Maidens. You don’t think….?)
No, I really don't.
Shouldn’t the Gondor cavalry be kept in support of the infantry’s flanks? Why divide their forces? Better hope the opposing commander doesn’t notice and moe to isolate them from each other.
Why do you think this is not what's happening?
Is Eomer making the same mistake as Theoden? (Then again, cavalry is going to get dispersed in a battle, that's just the way it is.)
Mistake? It's just a cavalry thing.
How could Eomer have missed the Mumakil?
Give me a shotgun and ten cartridges, and I'll miss them each time.
BTW, usually there was on elephant rider detailed to sit at the back of its neck with a hammer and long stake, to drive the stake into its brain in case it ran amok.
In Ithilien it didn't work. Maybe the said rider was shot first?
Comments on the different Men?
Those from the Far Harad sure sound cool.
Some now hastened up behind the Rohirrim, others held westward to hold off the forces of Gondor and prevent their joining with Rohan.
Comments on the battle tactics of both sides up to now? Who’s been smarter?
Gandalf was wise. Which is why he discreetly made himself invaluable in the Houses of Healing.
One of Napoleon's maxims was: Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
One of my teachers used to do that. I hated her!
What mistakes have both sides made?
Leaving the Forannest and Harlond undefended.
How do these lines relate to the Battle of the Pelennor Fields?
They are fey, and heathen.
How do they relate to the Ringquest?
The attributes of lembas sound suspiciously similar.
Is the Battle of the Pelennor a mirror of the Ringquest?
Like a burnished vambrace.
"Random connection, probably not deliberately related, but possibly relevant: within the same 24 hours that this chapter occurs, Sam in the Tower invokes Elbereth as “palan-diriel,” “gazing afar”."
- Menelwyn
The weekly discussion of The Lord of the Rings is back. Join us in the Reading Room for The Pyre of Denethor!
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