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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Fili and Kili
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adu
Bree

Jul 13 2011, 10:12pm

Post #526 of 601 (11218 views)
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Great point. [In reply to] Can't Post

 


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 10:51pm

Post #527 of 601 (11262 views)
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The infection is spreading... [In reply to] Can't Post

Laugh


sphdle1
Gondor


Jul 14 2011, 1:14am

Post #528 of 601 (11150 views)
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A mental view of Middle-Earth is... [In reply to] Can't Post

Completely mental! Laugh

sphdle1

"You shall not pass!"


sphdle1
Gondor


Jul 14 2011, 1:17am

Post #529 of 601 (11162 views)
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Good for you Kangi [In reply to] Can't Post

keep up the positive outlook!

sphdle1

"You shall not pass!"


sphdle1
Gondor


Jul 14 2011, 1:18am

Post #530 of 601 (11083 views)
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Wow this thing's on fire ... gonna be some kinda record me thinks!? :-) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

sphdle1

"You shall not pass!"


taekotemple
Grey Havens


Jul 14 2011, 2:09am

Post #531 of 601 (11161 views)
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Well, I'm a woman and I'm a crappy liar. [In reply to] Can't Post

It's always obvious when I lie, because I was raised to be honest by a very honest woman. And that's even with me having a theater background. For some reason, I could play a character, but I can't play a lie. I think I may have that same psychological block as you do. Wink And if I went from my experience, I've been lied to more panifully and dramatically by some men than women. And those lies did a great deal more harm to me than any lie a woman has told me.

Now, part of the problem could be what is interpreted as a lie. Women do tend to put a lot more nuance behind their words, so they can be saying something, and it's true, but it has an underlying meaning that isn't being said, but implied. That isn't necessarily a lie. It's just a more complex meaning behind a statement. To understand this better, there's a book called "Odd Girl Out." It's a great book in understanding not only how young girls bully each other, but how girls and women develop communication styles which are very different from the way men usually communicate, which can be more straightforward.

So ultimately, I think it's best to be careful about generalizations. And nobody likes to be accused of lying, so it can come across as offensive, especially if you're someone like me who is likely just as bad a liar as you are.

Wow, I'm really using my psych degree today in this thread!


taekotemple
Grey Havens


Jul 14 2011, 2:36am

Post #532 of 601 (11190 views)
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Ha! I was thinking that too! [In reply to] Can't Post

I wonder what the record is here for how many responses are posted to a thread topic?


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 14 2011, 2:48am

Post #533 of 601 (11116 views)
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True [In reply to] Can't Post

ETA: Have we gotten a higher res version of the Fili and Kili picture yet?



It's often the case, in my experience, that women sometimes know when another woman isn't being entirely truthful and men won't catch it. That would seem to say that it isn't that women lie better, just that sometimes men don't necessarily pick up on the same cues women do which gives the lie away.

IIRC there have been studies showing that women tend to pick up non-verbal cues more accurately, even in still photographs(such as body language, facial expressions, and for the verbal things like subtle changes in tones of voice) then men do. This is probably behind the idea of "women's intuition", it's not really some magical thing, but something very "real" that women just tend to be better at picking up(and there are always exceptions)--we're gathering information from more aspects of the situation sometimes, I guess, often on a subconscious level.

I guess it could be one advantage to having a less compartmentalized brain(I don't know I'm just assuming, I remember hearing that there are more connections between various parts of womens brains then mens, that's why women can sometimes recover somewhat better from strokes), it comes in handy sometimes being more compartmentalized, but sometimes it can be more helpful to have the various bits of the brain interacting more freely.

Which is also why we sometimes can think a guy is really hot and still be using our reason to judge other aspects at the same time. ;) Mental multi-tasking can have it's advantages. LOL


In Reply To
It's always obvious when I lie, because I was raised to be honest by a very honest woman. And that's even with me having a theater background. For some reason, I could play a character, but I can't play a lie. I think I may have that same psychological block as you do. Wink And if I went from my experience, I've been lied to more panifully and dramatically by some men than women. And those lies did a great deal more harm to me than any lie a woman has told me.

Now, part of the problem could be what is interpreted as a lie. Women do tend to put a lot more nuance behind their words, so they can be saying something, and it's true, but it has an underlying meaning that isn't being said, but implied. That isn't necessarily a lie. It's just a more complex meaning behind a statement. To understand this better, there's a book called "Odd Girl Out." It's a great book in understanding not only how young girls bully each other, but how girls and women develop communication styles which are very different from the way men usually communicate, which can be more straightforward.

So ultimately, I think it's best to be careful about generalizations. And nobody likes to be accused of lying, so it can come across as offensive, especially if you're someone like me who is likely just as bad a liar as you are.

Wow, I'm really using my psych degree today in this thread!



(This post was edited by marillaraina on Jul 14 2011, 2:50am)


Sunflower
Valinor

Jul 14 2011, 4:08am

Post #534 of 601 (11071 views)
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WOW (Munches popcorn) [In reply to] Can't Post

How about if Peter does something that is closer to Tolkien but departs from his film/ LOTR concept of ME? Then you'd have a Film Purist upset at him for being a Book Purist. It is possible. The mind reels.Tongue

I'm sorry, this is just too darned entertaining. Our first genuine Hobbit Controversy! This hearkens back to the glory days of the First Age pre-FOTR and I missed all that. And yes, the poster who said that this is nothing, wait until we get overrun by "Real Fans" is right on the money. Thank God, we Tolkien fans have something to lok forward to when the Hogwarts Express pulls away and we, like Harrry, wil have to wave goodbye.
(That's where I'm going to be tomorrow night...and yes Ithink I may bring tissues.)

You know this is good when it successfully pulls you out of the Potterverse for a few hours, where they are writing near-universal rave reviews taht aren't just (respectful goodbye to the Franchise" reviews, but "It's a great movie on its own" reviews, and many top critics are openly calling for a HP Best Picture nomination...and Alan Rickman for an Oscar. (I kid you not--Peter Travers of Rolling Stone and Roeper among them.)

It's a great week for the loverd of fantasy...as one reviewer for FOTR said, "Let us at last praise the colonizers of dreams."


little mouse
Rivendell

Jul 14 2011, 12:05pm

Post #535 of 601 (11030 views)
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em, no [In reply to] Can't Post

is Thorin described as fat?


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 14 2011, 12:14pm

Post #536 of 601 (11068 views)
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It's not about what Tolkien DIDN'T say... [In reply to] Can't Post

He stated that dwarves are stocky, so it becomes unnecessary to describe individual dwarves as such. If Throin were thin then it WOULD be necessary to state that fact, because it would conflict with a previous description.

Because Tolkien didn't describe him as thin it PURPOSELY implies that he is of the same build as other dwarves... Had there been any thin or beardless dwarves, Tolkien would have mentioned it.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 14 2011, 1:51pm

Post #537 of 601 (10902 views)
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I know, right? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 14 2011, 1:53pm

Post #538 of 601 (11012 views)
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Seriously though [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd actually be more comfortable with Kili's appearance if the writers made him the illegitimate offspring of a Dwarf and an Elf. Maybe they could make a decent running joke out of it. I'd definitely be able to accept him as Fili's Elvish half-brother.


GhostofMacbeth
Bree

Jul 14 2011, 1:58pm

Post #539 of 601 (11026 views)
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Not liking Kili either [In reply to] Can't Post

I am in agreement. He didn't say anything about them being thin. The general framework would have to fit. Fili is fine to me as a young dwarf, Kili really isn't. I just have to add my opinion to the masses that really am not liking the beardless pretty dwarf. They have plenty of opportunity to have some eye candy in the elves and other characters. They don't need to simplify one of the main ones to the point that he has no makeup just to appeal to a certain demographic. It just looks out of place in something that has always been very unified.

I am not totally digging the starfish hair either, it sort of looks more like something out of Warhammer or Warcraft than Tolkien but that is a lot better than prettymandwarf here.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 14 2011, 2:59pm

Post #540 of 601 (11051 views)
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I don't know Flagg [In reply to] Can't Post

I think that would be bending the rules a bit too much. But as a part of "The Ugly Dwarf Gag" the accusation could be hilarious.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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Oleander Took
Rivendell


Jul 14 2011, 4:12pm

Post #541 of 601 (10925 views)
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High Res Version [In reply to] Can't Post

You can see it here http://i202.photobucket.com/.../Hobbit/6faa2446.jpg


Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Jul 14 2011, 4:14pm

Post #542 of 601 (10912 views)
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You're my hero! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

My LiveJournal
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TORn's Costume Discussions Archive


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 14 2011, 4:17pm

Post #543 of 601 (10954 views)
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If it's any consolation, I was only being half-serious. [In reply to] Can't Post

But I do believe than an Elf/Dwarf hybrid would make sense within the framework established by Tolkien.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 14 2011, 4:28pm

Post #544 of 601 (10995 views)
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I would say it might be possible but not probable. [In reply to] Can't Post

Dwarves were beings created by a lesser God.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 14 2011, 4:41pm

Post #545 of 601 (10832 views)
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So very true! [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Now there are not only Book Purists, but Film Purists


The good news is that people soften over time. I remember the outcry of some when FOTR came out: it's not like the book, why did they ruin the book, etc., and most of those same people now lovingly call it their favorite of the three films. Crazy

Luckily, we're already seeing softening of most people's attitudes even since the release of the first pics of the dwarves.
Time is on our side.


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



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Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 14 2011, 4:43pm

Post #546 of 601 (10985 views)
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Kili has a blue hood! [In reply to] Can't Post

As described in the book! Cheers for the high-res!

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 14 2011, 4:46pm

Post #547 of 601 (11022 views)
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That's because... [In reply to] Can't Post



The good news is that people soften over time. I remember the outcry of some when FOTR came out: it's not like the book, why did they ruin the book, etc., and most of those same people now lovingly call it their favorite of the three films. Crazy




That's because the other two were even less like the book. Tongue



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 14 2011, 4:48pm

Post #548 of 601 (10968 views)
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Whoa! [In reply to] Can't Post

That's so huge that, even tiled, it's too big for the background on my widescreen monitor... Shocked



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 14 2011, 4:48pm

Post #549 of 601 (10915 views)
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Stocky is as stocky does... [In reply to] Can't Post

Stocky does not mean fat, though it can. I can think of one actor who is naturally, left to his own devices, rather stocky(but he wasn't fat by any means, he was athletic, even ran a marathon in a little more than 3 hours), but he got a role that called for a really hard bodied, 3% body fat type look look and he worked out a lot and probably gave up some of the carbs and such and hot damn, the man was like an Adonis, a somewhat short Adonis being only about 5 ft 8, but what a lovely little package of god-like gorgeousness. LOL But in any case, he was, normally, what you'd call stocky before that and yet he was not what you'd have called fat, aside from the baby fat in his face when younger.

So anyway, I'm just saying stocky does not necessarily mean fat or even particularly chubby. It's more about the bone structure and proportions. The old excuse "I'm not fat, I'm just big boned" is actually sort of true in the case of some stocky people. :D


In Reply To
He stated that dwarves are stocky, so it becomes unnecessary to describe individual dwarves as such. If Throin were thin then it WOULD be necessary to state that fact, because it would conflict with a previous description.

Because Tolkien didn't describe him as thin it PURPOSELY implies that he is of the same build as other dwarves... Had there been any thin or beardless dwarves, Tolkien would have mentioned it.



RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 14 2011, 4:51pm

Post #550 of 601 (10958 views)
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I could live with it as a joke. [In reply to] Can't Post

It would be very funny to have the other dwarves jibing Kili about being so "pretty."

But I don't know if I could swallow the idea of it being an actuality. I haven't studied the matter to know Tolkien's views, but somehow I've gotten the impression that the Dwarves are an entirely separate kind of being and that they are physically incompatible with the other races.



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)

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