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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Fili and Kili
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Darkstone
Immortal


Jul 13 2011, 7:19pm

Post #501 of 601 (10019 views)
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You've put your finger.... [In reply to] Can't Post

...on why this time around fan criticism of The Hobbit will be twice as toxic as before:

But all this time I've felt people are really less butthurt that the Dwarves are "different than in the books" than they're butthurt about them being "diffefrent than in LotR movies"

Now there are not only Book Purists, but Film Purists.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

******************************************
Brothers, sisters,
I was Elf once.
We danced together
Under the Two Trees.
We sang as the soft gold of Laurelin
And the bright silver of Telperion,
Brought forth the dawn of the world.
Then I was taken.

Brothers, sisters,
In my torment I kept faith,
And I waited.
But you never came.
And when I returned you drew sword,
And when I called your names you drew bow.
Was my Eldar beauty all,
And my soul nothing?

So be it.
I will return your hatred,
And I am hungry.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 7:23pm

Post #502 of 601 (9953 views)
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Tauriel's love interest? [In reply to] Can't Post

You are assuming that Tauriel will have a love interest. All we know about Tauriel is who is playing the part.


Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Jul 13 2011, 7:24pm)


carrioncrow
Lorien

Jul 13 2011, 7:30pm

Post #503 of 601 (9904 views)
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what i see... [In reply to] Can't Post

Are two cocky "greenhorns".
The world hasn't left its mark on these two, but things are about to change.


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 13 2011, 7:37pm

Post #504 of 601 (9881 views)
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Yeah [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
At least, he hasn't had gone short and dumpy yet, but I thought most of his LOTR elves were decidedly "Homely."


I don't think most of his elves were actually particularly beautiful. Heck IMO that's why Figwit stood out, he was actually kind of hot(not that I had any idea about this Figwit thing at the time but I do remember watching the movie and being like "Hey he's kind of cute" during his little scene--still a little horsey though:)).

Most of the Elves IMO ranged from bland to downright homely(in the US English sense meaning plain/ugly--I believe in some other English speaking countries it actually means simply attractive--maybe what we in the US might refer to as "all American" in looks, a nice fresh natural look). I think the only one who really came close was maybe Cate Blanchett, she's not really someone I'd normally consider all that hot but somehow she worked as an Elf. It may have been that at least she didn't have an excessively and/or bony long face. :)

But you know, it didn't ruin the movie for me, I don't even really think about it except that it just happened to come up here today. :)


Lindele
Gondor


Jul 13 2011, 7:38pm

Post #505 of 601 (9908 views)
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wow [In reply to] Can't Post

 


carrioncrow
Lorien

Jul 13 2011, 7:42pm

Post #506 of 601 (9988 views)
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A concern [In reply to] Can't Post

If the youngest dwarves are the least "calcified" and therefore the least encumbered by facial prosthetics, then what of Balin?

He is one of the oldest dwarves and is being played by one of the older actors. Balin is a significant character, deeply entwined in many of the emotional threads of the story and the film franchise. His portrayal and his interaction with Bilbo and Thorin are extremely important.

I long thought if they get Balin right, then the battle is half won for me.

But am I to now assume Ken Stott is going to have to accomplish all of this while suffering deep beneath "Pizza the Hutt" prosthetics?


(This post was edited by carrioncrow on Jul 13 2011, 7:44pm)


Patty
Immortal


Jul 13 2011, 7:45pm

Post #507 of 601 (10028 views)
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Film purists. [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah,k I think that's my problem.Angelic

Permanent address: Into the West





Lindele
Gondor


Jul 13 2011, 7:49pm

Post #508 of 601 (9961 views)
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why fix it if it's not broken? [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Patty
Immortal


Jul 13 2011, 7:53pm

Post #509 of 601 (9870 views)
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I agree. [In reply to] Can't Post

That which was established in LotR film is basically what I wanted to see. Whatever hadn't already been visualized (new territory) is fair game.

Permanent address: Into the West





Darkstone
Immortal


Jul 13 2011, 7:54pm

Post #510 of 601 (9925 views)
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Wow! It's deja vu all over again! [In reply to] Can't Post

That's exactly what the Book Purists said during the filming of LOTR!

*Play Twilight Zone music*

******************************************
Brothers, sisters,
I was Elf once.
We danced together
Under the Two Trees.
We sang as the soft gold of Laurelin
And the bright silver of Telperion,
Brought forth the dawn of the world.
Then I was taken.

Brothers, sisters,
In my torment I kept faith,
And I waited.
But you never came.
And when I returned you drew sword,
And when I called your names you drew bow.
Was my Eldar beauty all,
And my soul nothing?

So be it.
I will return your hatred,
And I am hungry.


tolkiennerd
Lorien


Jul 13 2011, 7:54pm

Post #511 of 601 (9939 views)
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hmm.. [In reply to] Can't Post

The one with the black hair Kili? looks like a human I thought I was seeing Bard before I read it. the other one looks like a young dwarf.


Elfhelm
The Shire

Jul 13 2011, 7:55pm

Post #512 of 601 (9982 views)
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Hmm. I believe they'll look good in the films, and actually fit right in... [In reply to] Can't Post

...as the two distinctive young rascals in our merry little band of dwarves. Kind of a strange promo pic, though... I mean the first dwarf photo that was released seemed like it was even doctored/scaled to make the actors' build more compact and dwarvish, but this one is completely the opposite, nothing really suggests it's dwarves we're looking at. If I didn't know any better I'd say it's just two human medieval/fantasy warriors. However, I can imagine this look working just fine in the films, they'll probably appear just as dwarvish as the rest yet easily distinguishable. It all comes down to the script and their acting. And I like it that they're not buried under (unnecessarily) heavy prosthetics.

As someone mentioned the arrows do look unrealistic, Kili's going to need a ballista rather than a tiny shortbow for those! So I'm starting to get a little worried about these props, I do hope they'll not forgo realism for the weapons and such and just go for a "cool look", as I think in the second production video we saw a short bit of Richard Taylor playing with a composite bow, which in practice with its limp string seemed more like a toy than a real bow with which you could actually shoot (I'll have to review that video and look closer).

Fili's dual-wielded swords seem nifty and promise some wicked swordplay from him (as evidenced by the first production video where we saw a dual-wielding Rob Kazinsky practicing fight choreography against multiple opponents).

Finally, I kind of like the idea mentioned earlier that these two young dwarves with their almost non-existent beards are actually the "ugly" ones in dwarven culture and might even have to suffer some good-humored teasing for it by their older companions.Sly


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 7:55pm

Post #513 of 601 (9884 views)
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Hate to say it but this little funny has been done to death [In reply to] Can't Post

and that is only on this thread. Kili is an ugly male dwarf, but what he lacks in looks he more than makes up in spunk.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Jul 13 2011, 7:56pm)


Lindele
Gondor


Jul 13 2011, 8:00pm

Post #514 of 601 (9940 views)
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hahaha, [In reply to] Can't Post

 


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 13 2011, 8:05pm

Post #515 of 601 (9963 views)
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Maybe not to you [In reply to] Can't Post

For me though, the looks are almost more important than the performance. The major appeal of a film as an adaptation of a book is the chance to see the scenes of the book in a more solid form than the mutable vagaries of your mind's eye. A picture's worth a thousand words, and frankly i don't think Tolkien wrote a thousand words about Kili- this is now the image that will be lodged in my mind as Kili. All the worse when i go to see the films since then i'll have 48 pictures of him per second of screentime to contend with. If you've got a performance that fall's flat it's a lot easier to discard it as you read the book- you're dealing with word-to-word replacement with whatever better version you can imagine, but visually these are now the forms these characters will take in my mind (unless i can come up with a equally complete and far stronger physical image of what the character would be. If there was another live-action film of The Hobbit in the pipeline i wouldn't mind so much, but since this is the only one there is i wish PJ and the powers that be would be a bit more careful with their visual material.

Dr Death


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 13 2011, 8:18pm

Post #516 of 601 (9934 views)
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Can i hire you as my interpreter? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank Christ for you Flagg, you've made my point more palatable- you're a wonderful little liar!Tongue

Lying is a vital social tool, one i've got to admit i'm not exactly proficient in (hence why i get these royal bollockings on this site so frequentlyAngelic). While i don't wholly wish to remove the acidity of my point there, you do a lot better job at articulating the specific meaning underneath the 'tabloid headline' hammer blows i utilise when trying to 'cut the proverbial'.

Dr Death


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 8:18pm

Post #517 of 601 (9919 views)
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I would not say it was for lack of care for their visual material [In reply to] Can't Post

that PJ an company might be faulted. I an very-very certain that Kili's look was considered and discussed at length and that decisions were made that you disagree with, but your dissatisfaction is not due to a lack of care on the movie maker's part. It is obviously a carefully made decision that does not satisfy your preconceived notion of what a Dwarf should look like. I had never thought of a Dwarf like Kili either but then I always thought that Aragorn was tall and Faramir was noble.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 13 2011, 8:20pm

Post #518 of 601 (9909 views)
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Sorry, that's not going to cut it here at TORn [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
i am desperately trying (both for the sake of my argument and with the utmost sincerity) to offend as few people as possible, but there are times when you have to press your accusations through the denial.


Well, since insulting *anyone* here is against our terms of service, I strongly suggest you try harder.



Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 13 2011, 8:23pm

Post #519 of 601 (9999 views)
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I have a better idea [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
How about you go chasing through the books to confirm your hypothesis instead? If you can find me one example of a dwarf being described (without qualification- i.e. not to other dwarves but to human or elven females) as handsome maybe i'll soften....

How about you go chasing through the books and find one instance of Tolkien describing Aragorn as consistently dark, moody and handsome. Otherwise, I thank you for just proving my point. Angelic


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


Theodred
Lorien


Jul 13 2011, 8:27pm

Post #520 of 601 (9902 views)
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I don't know about you, [In reply to] Can't Post

but I have the feeling that this thread started with mostly negative reactions and slowly but surely turned over towards more positive reactions. I think that some people (not all ofcourse), reading other peoples reactions and opinions, picked up various opinions of other people along the way they haven't thought of themselves and because of this, changed their opinion from negative towards more positive and are slowly accepting the fact that it's possible that dwarves maybe are more diverse than most people thought and are not all Gimli-clones, so where at the beginning many people thought Kili is not looking as a dwarf without a decent beard and all, now they're already starting to accept the fact that there could be dwarves like Kili, and by the time The Hobbit comes out, are completely accustomed to Kili as one of the dwarves.

http://dehobbithyve.hyves.nl/
http://www.widgetbox.com/widget/the-hobbit-news-widget-ronald_40


Elfhelm
The Shire

Jul 13 2011, 8:36pm

Post #521 of 601 (9937 views)
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Doh. Remembered it all wrong, it wasn't Rob K. nor was he dual-wielding, and Richard's bow looked fine (and it was not even strung!). Nevermind an old man's ramblings. n/t [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Jettorex
Lorien


Jul 13 2011, 8:43pm

Post #522 of 601 (9876 views)
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Thats because they're not Dwarves... [In reply to] Can't Post

......they're dwelves.Evil


- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."




kiwifan
Rohan

Jul 13 2011, 9:31pm

Post #523 of 601 (9836 views)
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If you take quotes out of context, at least get them right [In reply to] Can't Post

because in mine (the first one of your list), you left out the Wink icon which signified that I had meant it tongue-in-cheek!

'Goodness gracious, you really are a messie!' 'Oh no, I'm not, these are all just mathoms...'


kiwifan
Rohan

Jul 13 2011, 9:44pm

Post #524 of 601 (9820 views)
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I've never been in a strip club of either sort but you are spot on [In reply to] Can't Post

as far as the different kind of admiration women can have for goodlooking men. And my impression is that most of us females in this thread mean just that ---- jokingly, tongue-in-cheek. It seems I was the first one apparently in this thread to start commenting on gorgeous Kili, and got that part of my post misquoted by DrDeath...


Oops, my laptop is beginning to make weird knocking noises, I'd better call it a day, but I just want to say thank you, Taekotemple, for a very thoughtful and well-reasoned post!

'Goodness gracious, you really are a messie!' 'Oh no, I'm not, these are all just mathoms...'


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 13 2011, 9:45pm

Post #525 of 601 (9683 views)
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Tell you what [In reply to] Can't Post

I manage to find references to Aragorn as 'dark' and 'handsome' (moody i have a pretty good idea won't feature (at least not directly- i think i can manage a reference to an analogous phrase though)). And 'consistently' is too vague a term- say three references to each word? If i do it, but you manage my challenge to find a single example of dwarves being called handsome without qualification i'll accept it. Lets quit the talking and get down to business. All texts written by Tolkien (or 'as Tolkien' in the case of posthumous publications) are game, but not Christopher Tolkien's commentary, scholarly texts or derivative works.

Dr Death


(This post was edited by Altaira on Jul 13 2011, 10:07pm)

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