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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Fili and Kili
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marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 13 2011, 12:29am

Post #326 of 601 (13408 views)
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They may not all start out pretty... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I am not one to complain. I generally like what PJ comes up with. But Killi is down right terrible! Other than the large ears he looks 100% human. I am all for variety but they should at least look like they belong to the same race. But he doesn't. Unless his daddy got busy with a human or elf.

And I don't buy the " it's be cause they are young" argument either. Because by that logic all dwarves start out pretty and as they age they get dwarf like? Come on!Unsure

At the very least they have sweet weapons.


They may not all start out as pretty but they may well all start out fairly slender and smooth faced. Actually the funny thing about Kili is, to be I can "see his uncle in him". I mean I could imagine a young Thorin having dark hair like that and sort of glare like the one Kili is wearing.

How often do you see a picture of someone as a teenager and they look all young and freshfaced and then you see them 30 years later and they are fat and gruff and it's like "How did that handsome quarterback end up....like this?" or "How did that pretty cheerleader end up looking like Nurse Ratchett?" I don't see why dwarves should go through less of a change than humans might. I mean I bet all the fat hobbits didn't start out fat, they started out as those adorable little kiddies like we saw at the beginning of Fellowship of the Rings.


nenyacaster
Bree


Jul 13 2011, 12:32am

Post #327 of 601 (13313 views)
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good [In reply to] Can't Post

I like these styles; variety is good. I'm sure that the dwarves are capable of making scissors and razors to cut beards if they so choose to. A population is never without exceptions.


rings7
Rohan


Jul 13 2011, 12:33am

Post #328 of 601 (13334 views)
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I wasn't around the forum during the LOTR time, so [In reply to] Can't Post

what exactly happened to Liv Tyler? Was she on the boards and saw all the heat on her or what?


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 13 2011, 12:37am

Post #329 of 601 (13302 views)
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ROFL! [In reply to] Can't Post

Your posts are few, Richie Rich, but always memorable! :D

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauronís master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Darkfalz
Registered User

Jul 13 2011, 12:39am

Post #330 of 601 (13302 views)
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The first major mis-step [In reply to] Can't Post

Patently ridiculous. Epic failure. Words cannot express how bad Kili looks. Like he's from a completely different universe/race to the rest of them.

This also gives them scope to put in all sorts of jokes about him being the "pretty one" (un-Tolkien humour, that is).

Jackson is mostly competent but every once in a while takes a stupidly bad idea and runs with it (eg Arwen). I guess in any behind the scenes PJ will explain it away by suggesting the dwarven aging process is what makes the older ones (and Gimli) have the exaggerated noses, eyebrows and so on (sort of like acromegaly I guess) - having a 6 o'clock shadow with completely normal human/elven features (minus the out of place ears) and windswept hair is a big slap in the face to every fan of the book.


Annael
Immortal


Jul 13 2011, 12:39am

Post #331 of 601 (13402 views)
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*chokes* [In reply to] Can't Post

LOL!

Although I suppose that the Dwarves that attended Elrond's Council were the elders, while the Dwarves Thorin picked for his little adventure were for the most part the best warriors he could find? Well, maybe not Bombur . . . but I can believe that the youngest ones might not have filled out yet. I was pretty scrawny in my own youth :)

The way we imagine our lives is the way we are going to go on living our lives.

- James Hillman, Healing Fiction

* * * * * * * * * *

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967

(This post was edited by Annael on Jul 13 2011, 12:42am)


rings7
Rohan


Jul 13 2011, 12:42am

Post #332 of 601 (13312 views)
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Seriously i second this [In reply to] Can't Post

some people do find this hard to swallow. But you wouldn't expect 13 ugly (aka Gimli) looking dwarfs for these two movies. That would not be attractive for the viewers. 13 characters are too many to not have "pretty" ones among them. This is Hollywood and Hollywood is eye candy wherever you look at it. So many comments i read somewhere else about how much they love the looks of the dwarfs and the amount of desire to see them in action is increasing. Isn't that the whole purpose?


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 13 2011, 12:44am

Post #333 of 601 (13281 views)
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Yes. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
wouldn't a good Testosterone Tower thread involve male Tornadoes fawning over attractive female actresses?



And not necessarily actresses from LOTR or The Hobbit either. (Although Miranda Otto and Liv Tyler did get more than their fair share of screentime.)

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauronís master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Darkfalz
Registered User

Jul 13 2011, 12:44am

Post #334 of 601 (13311 views)
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Sigh [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
When the cast list started coming out I kept hoping we'd get to see the faces of some of these actors, and it looks like we will be able to. Yup, I'm a wee bit shallow on this point, but I was not looking foward to seeing 13 pairs of eyes staring out of fuzzy faces for two whole films.


Sorry, but Tolkien wasn't meant to be Twilight. I dunno if we can immediately blame PJ on this, I'd say Fran and Phillipa are probably more to blame.

Granted, the hobbits (especially Frodo) looked way too "pretty" compared to illustrations we've seen in the past, but Kili is just not in the same realm of reality as the rest of them.


(This post was edited by Altaira on Jul 13 2011, 12:56am)


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 13 2011, 12:46am

Post #335 of 601 (13232 views)
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In one of the FOTR appendices [In reply to] Can't Post

she makes the comment that she made the mistake of looking at fan websites to see what they were saying, and came away in tears. We don't know if that was during filming or after FOTR was released, or which websites she went to.

However it's clear from the appendices that the change in direction for Arwen began with Liv and Philippa talking over dinner, and Pete also came to the same conclusion. The Arwen change wasn't prompted by fan reaction to the rumours of XenArwen.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauronís master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 13 2011, 12:56am

Post #336 of 601 (13219 views)
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But... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
yes, but these so called " heart throb" or "hunky" dwarves could have at leastly look more like Dwarves, not these armoured up man-child things that look like they are workin for the middle earth fashion industry...


Fili and Kili ARE man-children(or "dwarf-children") - they are basically the dwarvish equivalent of high school seniors or college students. Fili and Kili are basically little more than kids. And not kids who have been hardened in war - kids who are are going on their 'first adventure"(::sniff::) They are basically dwarvish princes who while I'm sure they've been trained hard by their uncle have also in some ways been very protected.

I do think they could have gone a long to reducing negativity if they'd lost the wind machine though. :) I'm not sure why they went the Pantene commercial route with that.

My theory on that is that after the "shock" of "heartthrob dwarves" with Fili and Kili, they figure it'll make all the other dwarves look that much "better" in comparison for the naysayers. Meanwhile those of us who don't care as much can say "gee, that's one hot dwarf!"(depending on one's personal favorite:))


taekotemple
Grey Havens


Jul 13 2011, 12:57am

Post #337 of 601 (13195 views)
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If you're going to say something like that... [In reply to] Can't Post

Can you at least say "some women?" Some of us here who are women care more about the plot than eye candy. Honestly, what with all the concerns people have about Richard Armitage as being "eye candy," I've had a lot more concerns about Turner being too eye candy, no matter how much I enjoyed watching him in Being Human. I wish they at least used a curly wig, as Turner's naturally curly hair seems to me to look more dwarfish than this straight wig.

I'm hoping that his performance will take precedence over his costuming.

As for Twilight, I'm a woman who thinks it's pure drivel, so clearly, not all women have the same tastes and preferences.


Buchanicus
Lorien


Jul 13 2011, 12:58am

Post #338 of 601 (13231 views)
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Dwarves... [In reply to] Can't Post

I would just like to interject that I really like the look of all the dwarves so far... I love how distinct each one is. Just like I've said before, are these the dwarves i've always imagined? No they are not. Do I still think the new designs are great? Yes, yes I do.

It also appears that many "reactions" seem to be of the"knee-jerk" variety... intial reactions without really taking a look at the pictures before "getting upset".

TORn member formally known as ryan1976.


mykonos
Bree


Jul 13 2011, 1:00am

Post #339 of 601 (13085 views)
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I'm not gonna touch that. // [In reply to] Can't Post

Crazy


Garfeimao
Rohan


Jul 13 2011, 1:00am

Post #340 of 601 (13250 views)
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Never been described as Vapid before [In reply to] Can't Post

Definitely going to have fun playing against type for once. ;-)

but plot ignorant, couldn't disagree more on that point.


I'm not sure how someone's looks, be it a real person or an actor playing a role, has any effect on plot or characterization.


Like others here, I'm just going to watch 14, sometimes 15, individuals having an adventure in Middle-earth. They will encounter Trolls and Goblins and Wargs and Eagles and Spiders and Elves and wind up stuck outside a mountain trying to figure out how to get inside without being killed by a Dragon, and in the end, all that matters is how they all get through that together, not what they looked like while doing it.


I kinda think that 'vapid' claim belongs to all those who are so wrapped up in the look of the characters, that they forget there will be a performance aspect to the character.

Peace, Love and Rock & Roll,


Garfeimao
The orange stripey One



Cruise to Middle-earth


squire
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 1:04am

Post #341 of 601 (13187 views)
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Come up, the view is great [In reply to] Can't Post

It's not the kind of tradition that holds up to weekly sessions, of course. But perhaps you missed last fall's session?

And just to ... well, no reason, really. But here:




Cate! "Hmm... wonder how that Necromancer necks?"


Angel! "Hey, Leggy! Want to hunt some p--- um, some orc?"

And sadly missed, especially in the Dwarf-bathing scene in the Great River:

Miranda! "Hey Treebeard! Got wood?"



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd (and NOW the 4th too!) TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 13 2011, 1:09am

Post #342 of 601 (13147 views)
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Ya think? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Countless directors have had to handle making twelve beardy apostles unique and recognisable, i'm sure 13 dwarves isn't that much of an issue.Laugh

Dr Death


Most of the time in all those Life of Jesus movies, the only one who actually stands out is Peter and maybe Judas, otherwise the rest tend to blend into a gang of dark haired guys in long tunics.

So actually no most directors do NOT manage, imo, to differentiate between 12 disciples, most fail pretty miserably and after their initial introductions they mostly just blend into a group, aside from maybe one or two, perhaps 3 standouts.

Thus I can see why PJ would have a difficult job ahead of him. :)


rings7
Rohan


Jul 13 2011, 1:11am

Post #343 of 601 (13131 views)
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sigh back [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm a woman and i hate Twilight. I also care a lot more about the performances of all these actors than how they look. They can be cannon and look the perfect dwarfs and suck at acting.


Garfeimao
Rohan


Jul 13 2011, 1:15am

Post #344 of 601 (13181 views)
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13th Warrior did it fairly well [In reply to] Can't Post

The only film with a large band of warriors who were all supposed to look like warriors that I've seen that did this well was 13th Warrior.

You have Antonio Banderas, beardless, and 12 Vikings who all looked uniquely different to each other, and yet, all a part of the same culture. Some had more facial hair than others, some had tattoos, a few were gigantic, their armor was different, etc. They all worked well together and yet each had unique weapons and duties that all complimented the others.

It is this paradigm that I am hoping PJ achieves in filming this group.

Peace, Love and Rock & Roll,


Garfeimao
The orange stripey One



Cruise to Middle-earth


Ruijor
Rohan


Jul 13 2011, 1:16am

Post #345 of 601 (13132 views)
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My goodness, 15 pages already? [In reply to] Can't Post

All because of a very short bearded dwarf who looks like a young Elrond in a bad hair day? Sly

Well Aidan Turner always stated hat we was growing a beard for the film if I remember it correctly...


(This post was edited by Ruijor on Jul 13 2011, 1:17am)


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 1:18am

Post #346 of 601 (13150 views)
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I said the same. [In reply to] Can't Post

They both, and especially Aidan, look like half-Elves who offended Saruman one time to many and had a shrinking spell placed on them as a consequence.

That said, I DO love the fact that at least Fili has the yellow hair and beard the books described. I was hoping for the same for Kili, just as I still hope for a blue bearded Dwalin. Balin already seems to have the proper white beard. Only five of the Dwarves actually get an explicit physical description in The Book, so those five might as well have their descriptions well adhered to.

In Reply To
These are the first two I'm a little worried about, Kili looks downright elvish to me...

I'm not going to judge until I see them in action tho


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


taekotemple
Grey Havens


Jul 13 2011, 1:23am

Post #347 of 601 (13139 views)
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I do agree with much of what you say here. [In reply to] Can't Post

I was always a little more concerned about how Turner would turn out than Armitage. I really think that they "cleaned" Turner up too much in this picture for him to be Gimli's "fully armed and filthy" statement. Couldn't they have at least kept Turner in curly hair? Curly hair seems so much more dwarfish than these sliken tresses. Or even dreads.

I still don't think dwarves have to look as specificly Gimli-ish as you prefer, but Kili doesn't come across as dwarf. He comes across as a short human.


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 13 2011, 1:26am

Post #348 of 601 (13181 views)
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--> Sub-thread removed for veering off into personal territory... please move on. Thanks! // [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



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marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 13 2011, 1:28am

Post #349 of 601 (13065 views)
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Where is... [In reply to] Can't Post

...this Estrogen Island you speak of? I keep hearing about it, but I've never been able to find it. :)


In Reply To
I don't understand how appreciating the good looks of an actor or actress translates into abandoning all loyalty to Tolkien. Surely you're not going to tell me that anyone of the male persuasion who thinks Liv Tyler or Miranda Otto are hot are traitors to the books?

So, yes, even by including only "a particular group expressing their glee over his steamy appeal" you are painting a very broad brush to take that and draw a very specific conclusion like the one you're drawing about females here at TORn. We don't have anything to prove, but if you know half of us even half as well as we deserve, you would know that none of us deserve that harsh judgment.

I hope you never stumble upon a good Estrogen Island session here (which, by the way, doesn't include a LOTR book-burning), as we'll all sorely disappoint you, as will the lads here who like a good Testosterone Tower thread. Cool



Bombadil
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 1:33am

Post #350 of 601 (13157 views)
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Didn't any of YOU learn anything.................. from Gandalf? [In reply to] Can't Post

"Do NOT be too eager to deal out Death and JUDGEMENT, even the Wise (PJ&CO)....can NOT SEE all ends."

xoxoxOB

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