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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Photo Analysis: Bilbo, Dwarves and Bag End
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News From Bree
spymaster@theonering.net

Jun 27 2011, 8:40am

Post #1 of 61 (7122 views)
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Photo Analysis: Bilbo, Dwarves and Bag End Can't Post

 



As these types of images are released, the staff at TheOneRing.net, and a few of our message board regulars, will be contributing to a new feature in which we hope to live up to the adage "A picture is worth a thousand words." We will delve deep into images as they are released and try to provide you with background, history and speculation as we wait for The Hobbit movies. To follow along, just reference the numbers in the image and the cooresponding numbers below. Click 'continue reading.' Enjoy!


1.  Martin Freeman as Bilbo Baggins




Costume: Keeping in line with the costuming from The Lord of the Rings trilogy, we notice the familiar suspenders over a short collared shirt which we often saw Frodo wearing. A few board members have mentioned the would expect to see Bilbo in a waist coast, but based on the 'surprise' nature of the Dwarves visit, Bilbo does look rather like he was not expecting visitors.


Make-up/Prosthetics: Thanks to board member Kangi Ska and Pipe Dream for an image comparison, we are able to see a difference between Martin Freeman's Bilbo Baggins ears than those of Ian Holm's Bilbo Baggins ears.



I guess we can now say that Hobbit ears age by shrinking over time!



2.  Bilbo's Document

There are a few possibilities for the document that Bilbo is holding. One feasible option suggests this is a list of breakfast requests made by Thorin and Co.. Another, and ultimately the general feeling  among the staff here at TOrn, is that Bilbo is holding are the 'Terms' of his contract with Thorin. In the book, the terms are rather short:

"Thorin and Company to Burglar Bilbo greeting!

For your hospitality our sincerest thanks, and for your offer of professional assistance our gratefulacceptance. Terms: cash on delivery, up to and not exceeding one fourteenth of total profits (if any); alltraveling expenses guaranteed in any event; funeral expenses to be defrayed by us or our representatives, ifoccasion arises and the matter is not otherwise arranged for.

"Thinking it unnecessary to disturb your esteemed repose, we have proceeded in advance to make requisite preparations, and shall await your respected person at the Green Dragon Inn, Bywater, at II a.m. sharp. Trusting that you will be punctual.

"We have the honour to remain
"Yours deeply
"Thorin& Co."

If we can assume the document is indeed the 'Terms' from Thorin, then we can assume some changes from the book. The first would be timing. In the book Bilbo discovers the 'Terms' on his mantle after Thorin and Co. have already left Bag End. Here we see Thorin watching Bilbo read the 'Terms' in person.  One can imagine Bilbo being handed the 'Terms' from Thorin and as he starts to read them, pages upon pages drop to the floor. A bit of comedy which can be excepted from PJ and crew.


3.  Unknown Dwarf

Your guess is as good as ours, but this dwarf could be Bofur, played by James Nesbitt.

4.  Ken Stott as Balin
It is generally agreed amongst the staff that this is Balin, played by actor Ken Stott. Balin is described as 'a very old-looking dwarf'

5.  Thorin



Front and center in the image, we fully expect this is Richard Armitage as Thorin Oakenshield. (Thanks to Pipe Dream for the zoom)


6.  Unknown Dwarf

With make-up and prosthetics, this could be any of the dwarves.


7.  Unknown Dwarf


With make-up and prosthetics, this could be any of the dwarves.


8.  Thror's Map




We can pretty well assume the map on the table is Thror's Map - the map which figures so prominently in the plot of The Hobbit and was briefly featured in The Fellowshp of the Ring.


We will not dare to say our theories and speculative notes here are fact. They could be right, or they could be horribly wrong. If you are interested in joining the discussion, please feel free to join us on our VERY active message boards as we discuss these images and many more. [Forums]





 



Phibbus
Rohan


Jun 27 2011, 2:26pm

Post #2 of 61 (4680 views)
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comedy? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
One can imagine Bilbo being handed the 'Terms' from Thorin and as he starts to read them, pages upon pages drop to the floor. A bit of comedy which can be excepted from PJ and crew.

A very small, clichd bit... as can be expected from Pajama and crew. Excepting it is each's own business.


(This post was edited by Phibbus on Jun 27 2011, 2:29pm)


Runk Snusgrop
Rivendell


Jun 27 2011, 2:31pm

Post #3 of 61 (4659 views)
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Re: Photo Analysis: Bilbo, Dwarves and Bag End [In reply to] Can't Post

Surely #3 is Aidan Turner.

No?



RoseCotton
Lorien


Jun 27 2011, 2:44pm

Post #4 of 61 (4682 views)
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On Bilbo's clothing [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Keeping in line with the costuming from The Lord of the Rings trilogy, we notice the familiar suspenders over a short collared shirt which we often saw Frodo wearing. A few board members have mentioned the would expect to see Bilbo in a waist coast [sic], but based on the 'surprise' nature of the Dwarves visit, Bilbo does look rather like he was not expecting visitors.


Just a pedantic note about Englishness! Smile

Would it be fair to say that Bilbo would have referred to his 'suspenders' as 'braces'? (In British-English, suspenders are used for holding stockings up!)

But... thanks for the use of waist-coat rather than 'vest'! Wink


Hellmistress
Lorien


Jun 27 2011, 3:05pm

Post #5 of 61 (4574 views)
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Yup ... [In reply to] Can't Post

... them's braces. Suspenders are rather raunchy things used for holding up a lady's stockings, preferably silk. Although here in Scotland braces are called 'galluses,' but that's neither here nor there.Wink


HM


In Reply To

Quote
Keeping in line with the costuming from The Lord of the Rings trilogy, we notice the familiar suspenders over a short collared shirt which we often saw Frodo wearing. A few board members have mentioned the would expect to see Bilbo in a waist coast [sic], but based on the 'surprise' nature of the Dwarves visit, Bilbo does look rather like he was not expecting visitors.


Just a pedantic note about Englishness! Smile

Would it be fair to say that Bilbo would have referred to his 'suspenders' as 'braces'? (In British-English, suspenders are used for holding stockings up!)

But... thanks for the use of waist-coat rather than 'vest'! Wink



Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Jun 27 2011, 3:24pm

Post #6 of 61 (4582 views)
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We do see a difference in Bilbo's costume already [In reply to] Can't Post

The sleeve head. This is what's generally called a drop sleeve, where the seam of the sleeve actually drops below the shoulder line. The Hobbits in LOTR all had set in sleeves with a bit of a puff at the shoulder. I guess fashion has changed in the last 70 years Cool

My LiveJournal
My Costuming Site
TORn's Costume Discussions Archive


Bombadil
Half-elven


Jun 27 2011, 3:47pm

Post #7 of 61 (4563 views)
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I have only one Thought about your ideas... [In reply to] Can't Post

I Honestly don't think the Dwarve that is Stareing at Bilbo is Thorin Oakenshield?....he is sitting way back in the meeting Room & hidden from us. He is number 3 in importance to the Story.. after B-boy and G-man, sooo I feel he is the only Surprize Character that

WE as Super-Tolkien Freaks don't get to actually see him, in any promo photo EVER!......until the Release of the First film.

We all know PJ&CO luv's... to surprize &
The only Surprize?
CharACTOR LEFT left is...

T-OMan
(since we already know! what G-Man &B-boy look Like?)

I would Love it
if we finally get into the theatres in the months ahead & the FilmCrew....Surprize us with
"What? the Great TO looks like...
A mystery wrapped up into a Riddle?

(Maybe I should be be in the Marketing department in NZ...because the thing is..."never give away ALL your Riddles"
before we watch the movies?)

A very precious thing is being re-forged in some Far-OFF country? wayover.. near the Horizon, INTO the WEST!
xoxoxOB


Zherkezhi
Bree

Jun 27 2011, 4:25pm

Post #8 of 61 (4499 views)
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A good thought [In reply to] Can't Post

... clearly something that would fit the secretive approach of the filmmakers.
However, you can make out Richard Armitage's features ... the dwarf staring at Bilbo has to be Thorin. Then again, he is hooded - you cannot quite tell how he's going to look like in the movies...



Pipe Dream
Gondor


Jun 27 2011, 4:27pm

Post #9 of 61 (4508 views)
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Wow! I made the main page again, Sweet! [In reply to] Can't Post

Although, to be fair...I do feel that in order to do an accurate comparison of Bilbos, we should limit ourselves to the LOTR prologue Bilbo only. (Hobbit time frame) Unfortunately we can not see Bilbo's ears when Ian Holm is in Gollum's cave, but what we do see, is a blonde no gray hair Bilbo, with less of a receded hairline, very much younger looking and almost a spot on match for Martin Freeman's Bilbo. After the prologue the Bilbo portrayed by Ian Holm is different. We see a still young looking Bilbo, but with a gray thinning hairline that is also receding, and what appears to me to be drooping ears versus ones that are shrinking.



"There is a long road yet," said Gandalf. "But it is the last road," said Bilbo.


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Jun 27 2011, 4:47pm

Post #10 of 61 (4482 views)
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*squeee* [In reply to] Can't Post

I just got a mini-glimpse of an upcoming costume thread!!! *geeky hand-clapping* :D

sample sample

I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.



TORn's Observations Lists
Unused Scenes



Pipe Dream
Gondor


Jun 27 2011, 5:12pm

Post #11 of 61 (4468 views)
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Honestly? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I Honestly don't think the Dwarve that is Stareing at Bilbo is Thorin Oakenshield?


How could it be anyone else but Thorin?



"There is a long road yet," said Gandalf. "But it is the last road," said Bilbo.


mendil
Rivendell


Jun 27 2011, 5:47pm

Post #12 of 61 (4437 views)
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Has anyone matched this picture to the Video? [In reply to] Can't Post

I apologize in advance if this has already come up before.

There's a scene in PJ's start-o-production video where all the dwarves, sans costume and make-up, are seated at Bilbo's table.

It seems to me that, if the actors have become acustomed to sitting at the same place or in the same relation to each other every time, there might be some correspondences that can be made. In the Video, PJ goes through some effort to get them seated in the correct order, Thorin in the front just as in the picture.

"... But of bliss and glad life there is little to be said, before it ends; as works fair and wonderful, while still they endure for eyes to see, are their own record, and only when they are in peril or broken for ever do they pass into song."


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jun 27 2011, 5:51pm

Post #13 of 61 (4412 views)
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Not so much shrinking as sagging [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
I guess we can now say that Hobbit ears age by shrinking over time!


Although some shrinkage of cartilage combined with a loosening of the skin forming the ear and on the head around is to be expected.


Phibbus
Rohan


Jun 27 2011, 6:05pm

Post #14 of 61 (4470 views)
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Thorin? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
I Honestly don't think the Dwarve that is Stareing at Bilbo is Thorin Oakenshield?


How could it be anyone else but Thorin?



Bah... it is surely the chief security officer of the expedition...




SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jun 27 2011, 6:17pm

Post #15 of 61 (4448 views)
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Neo-barbarian is "in" I guess [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Thorin to Drogo: "It's like looking in a mirror."


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Jun 27 2011, 6:19pm)


Pipe Dream
Gondor


Jun 27 2011, 6:22pm

Post #16 of 61 (4423 views)
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Funny. [In reply to] Can't Post



"There is a long road yet," said Gandalf. "But it is the last road," said Bilbo.


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jun 27 2011, 6:23pm

Post #17 of 61 (4372 views)
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Yes, thank you PipeDream [In reply to] Can't Post

user generated content keeps many of us coming back for more.Smile


mendil
Rivendell


Jun 27 2011, 6:27pm

Post #18 of 61 (4401 views)
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... based on the video [In reply to] Can't Post

The seating order seems to be (in part):

Nesbitt/Bofur
Kirchner/Bifur
Callen/Oin
Kazinski/Fili
Turner/Kili
Hunter/Bombur
Brown/Ori
Hadlow/Dori
Brophy/Nori
Hambleton/Gloin

This suggests that (7) is Bofur and (6) is Bifur.

If (3) and (4) are the "missing" dwarves (as far as my list above goes) then they would be Dwalin and Balin. Otherwise, they may be Nori and Gloin.

However, (3) looks like Hambleton to me, unless it's Adam Brown.

"... But of bliss and glad life there is little to be said, before it ends; as works fair and wonderful, while still they endure for eyes to see, are their own record, and only when they are in peril or broken for ever do they pass into song."

(This post was edited by mendil on Jun 27 2011, 6:29pm)


chrismortega
Bree


Jun 27 2011, 6:32pm

Post #19 of 61 (4365 views)
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yep [In reply to] Can't Post

I was thinking the same thing.

"NEVER TRUST AN ELF!"


dormouse
Half-elven

Jun 27 2011, 6:46pm

Post #20 of 61 (4376 views)
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*Chuckles* [In reply to] Can't Post

The idea of Bilbo in suspenders is more than a little worrying....... Wink


little mouse
Rivendell

Jun 27 2011, 6:56pm

Post #21 of 61 (4408 views)
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About Thorin [In reply to] Can't Post

I also thought that PJ will not reveal us Thorin very quickly because everyone wants to know how he will look like, but this dwarf looks very much like Richard Armitage

Maybe is just me but the bald dwarf looks like Graham McTavish


namarie
Rohan


Jun 27 2011, 7:08pm

Post #22 of 61 (4363 views)
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6. The face of the dwarf remindes me of William Kircher [In reply to] Can't Post

So 6 could be Bifur. Maybe :)


There is always hope


FarFromHome
Valinor


Jun 27 2011, 7:09pm

Post #23 of 61 (4338 views)
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But not so odd... [In reply to] Can't Post

... that someone hasn't thought of it before...

Tongue

They went in, and Sam shut the door.
But even as he did so, he heard suddenly,
deep and unstilled,
the sigh and murmur of the Sea upon the shores of Middle-earth.
From the unpublished Epilogue to the Lord of the Rings



Zherkezhi
Bree


Jun 27 2011, 7:10pm

Post #24 of 61 (4380 views)
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The Seating Plan [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey everyone,

based on PJ's video (source), I created this seating plan (which, I think, is rather accurate):



In the article's image, Bilbo is outside the dining room. I guess, however, Bilbo's position will change during the evening, being the host and everything... :)
Also, I am not sure about the position of Dwalin and Balin - but I think I got it right...


(This post was edited by Zherkezhi on Jun 27 2011, 7:14pm)


Zherkezhi
Bree


Jun 27 2011, 7:24pm

Post #25 of 61 (4353 views)
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Updated Seating Plan [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello everyone,

I just noticed that I totally forgot one of the most distinguished dwarves, Gloin.
Here is an updated version of the seating plan:



Best wishes


(This post was edited by Zherkezhi on Jun 27 2011, 7:25pm)

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