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Kendalf
Rohan
Jun 21 2011, 11:15am
Post #51 of 89
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The screenings are a side issue, I think
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They'd continue unaffected, regardless of whether there was an announcement. (Interestingly, according to many fans, the teal tint is absent from the copies of FotR showing in cinemas at the minute - another fact that suggests there's been a mistake in the production of the blu-rays).
But, to be honest, I'm beginning to think there won't actually be any announcement of any sort until after release. There are plenty of reasons for this.
1) Any such announcement would involve the nightmarishly expensive task of recalling all the blu-ray sets from all the retailers they've already been shipped to and then replacing them (somehow) and reshipping them
2) Not only would that be nightmarishly expensive, it would also be hugely embarrassing for the studios
3) It would have a devastating impact on initial sales (if the announcement was made but the sets weren't withdrawn)
4) If the announcement is left til after release, sales will be unaffected and many casual viewers may not even notice. That way, the studio can keep the cost of replacing the faulty discs way, way down (as many viewers won't notice, others won't become aware of the replacement programme and still others won't ever get around to sending their discs off)
Of course, all of the above depends on the announcement being "Yes, we made a mistake" rather than "No, it's what we intended"...
(This post was edited by Kendalf on Jun 21 2011, 11:17am)
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Kendalf
Rohan
Jun 21 2011, 11:25am
Post #52 of 89
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Impact equipment can have on the image
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@Steven van der Berg
Yes, you're absolutely right: the equipment used can have an enormous effect on the nature of the image seen.
BUT I don't believe that the legions of independent fans / reviewers that have been posting screenshots have been deliberately and maliciously tweaking their settings to make the comparisons seem as bad as possible and thereby fan the flames of this controversy. On the whole, I think what we're seeing is what the average viewer is going to be getting...
AND I don't want to have to adjust my own TV's settings just when I want to watch FotR. I don't have to do it for any of my other DVDs and blu-rays...
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Steven Van der Berg
Rivendell
Jun 23 2011, 2:08pm
Post #54 of 89
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In reality, the differences between those shots are relatively small, though those subtleties make a great difference at least in my minds eye. :) Users displays may vary more than that from a given spec.The difference between an old CRT and a limited NTSC color gamut and a high-end digital projector with an extended RGB pallet used in a cinema, may tip the balance. LOTR's experimental colorspace was always a thinly tread line between intended surreal beauty and something other. The human eye is very sensitive to any variances. It would be an odd twist that the outcome depended upon the color gamut abilities of ones display, but it may be.
My own current display is much more pedestrian, so I may just have to settle for that bit of variance from ideal.
(This post was edited by Steven Van der Berg on Jun 23 2011, 2:09pm)
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Sharky
Bree
Jun 23 2011, 10:53pm
Post #55 of 89
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Been reading a lot of comments on various Blu-ray forums... from what I gather, It seems like this green/blue filter was most likely stuck on the picture after PJ and Andrew Leslie worked on it. I just wonder if they've seen the end result... also, apparently the contrast has been fiddled with, resulting in a very dark picture with some detail crushed out in places. Its a tragedy, because otherwise this seems like a fantastic transfer.
And here we find you, feasting and... smoking!
(This post was edited by Sharky on Jun 23 2011, 10:56pm)
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SteveDJ
Rivendell
Jun 24 2011, 12:49am
Post #56 of 89
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Tried looking for green tint in TTT at the theater...
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Now with the lights out, and the only color that which is on the screen, it can be difficult to recognize any color tint. But having read about this controversy this last week, and seen some comparison shots, I spent just a few minutes Tuesday night tryiing to pay particular attention to the color while watching the EE TTT on the big screen.
In my opinion, I was NOT seeing a green tint -- but again, without true color to compare against, the brain will just adapt such that a green-tinted snow would feel to the brain as if white -- so I cannot be 100% sure.
But it was making me feel like the reports might suggest a production error on the DVDs. And then I got to thinking -- all these comparison shots - where did they come from? How many different DVD sets were previewed? Is it possible that a core reviewer had a setting off on their equipment, and from there came the screenshots and all? (I have NOT read details much beyond these boards here, I just don't have the time, so maybe the green has been proved directly from disks already?...)
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Patty
Immortal
Jun 24 2011, 1:07am
Post #57 of 89
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I just want the warmth and vibrancy and "safeness" that Hobbiton was
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originally graded to have. The safeness that Rivendell is supposed to have. If that's still there, and the movie isn't darker than it originally was, I'm good. Oh well, I'll know next week, cause the price is down to where it always should have been.
Permanent address: Into the West
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JWPlatt
Grey Havens
Jun 24 2011, 1:28am
Post #58 of 89
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- The tinting issue is only with the The Fellowship of the Ring transfer on the LOTR EE Blu-ray. There are no complaints about the other two films.
- This is not about previous DVD editions or the TE Blu-ray release (which had DNR/compression complaints, but that's another story).
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SteveDJ
Rivendell
Jun 24 2011, 3:22pm
Post #59 of 89
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Having the tinting issue only on one of the three - definitely sounds like somebody made a mistake somewhere in manufacturing or the like. My problem is: I don't have a BluRay player ... yet (was holding out for this release, you know). I may be buying it, but not able to watch it for another month. Meanwhile, I expect (well, hope) that when everyone contacts Warner/NewLine saying they have a defective disk 1 and 2, that an official return/exchange policy gets announced.
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JWPlatt
Grey Havens
Jun 24 2011, 4:01pm
Post #60 of 89
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Meanwhile, I expect (well, hope) that when everyone contacts Warner/NewLine saying they have a defective disk 1 and 2, that an official return/exchange policy gets announced.
Yeah, well, if and when Peter Jackson directly comments to the issue, and if he says the static green overlay upon the entire film is exactly how he wanted it, there would be no exchange. The controversy would move on to discussions of revisionism in film and/or the faddish, and therefore artistically suspect and corrupt, nature of color grading.
The current thinking is that a post-sale exchange would be less costly and far more efficient and preferable for everyone than a pre-sale recall, so maybe we'll see a statement after the official release date of June 28.
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Lunamoth
Rohan
Jun 25 2011, 1:51pm
Post #61 of 89
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I fiddle with my screen settings...
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...all the time. Mostly because I think most movies, when they get to DVD, are too dark for home viewing anymore. It's a peeve of mine.
So I'd probably end up changing the color settings on my TV and never realizing it had to do with the BluRay DVDs being tinted in a wonky way. 
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Kendalf
Rohan
Jun 25 2011, 10:59pm
Post #62 of 89
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@Sharky
I'm hoping the dark picture is purely a result of the tint, though my 2010 copy of "Gladiator" which arrived this week (I only found out they'd remastered it when this whole Fellowship debate broke out!) certainly looked darker than I remember the DVD being. I hope this isn't another new trend...
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Kendalf
Rohan
Jun 25 2011, 11:06pm
Post #63 of 89
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The source of all the screenshots
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@SteveDJ
When the controversy first started, I thought might be a possibility, too, but by now there are way, way, way too many different screenshots from different sources all to have come from the same initial poster (with a dodgy monitor).
And, yes, the tint has indeed been proven to be present by various techno experts (eg Ken Brown over at blu-ray.com) across the entire film (even though it may be more noticeable in some scenes than in others).
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Kendalf
Rohan
Jun 25 2011, 11:17pm
Post #64 of 89
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What will the announcement be?
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@JWPlatt
I don't believe we will be talking about revisionism in a few weeks; I'll eat my hat (and yours, if you have one) if Jackson comes out and says this is a deliberate artistic choice!
1) Its impact is plainly terrible in places
2) Its across the entire film, not just certain sections
3) It hasn't been added to Two Towers or Return of the King (if all three had had it applied, then...)
I can't agree, though, that the whole process of colour grading is "artistically suspect and corrupt". I want my Shire's greens to be lush, my Rivendell's yellows to be warm, don't you? Or do you just mean the current Hollywood obsession with teal? In which case, I agree wholeheartedly.
(This post was edited by Kendalf on Jun 25 2011, 11:19pm)
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JWPlatt
Grey Havens
Jun 26 2011, 12:06am
Post #65 of 89
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Kendalf: I can't agree, though, that the whole process of colour grading is "artistically suspect and corrupt". I want my Shire's greens to be lush, my Rivendell's yellows to be warm, don't you? Or do you just mean the current Hollywood obsession with teal? In which case, I agree wholeheartedly.
Yes, that's it. I want the same lushness and warmth as you in those places. Like the recent tealization of films, it's artistically suspect and corrupt when decisions are made because they are trendy and faddish rather than because they are soundly artistic and aesthetic. When the fad fades, those things will be terribly dated and obvious.
Agreed on # 1 and 2, though the film looks better in places too - such as Rivendell. From what I understand, #3 wasn't done because TTT and ROTK were already fully digital and had already received the desired color grading. FOTR was still optical in places.
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Sharky
Bree
Jun 26 2011, 12:12am
Post #66 of 89
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...An example of that dark contrast.
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@Kendalf Yeah, hope it's just the tint too! Have seen comparison shots on one of the Blu-ray forums, of the scene where Frodo and Sam are about to leave the shire... would need to do a lot of searching to find them, but the shot I'm talking about is here:
http://www.blu-ray.com/...19929&position=7
I believe the scarecrow is a good example of detail lost because of the darkness of the transfer.
And here we find you, feasting and... smoking!
(This post was edited by Sharky on Jun 26 2011, 12:15am)
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Kendalf
Rohan
Jun 26 2011, 9:25am
Post #67 of 89
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@JWPlatt
Yep, you're right, TTT and RotK have indeed remained untouched for exactly that reason: Jackson was happy with them.
My point is that (sorry if I didn't make it clear), if the teal tint really was in fact a deliberate artistic choice for Fellowship (albeit a disappointingly lazy one), then why wasn't it applied to those two too in order to create a visual / aesthetic consistency across the entire trilogy? Its obvious absence, in my book, adds further weight to the contention that its presence on Fellowship is accidental...
Anyway, yes, the sooner this teal fad dies, the better.
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Kendalf
Rohan
Jun 26 2011, 9:36am
Post #68 of 89
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@Sharky
Yep, I've seen other examples, too and they're especially heart-breaking given the incredible overall improvement in detail etc over the Theatrical Release.
Anyway, here's hoping the teal rain-curtain of this transfer rolls back and all turns to...er, what it should have been.
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Kendalf
Rohan
Jun 26 2011, 1:48pm
Post #69 of 89
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...but I'm going to make one more before my UK copy arrives later this week and I get to witness the source of all this controversy with my own eyes!
Just for the thrill of it, I'm going to commit now: the tint is a mistake.
1) It's a blanket presence across the entire film showing no regard whatsoever for individual scenes or locations
2) Its impact is indisputably negative in many areas
3) It hasn't been applied to TT and RotK, which it should have been if it was a new artistic choice for the trilogy
4) The tint is absent from the thumbnails on the Scene Selection (pop-up) menu (apparently)
5) The tint is absent from the digital copy (apparently)
6) The tint was absent from the screenings in cinemas across the US recently
7) Jackson and Warner Bros have not moved to quash the controversy
I hereby rest my case.
(This post was edited by Kendalf on Jun 26 2011, 1:50pm)
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JWPlatt
Grey Havens
Jun 26 2011, 3:53pm
Post #70 of 89
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Kendalf: My point is that (sorry if I didn't make it clear), if the teal tint really was in fact a deliberate artistic choice for Fellowship (albeit a disappointingly lazy one), then why wasn't it applied to those two too in order to create a visual / aesthetic consistency across the entire trilogy? Its obvious absence, in my book, adds further weight to the contention that its presence on Fellowship is accidental...
I understood. I hope it is accidental. I believe it is, and for all the reasons you list in a subsequent post, especially indicriminate and injudicious use of the green paint bucket. Professional reviewers seem oddly unwilling to commit to that because they want to be objective, lacking word from Jackson. I think there's a lot of "Emperor's Clothing" and cognitve dissonance to it all. The only reasoning that is so far unprovable is that we haven't seen the color treatment The Hobbit will receive and how it might tie in with Fellowship of the Ring to lead from one to the next.
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Patty
Immortal
Jun 26 2011, 8:31pm
Post #71 of 89
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I hope this issue is addressed soon after the release...
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There is so much bickering and fighting on the home theater sites about this release that it is sad, and will only stop after WB and Lesnie or Jackson address this.
Permanent address: Into the West
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Sharky
Bree
Jun 27 2011, 9:37pm
Post #72 of 89
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...have appeared on Spanish site ZONADVD.com. The top pix are from the theatrical Blu-ray,the bottom pix are from the EE Blu-ray:
http://www.zonadvd.com/...ticle&artid=1198
And here we find you, feasting and... smoking!
(This post was edited by Sharky on Jun 27 2011, 9:37pm)
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Kendalf
Rohan
Jun 27 2011, 9:51pm
Post #73 of 89
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@Sharky
Well, apart from Gandalf arriving in Hobbiton (which, to me, seems too green), the rest are, in my view, improvements (apart from the slight increase in darkness in the Bilbo-pouring-tea shot)...
Which is something of a relief because I've just had THIS posted two hours ago in my Discussion topic on the Official Lord of the Rings Facebook page!!
Warner Bros Home Entertainment Group confirms that The Lord of the Rings The Motion Picture Trilogy Extended Edition Blu-ray accurately represents the intended look of each of the three features. The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring™ was remastered from the original digital production files in order to reproduce the full color imagery of the feature.
As stated publicly by Robert Harris, renown film archivist and overseer of the restorations of The Godfather, Lawrence of Arabia and many other classic titles:
“How many films truly endure decades and the test of time?
Casablanca, Lawrence of Arabia, The Godfather, The Wizard of Oz, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Gone with the Wind…
Think about it.
How many films are purposefully passed down from parent to child, generation to generation, as something that has attained a sense of wonderment, and endures that passage of time?
From the masterworks of J.R.R Tolkien, filmmaker Peter Jackson has created a motion picture trilogy that not only has that quality to endure, but now Warner Home Video has brought Mr. Jackson’s work to Blu-ray as he wishes them to be seen.
The imagery and audio of these new editions are not only problem free, but have a very special majesty and exultation about them-- perfect in every frame.
Make no mistake. The new Blu-rays of Peter Jackson’s Lord of the Rings trilogy on Blu-ray are a ceaseless wonder that will survive the generations. They demand your attention.
Colin McKenzie would be pleased.
Very Highly Recommended.”
-RAH
Well?
I have a few questions. Anyone else?
(This post was edited by Kendalf on Jun 27 2011, 9:53pm)
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Sharky
Bree
Jun 27 2011, 10:21pm
Post #74 of 89
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... I agree, those shots actually look pretty good (although it could be argued that Rivendell should have that more 'golden' colour), but there are other scenes that seem adversely affected by the tint. Some shots posted posted at the link below that have been held up as particulary questionable:
http://mirror2.avsforum.com/...=1307189&page=79
Those captures (or similar ones) have been posted before on several forums, and there are others out there... the top pic of the hobbits (the 'sceond breakfast' scene!) looks pretty ugly... haven't got a comparison shot to hand, but the green tint is quite strong and some detail appears obscured.
As for the Robert Harris statement (which has been doing the rounds for perhaps the last week or so) , some folks have suggested that his tone is a little tongue-in-cheek...
And here we find you, feasting and... smoking!
(This post was edited by Sharky on Jun 27 2011, 10:22pm)
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Kendalf
Rohan
Jun 27 2011, 10:50pm
Post #75 of 89
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@Sharky
Really? A week or so? I'd no idea. I wonder why they left it til today then to post it on the official Facebook page? Strange, but then it's not the only thing around this whole debacle that's strange...
As for those "improved" shots you posted from the Spanish website, yes, those were just about the first I'd seen from the new blu-ray that were clearly superior to the Theatrical Version; just about every other shot I've seen (like "second breakfast") has been bizarre / disappointing / grotesque etc (colour-wise, not detail).
(This post was edited by Kendalf on Jun 27 2011, 10:53pm)
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