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taekotemple
Grey Havens
Jun 24 2011, 5:23am
Post #201 of 318
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We don't keep old men imprisoned in our heads! That would be classifiable as elder abuse, and I'd have to report you to APS (Adult Protective Services).
Aww. Poor guy! 
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Jun 24 2011, 7:15am
Post #202 of 318
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All of the pictures were extremely exciting. Curious about the Wizard hat, though.
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Really excited by everything I saw. Bilbo reading the contract. . . PRICELESS!
Very glad to see that Gandalf's beard looks at least as long/full as it was in Fellowship. That sais, I did think the hat looked a little too grey. I hope they stick to the blue hat as seen in Fellowship, and that they do not try to match the hat colour to some of the toy/scuplture merchandise. The book says " a tall, pointed BLUE hat." And the Fellowship film followed that very well, so I hope there is no detour here.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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FarFromHome
Valinor
Jun 24 2011, 7:20am
Post #203 of 318
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is the same as believing that someone can do no wrong. Perhaps all people are saying is that (like many other pleasures in this world) you can't fully enjoy a story if you don't relax and allow yourself to trust the storyteller. Of course it's your choice whether or not to let go of your reservations and allow yourself to be drawn into the story, but if you choose not to - if you prefer to remind yourself of what you wanted this story to be like, rather than becoming a willing believer in the story that's being told - then you will most likely be disappointed in the result.
So perhaps people were just saying: if you'd like to enjoy this more, trust more. Or not. It's your choice in the end.
They went in, and Sam shut the door.
But even as he did so, he heard suddenly,
deep and unstilled,
the sigh and murmur of the Sea upon the shores of Middle-earth.
From the unpublished Epilogue to the Lord of the Rings
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FarFromHome
Valinor
Jun 24 2011, 7:31am
Post #204 of 318
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is a kind of British National Enquirer.
Facts are not their strong suit.
I'm sure you're right that the length of filming is directly proportional to the amount of money that's being invested and consequently the kind of profits that are now being demanded. LotR was filmed on a shoestring considering its ambitions, and there's no way that can be done now, when everyone is on the bandwagon. It's a shame that The Hobbit is being lumbered with the expectations that LotR's success has generated. But on the other hand, without LotR The Hobbit probably wouldn't have been made at all.
They went in, and Sam shut the door.
But even as he did so, he heard suddenly,
deep and unstilled,
the sigh and murmur of the Sea upon the shores of Middle-earth.
From the unpublished Epilogue to the Lord of the Rings
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Patty
Immortal
Jun 24 2011, 7:34am
Post #205 of 318
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Maybe it's just a dress rehearsal , not a shoot, and
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Richard just isn't wearing all of his make up etc.
Permanent address: Into the West
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Mooseboy018
Grey Havens
Jun 24 2011, 7:43am
Post #206 of 318
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It's probably still just as blue.
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That entire photo looked grey-ish, and the hat looked blue in the production video.
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maut
Rivendell
Jun 24 2011, 8:30am
Post #208 of 318
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very likeable. Because we should see Gandalf in that scene close to Thorin.So I think this maybe is not an exact shot.
Maybe. Maybe not.
Actually I thought there will be more prosthetics, and that they will do Bilbo look more like Holm. Maybe a bit aged I I mean. But he still looks great. Maybe even greater. I like his ears and feet.
Thorin is ok, but he looks not very dwarfish. Like a man with beard. Not like Dwarf. But maybe it will all be tweaked up during the film-making process. May be some computer tricks, I don't know.
But still they look ok for me, I can live with them.
And besides, I need some action to judge
Far over the misty mountains cold
To dungeons deep and caverns old
We must away ere break of day
To seek the pale enchanted gold.
__________________________________
...and the sound of the kettle on his hearth was ever after more musical than it had been even in the quiet days before the Unexpected Party
________________________________
Welcome back to Middle-Earth!!!
(This post was edited by maut on Jun 24 2011, 8:31am)
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stormcrow20
Gondor
Jun 24 2011, 8:59am
Post #209 of 318
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Is that a new staff next to Gandalf?
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After going back and admiring these fantastic photos countless times throughout the day, I noticed something in the one featuring Gandalf. To his left, just above his hat...is that a new staff? I finally convinced myself it was just part of the tree, but the more I look at it, the more it looks like the top of a staff. And as far as I can tell, it resembles neither of the staffs he had in Fellowship.
Here is a close-up, along with a comparison of his first staff that Saruman took in FotR:
I haven't liked all of the decisions made regarding Gandalf's staff in the trilogy, and I once thought that his staff should be the same as the first in FotR. But now I'm actually liking the idea of a new and different staff for The Hobbit, and this one looks fine, if that is indeed what it is.
Anyway, I love that image of Gandalf. It brings to mind the scenes of Frodo reclining in or against a tree, and it's even evocative of Der Berggeist, the painting that inspired Tolkien's Gandalf. It also fits into a theme that some of us once noticed quite a while ago, where Gandalf sits and thinks fairly often throughout the movies. I can't find that discussion with the search feature...wow, was it back on the old boards?
Now I'm even wondering if that fringe-looking material at Gandalf's knees is his silver scarf that Ian McKellen confirmed on his blog. I was tremendously excited over that little detail, as I've been hoping for it all along (yet I never noticed it hanging on his cart in FotR!).
I'm thrilled to see the dwarves and Bilbo, too! This is so exciting! I can't believe we are already seeing photos, as well as a video. Next thing we know, we'll all be sitting in a theater hearing "In a hole in the ground..."
A greenlight from the shadows shall spring!
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namarie
Rohan
Jun 24 2011, 9:00am
Post #210 of 318
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I say it's good to have an old man in your head
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makes you wiser
plus I think is all good and warm inside so no Adult Protective Services needed 
There is always hope
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namarie
Rohan
Jun 24 2011, 9:08am
Post #211 of 318
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and that could be the head of his staff because it doesn't look like it belongs to the tree.
And if it's his staff it's a new one. :)
and yes it looks like there is something under his left knee but i don't know if it's a scarf or not :)
There is always hope
(This post was edited by namarie on Jun 24 2011, 9:13am)
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Merowen
The Shire
Jun 24 2011, 9:19am
Post #212 of 318
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I thought exactly the same thing!
Never ask an Elf for advice, for he will say both 'Yes' and 'No'.
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Merowen
The Shire
Jun 24 2011, 9:21am
Post #213 of 318
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Although the picture is so blurry, I guess on purpose so that we can't see much.
Never ask an Elf for advice, for he will say both 'Yes' and 'No'.
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Bound
Rohan
Jun 24 2011, 9:22am
Post #214 of 318
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The photos are just photos... they are Promotional Shots, to give people an idea of how things will look like.
They aren't scenes from the actual film...
The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed
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Merowen
The Shire
Jun 24 2011, 9:46am
Post #215 of 318
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Doesn't it look like Thorin has his axe next to him in the chair (green arrow)? It was one of the first things I noticed when I first saw the photo but now I'm not sure. Why would he have his axe there. And what is that weird piece of furniture (blue arrow), part of the chair?
Never ask an Elf for advice, for he will say both 'Yes' and 'No'.
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DrDeath153
Lorien
Jun 24 2011, 10:01am
Post #216 of 318
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Just like Thranduil says it'll be a long time before he goes to war over gold (despite arriving at the lonely mountain with an army), it's not like i'm going to shed blood over Thorin's appearance in the film. I mourn the imperfect Thorin as a lost opportunity but that doesn't mean the film itself is going to be crap and for all his sins PJ has never murdered Tolkien in cold blood (in fact based on what we know of the shape of the film so far he's actually making less changes than i would in his shoes. Even in a car-crash of an adaptation there are still things you can appreciate and take from it in terms of your mental incarnation of Middle-earth (who would have thought that Bakshi's animated version would be the first to make use of the definitive Gollum actor, or the animated Return of the King to have a fine line in apocalyptic colouring for the pivotal Battle of Pelennor Fields?) Visually certainly i have every reason to trust Peter Jackson, considerably more than i would Guillermo del Toro. I shall just have to look elsewhere for my own definitive Thorin from all appearances (the irony that i don't have to look that far- only to the leader of another bunch of dwarves i admit does sting me) but it's not grounds for a boycott of the film entirely- the story of The Hobbit is ultimately a far bigger issue than how aged Thorin is looking and at least i can console myself that not being some old crotchety bugger he's unlikely to be simply defined as an antagonist like Agamemnon in Troy (one of my great fears with the suggestion of Brian Cox).
That said i'm not going to go into the cinema forgetting my whole impression of the character and sit there with a rictus grin plastered on my face. As a fan of the book my enjoyment (in a sense) comes second to it's successful and accurate translation onto the screen (because it is the original that i derive my enjoyment from). To use an exaggerated example, PJ decided to turn Smaug into some transformer-esque beast of iron, fully articulated with pistons and shivering ranks of metallic scales. I might, detaching myself from the book enjoy it on it's own merits, but knowing the original it would ultimately not represent the facts or themes of what Tolkien wrote about Smaug (though a similar idea is present in the 1917 'Fall of Gondolin' narrative) and so viewed objectively within it's context it would count against it. You mention the snowballing effect and that's kind of a concern but not in the sense of unconnected bad judgements (though i daresay there'll be a few of those), rather there are ramifications to every decision (think chaos theory only on a smaller level)- If Thorin is young then what does that mean? What could that one decision lead to? If he's young will he have the same relationship with Bilbo or with Balin, how will he act in regards to the situations? What new spin will his development through the course of the story take? When a cornerstone character like Thorin starts to lean or break away there is a risk that the whole story becomes skewed, something that wouldn't happen if the changes occurred to a less load-bearing role like Dwalin or Ori. There is obviously very little risk of that tiny change bringing the whole house down (then again mis-casting has been known to ruin certain films) but it may very well twist it out of shape to a greater or lesser degree.
Even if it did though, even if the whole thing came crashing down around our ears it'd still be worth the process of building it- there would still be building materials that would be salvageable and the lessons of construction that came with it's fall - better to have loved and lost and all that so don't get me wrong on that count- even if they'd cast Taylor Lautner as Thorin the film would still be worth a watch (and judging of the arguments in favour of young Thorin, why not Lautner?) but if it was my money i'd only build such a grand abode on the very best and most suitable materials.
Dr Death
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willowing
Lorien
Jun 24 2011, 10:27am
Post #217 of 318
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Good shots of Bilbo and Gandalf
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.....and I do love the layout and interior design of the kitchen and the round room where some of the dwaves are sitting. Look at the round door with its beautiful solid panelling.
Looking forward to seeing the cloaks on the dwarves.
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mulubinba
Rivendell
Jun 24 2011, 10:52am
Post #218 of 318
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Thanks for posting! Speaking for this family - we all liked what we have seen so far.
Looking forward to the movies very much 
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Flagg
Tol Eressea
Jun 24 2011, 11:09am
Post #219 of 318
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There are those of us who think that an antlered helmet would help Thorin to stand out among the other Dwarves, as well as giving him a distinctive silhouette and a memorable and regal look. I don't see how it's any more ridiculous than a helmet with the horns of a bull, or any other creature. In fact, I still hold a tiny grain of hope that PJ has not discarded this particular design feature. Here are some examples of what it might look like:
Obviously any helmet worn by Thorin would be of much higher quality than these ones, but you get the general idea.
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DrDeath153
Lorien
Jun 24 2011, 11:16am
Post #220 of 318
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Bear in mind that Balin was one of the first dwarves to arrive
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Whereas Thorin arrived at the bottom of a pile of dwarves right at the end. If Thorin had been introduced before Balin and on his own without mention of his age or hair colour i would agree he was not noticeably old looking or notably greying, but as the situation unfolded i think the narrative propulsion was the most important element in that particular moment and so all extraneous detail was removed. I don't think any of the dwarves in that bundle were described as wearing clothes other than their hoods while others did at least get a mention so are they exceptions to the naked dwarf rule? Combined with the solid fact he was the oldest of the dwarves, older than Balin i think it is safe to assume he was grey.
In terms of premature greying, yes, young people can be grey or even white haired, on the other hand, i don't think anyone makes it into the winter of their years without getting a bit of snow on the roof. Modern hair-dye allows you to look younger for longer (explaining Mr McShanes glossy black locks) but sooner or later men start to get the whiff of the silver fox about them (and women don't escape the ravages either).
It's not just the hair-colour though- if Richard Armitage had a greying beard that wouldn't solve the problem of his look- it's the smoothness and definition of his features in that picture that equally give the game away (if not more). One of the great things about Ian McShane's face (and something that would likely be transferred into his prosthetics if he was cast) is the ravages of age that have started to tell. He's lived a life, he's had a few hard nights, the way his eyes bag and his jowls hang around his mouth tells you he's not a young pup any more, it gives the face character, it tells of a hard life. Of course there are some who live into their old age and yet remain eternally youthful- Cliff Richard could never bluff it convincingly that he's had a drinking problem and a string of illegitimate children whereas the puckered visages of Mick Jagger and Keith Richards give the game away immediately. My dad got Keith Richards' autobiography for christmas and i was looking through it and you see that he didn't start out an ugly man- he wasn't born with those lines, but the way age and his lifestyle have affected his very facial features is remarkable. Thorin has lived a tough life, and from what we've seen in this picture there is no evidence of that: the skin is still smooth, the cheekbones are still high and unmarred by drooping bags from the eyes, the nose is as defined and uncoloured as the teetotaller actor (nothing against teetotallers, i'm something of one myself) and there isn't a single furrow in his forehead or cheeks. Either cosmetic surgery is anachronistically advanced in Middle-earth or he's lived a very comfortable and stress-free life. Frankly i don't see either of those being likely.
Dr Death
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DrDeath153
Lorien
Jun 24 2011, 11:18am
Post #221 of 318
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Horns or antlers on the helmet are not an inherently bad idea. The tongue-in-cheek inspiration might have been a bit offputting but a horned helmet is considerably less ridiculous than a winged helmet or any other kind. If it works it works,
Dr Death
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Maiarmike
Grey Havens
Jun 24 2011, 11:33am
Post #222 of 318
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Huh...I can't really see much of Thorin in the photo, but I can make out his strong features.
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Anyways, I find it to be like arguing over an album cover of sorts, it's the music that actually matters, rather than the wrapper.
"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak
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sphdle1
Gondor
Jun 24 2011, 11:36am
Post #223 of 318
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I think the answer to the films' length is
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that the Hobbit book part of the screen play is only half of the movies. I think the book has been split between the two movies, but is only half of what is in each film. The other half is extra material that PJ and writers have come up with based on Appendices..possibly from both the Hobbit and LOTR books, plus there may be some new fresh story line of the writers making in there.
sphdle1
"You shall not pass!"
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Maiarmike
Grey Havens
Jun 24 2011, 11:36am
Post #224 of 318
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Good to hear from you Ainur...
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I too noticed that about his hat, but I think it might just be the color tinting of the promotional photos, these things always look so strangely doctored in some way. What are your thoughts about the whole 'Thorin should be grey' thing?
"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak
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sphdle1
Gondor
Jun 24 2011, 11:39am
Post #225 of 318
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I would assume most IMAX theaters can handle digital material at this point, which means no limits on how long it can run, within reason of course.
sphdle1
"You shall not pass!"
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