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Delrond
Rohan
Jun 15 2011, 2:48pm
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Long time listener, first time caller. Watched the FOTR EE in Greenwood IN to a nearly packed house. The PJ intro was included. Audience was very subdued until Aragorn's beheading of the Uruk Hai leader near the end (loud cheers and applause). I must say, I was not totally impressed with the picture quality. Some close-ups were a bit grainy. But overall, I enjoyed the experience.
As an aside, and it may need a separate posting: Watching the movie reminded me of a plot line that was paved over -- Namely how Merry and Pippin acquired the Numenorean blades that Merry eventually stabbed the Witch king with in ROTK. Galadriel states that they were blades of the Noldorin that had already seen battle. My recollection was that they were discovered in one of the barrow-wights' lairs and their origin was Numenorean, not Noldorin.
Cheers
Things are now in motion that cannot be undone.
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Patty
Immortal
Jun 15 2011, 3:39pm
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That's interesting. I've been following controversies on other sites about the picture quality...
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based on, mostly screencaps. I don't know how accurate screen captures are, but the primary concern seems to be that a strong green tint has been added to Fellowship, such that areas that should be white (snow) have a green cast to them and areas that should be blue look teal now (the sky). I guess I could live with different coloring from the original movie (although I don't like it--I gather your eyes eventually adjust to it) but what it does seem to do, at least to me,anyway, is make the overall "look" darker. Fine detail seems more clear, but I wish they would have left the color timing alone. My enthusiasm for the EE release has taken a nose-dive.
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Jun 15 2011, 3:58pm
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The review above states that the colour timing had been approved by Peter Jackson. Do you have a link to screencaps etc?
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Patty
Immortal
Jun 15 2011, 4:08pm
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There is a ginormous thread going on
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Blu-ray.com where folks have provided shots. The thread is called "Lotr extended editions". Folks seem to be divided on how this looks, and I read that PJ and Lesnie had been consulted through Harry Knowles because of the discontentment, but that this new coloring is with their blessing.
I'm hoping that Bill Hunt's positive review on the Digital Bits is reflective of how I'll see the discs to look on my TV. But I just wish folks would realize that darker is not always better.
On one of those sites, I'm sorry, I don't remember which, it's suggested by a poster that maybe the new color timing is to bring Fellowship more in line with how The Hobbit will look. I don't know.
If you can't find the thread in Blu-ray.com let me know and I'll go through and find one for you. I do have an account there, but I don't think you have to have one to be able to see the caps. AVS and even the thread in The Digital Bits have screencaps, too.
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Patty
Immortal
Jun 15 2011, 4:21pm
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in this thread on the HomeTheaterForum. Adms, please delete this separate post if it's not okay to provide this link.
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/forum/thread/312235/a-few-words-about-the-lord-of-the-rings-trilogy-extended-edition-in-blu-ray#post_3822199
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Jun 15 2011, 4:37pm
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Welcome to the boards, Delrond
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Forgot to say earlier. Look forward seeing your posts 
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Patty
Immortal
Jun 15 2011, 4:50pm
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Yes, welcome to TORn, Delrond...
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Don't go back into obscurity!
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Must. Have. The Precious! Give us the LotR EE Blu-ray Ultimate Box Set!
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Jun 15 2011, 5:02pm
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Didn't expect such a big difference. Cyan snow?? Oh dear... **goes to cancel pre-order** No, I just can't do it :P
This video is worrying... http://youtu.be/Vwcm-73kZE8
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Patty
Immortal
Jun 15 2011, 5:14pm
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I'm determined to be optimistic. I want to love this.
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But you're right--it's worrying.
What I would normally do under these circumstances is wait, Netflix and then decide. But Netflix isn't so good at getting Blu-ray versions of films that have been out for a while. I'm still waiting for them to make a copy of blu-ray Topsy Turvy available, and the last I looked they didn't yet have An Affair to Remember, either. So, that won't work, because I want to know as soon as possible (June 28th) how these films will now look on my screen.
Still, Robert Harris, and to a lesser extent Bill Hunt are very respected in the industry, so since they are both giving this a thumbs up I will try to stay optimistic.
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MrCere
Sr. Staff
Jun 15 2011, 8:36pm
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I know Jackson and Lesine wanted it this ways.
The print of the EE, also remastered, was excellent. I even think the sound was improved.
I have no choice but to believe in free will.
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
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Patty
Immortal
Jun 15 2011, 8:54pm
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If you're talking about what we saw last night, yes, the sound was definitely improved.
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I heard things I'd never heard before.
But the picture...
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taekotemple
Grey Havens
Jun 16 2011, 1:41am
Post #13 of 89
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I noticed how good the sound was too...
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But I didn't notice the difference in the tinting to be as extreme as people are saying. The snow looked white enough to me. I wonder if it's in part the color grading, but also in part the projector being used at each particular theater?
The only weird thing I noticed was that Aragorn's face during the scene where Frodo was talking with him about Boromir trying to take the ring had some grainyness. Otherwise, I was noticing how I could see the pores on peoples' faces, and I wasn't even at an IMAX viewing.
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SteveDJ
Rivendell
Jun 16 2011, 2:24am
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I just get 403 Forbidden trying to go to that hometheaterforum thread :-( //
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SteveDJ
Rivendell
Jun 16 2011, 2:36am
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Instead of saying the left side is greener, I felt the right side was sorta washed out...
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I'm referring to the YouTube video linked in the post I'm replying to - so if you haven't seen it, go look at it first.
Imagine that what we will see on the BluRay releases (the left side of the video) is how it had always been from day 1 in the theaters back in 2001. And that you'd become used to seeing it that way for the last 10 years. So, you are just used to this 'green' effect or whatever it might be called.
Now imagine that this new release came out, looking like the right side of the video comparison. To me, I'd be complaining that the new look was washed out, or bland, or faded.
I'm sure that most complaints are only because we can make a comparison, and people don't like change. All I know is, when I watched the EE in the theater last night, I was definitely not thinking "this looks green", rather I was just thinking "this looks beautiful"!
Also, the snow will NOT look green in a darkened room/theater. But, it likely WILL look green put next to some other white object for comparison. That is just how our brains work (I just read a science story about a study on such whiteness perceptions in our brains - but cannot remember where, else I'd post a link). If the snow is the whitest looking white on the screen, our minds will automatically make it "white".
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Steven Van der Berg
Rivendell
Jun 16 2011, 7:30am
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The portions shot and composited on film and put through a regular chemical process to obtain a certain color tonality and later edited together with portions that were given a digital grade, probably didn't and couldn't get as intense of a color grade as those that were scanned and regraded entirely in the digital domain. Also, because we are dealing with film that may be a generation or more removed than that obtained from the digital interpositive, you're likely to get other shifts in tonality that aren't going to be duplicated from a new scan taken from a source higher up the chain. It was going to have to be regraded irregardless. It looks to me, like the portions that may not have gotten as much of a grade before have been brought in line with the rest of the film.
TTT and TROTK , both of which were scanned, edited, graded in the digital domain, differ very little from other versions.
The brain, when given a choice between two color samples, one being closer to what it's calibrated to think of as pure greyscale, will think it more correct than one presented with a colorcast off from that norm.
One isn't necessarily "wrong" when compared to the other. In this case it's a pure artistic choice, selected. The color reference was always something other than the norm.
I think some people like to think they can "outsmart the magician" when it comes these things. It bolsters their sense of themselves if they think they've spotted something that the wizards behind the magic have forgotten or erred on.
(This post was edited by Steven Van der Berg on Jun 16 2011, 7:39am)
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Steven Van der Berg
Rivendell
Jun 16 2011, 7:55am
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If there is no set-point or norm of color throughout a given world, (Rivendale has different rules than Mordor. )you're bound to have a few hiccups. ;)
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Jun 16 2011, 1:27pm
Post #18 of 89
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Some changes look good. Some very bad
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A lot of work went into the digital grading of Fellowship. As can be seen in this video: http://youtu.be/M4zRMLbZZxw
What I'm worried about is that some scenes will actually loose part of their cinematic quality... Example.. first image here: http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/498/fotr4.png
I'd always picked up on and liked the fact that Arwen's skin tones were visible in such a cold monotone shot. It made her look warm and added to her beauty. In this edition she is as cold as the scene that surrounds her oddly drawing your attention to the lights behind her.
Also note the second and third pictures, Rivendell looks much less golden, a palette that was made to represent the elves entering their autumn years on middle-earth. The gold still exists but it's less warm and and everyone looks kinda pale.
The strangest example is this... The ringwraiths have just been held-off by a massive wave of white horses, and Frodo begins to fade into unconsciousness. The screen fades to white.... or in this case... green? http://postimage.org/image/2zaubxdpg/
I'm not saying the blu-ray will be worse, because other examples do look better, and I'm sure the sound is amazing. But I am worried that some of the more appealing scenes (the dead palette of Moria, the Urine-stained Prancing Pony) that I've not seen screencaps of might have lost their original impact.
(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Jun 16 2011, 1:30pm)
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Patty
Immortal
Jun 16 2011, 3:11pm
Post #19 of 89
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when Hobbiton was first seen, there was a warmth that red, yellow etc. colors produced that seems to be missing now.
Oh well, it is what it is. I just wish they would have left it the heck alone.
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SteveDJ
Rivendell
Jun 16 2011, 3:21pm
Post #20 of 89
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Funny thing about that first image
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That image comparing 4 screenshots between original and BluRay -- everyone it talking about a greenish tint to the BluRay, yet in that shot, I would complain that the original seems to have an overall yellowish tint, I actually prefer the BluRay samples in that shot.
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Alientraveller
Lorien
Jun 16 2011, 8:25pm
Post #21 of 89
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That's why it'll be hard for me to get used to
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Imagine that what we will see on the BluRay releases (the left side of the video) is how it had always been from day 1 in the theaters back in 2001. And that you'd become used to seeing it that way for the last 10 years. So, you are just used to this 'green' effect or whatever it might be called.
True, true, but I can't help but wonder if PJ's succumbed to Hollywood's current obsession with teal and orange. I'm joking, but I loved the goldness of Hobbiton, Guillermo del Toro spoke about emulating that for The Hobbit. I've always loved the greys and reds in addition to blues and oranges in films before LOTR set the trend of colour grading and it was used by people less imaginative than Lesnie.
Anyway, I have my DVDs and I'll stick around to watch LOTR in HD when The Hobbit films are out.
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Patty
Immortal
Jun 16 2011, 9:12pm
Post #22 of 89
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Yes. It's the taking away of the warmth of Hobbiton and the darking of the entire picture
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that I fear from all the discussion and screen captures on the AV sites. But hopefully that won't be what the discs themselves look like.
This is going to be a long couple of weeks before June 28th!
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Patty
Immortal
Jun 17 2011, 4:19am
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This latest one contains comparisons. Most of it is not so bad...
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but some, like the scene in the Midgewater Marshes, I definitely prefer the earlier release. Comparison shots come after the review.
http://blubrew.com/2011/06/16/the-fellowship-of-the-ring-extended-edition/
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Patty
Immortal
Jun 17 2011, 2:16pm
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And another excellent review that touches on the controversy of the new color Fellowship has
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http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Lord-of-the-Rings-The-Fellowship-of-the-Ring-Blu-ray/19929/#Review
Scroll down to The controversy: An Unexpected Journey.
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