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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
CoH: Turin in Nargothrond - Anlgachel reforged

Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Aug 8 2007, 4:25am

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CoH: Turin in Nargothrond - Anlgachel reforged Can't Post

For this post I’m going to steal a few passages from the previous chapter as a lead-in to the reforging of Anglachel.

In the previous chapter Gwindor decided it was better not to bury Beleg’s sword, Angalachel, with him:

“But the dread sword Anglachel Gwindor took, saying that it were better that it should take vengeance on the servants of Morgoth than lie useless in the earth.”

1) Beleg’s bow, Belthronding, was also a great weapon that could be used against the enemy. Why didn’t Gwindor take it too?

Gwindor then gave the sword to Turin:

“And Gwindor gave the sword Anglachel into his hands, and Turin knew that it was heavy and strong and had great power, but its blade was black and dull and its edges blunt. Then Gwindor said: “This is a strange blade, and unlike any that I have seen in Middle-earth. It mourns for Beleg even as you do.”


Turin accepted the sword and later had it reforged.

2) Turin was obviously beside himself having just killed his best friend with that very sword. Why would he have anything to do with it? In his numb state, did it even register at the time? If so, do you think he took it as a memento of his friend, or for some other reason?

Turin renamed the sword, Gurthang, meaning “Iron of Death.

3) Was Turin thinking of the past, or looking to the future when he chose that name for the sword?

4) The sword seemed to have a life or ‘will’ of its own. Could it have influenced Turin in choosing its new name?


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Eledhwen
Forum Admin / Moderator


Aug 8 2007, 5:48am

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1) Swords are an important part of Tolkien's whole mythology - Narsil, Glamdring, even Sting, all have a role over and above any other weapon - particularly in the hands of the heroes.

2) I don't think he was really thinking, but even if he was, it suits Túrin's nature to want to use the sword to wreak his vengeance and avenge Beleg's death.

3) It's a very literal name. It is a piece of iron that causes death.

4) I think the sword must have had some influence, for Túrin to be able to use it at all. I have no doubt that if it had chosen so it wouldn't have let him wield it.

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FarFromHome
Valinor


Aug 10 2007, 8:08pm

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1) Beleg’s bow, Belthronding, was also a great weapon that could be used against the enemy. Why didn’t Gwindor take it too?

Perhaps because Beleg was named for his bow, making it inseparably his. Whereas the sword was one of those ancient "mathoms" that passes from hand to hand.


2) Turin was obviously beside himself having just killed his best friend with that very sword. Why would he have anything to do with it? In his numb state, did it even register at the time? If so, do you think he took it as a memento of his friend, or for some other reason?

The blackness of the sword made it look as if it was mourning its old master ("It mourns for Beleg even as you do”) - so it echoed Turin's own feelings. And Turin must have also had a desire to use it to wreak vengeance on Morgoth, as Gwindor says. It must have seemed like an appropriate symbol to take, both to remind him of what he had done, and as a promise of what he would do to make amends.


Turin renamed the sword, Gurthang, meaning “Iron of Death.

3) Was Turin thinking of the past, or looking to the future when he chose that name for the sword?


I imagine him naming it for his own terrible mistake of killing Beleg with the sword. He seems to like to come up with names to beat himself up with.


4) The sword seemed to have a life or ‘will’ of its own. Could it have influenced Turin in choosing its new name?

That depends whether you believe that inanimate things really have a will of their own, or whether they act by gripping the imagination of their owners and thereby intensifying the owners' own thoughts and fears. The fact that the sword had been "responsible" for killing Beleg was enough to influence Turin's choice of a name for it, I think. And his intention of using it to revenge his friend's death would have been another factor in that choice.

...and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew,
and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth;
and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore
glimmered and was lost.


Saelind
Lorien


Aug 15 2007, 3:40am

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In the previous chapter Gwindor decided it was better not to bury Beleg’s sword, Angalachel, with him:

“But the dread sword Anglachel Gwindor took, saying that it were better that it should take vengeance on the servants of Morgoth than lie useless in the earth.”

1) Beleg’s bow, Belthronding, was also a great weapon that could be used against the enemy. Why didn’t Gwindor take it too?
*It was a part of Beleg. He was famous for his skill with it. It seemed appropriate to bury him with it. Like burying a king’s sword with him.

Gwindor then gave the sword to Turin:

“And Gwindor gave the sword Anglachel into his hands, and Turin knew that it was heavy and strong and had great power, but its blade was black and dull and its edges blunt. Then Gwindor said: “This is a strange blade, and unlike any that I have seen in Middle-earth. It mourns for Beleg even as you do.”


Turin accepted the sword and later had it reforged.

2) Turin was obviously beside himself having just killed his best friend with that very sword. Why would he have anything to do with it? In his numb state, did it even register at the time? If so, do you think he took it as a memento of his friend, or for some other reason?
*I don’t think it registered with him at the time. I think he just did what Gwindor told him to do.

Turin renamed the sword, Gurthang, meaning “Iron of Death.

3) Was Turin thinking of the past, or looking to the future when he chose that name for the sword?
*I think Turin was thinking more about the future and the death it would bring to his enemies. And Turin had shown some foresight in the past. Perhaps he “saw” what the sword might be capable of.

4) The sword seemed to have a life or ‘will’ of its own. Could it have influenced Turin in choosing its new name? *Possibly but I doubt it. Turin has a dramatic streak in him so he tends to choose “extravagant” names for himself and now things.


(This post was edited by Saelind on Aug 15 2007, 3:43am)


GaladrielTX
Tol Eressea


Aug 15 2007, 5:38pm

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I think this was just another way for him to dwell on unpleasantness, keeping a reminder of his having slain his friend. If Túrin was a monk he would have been the sort to wear hair shirts and lash himself.

~~~~~~~~

Coming up with reasons for changing my nick from GaladrielTX to Galadriel wore me out.


 
 

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