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The One Ring Forums: Off Topic: The Pollantir:
Are you a Homeschooler or Not
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Poll: Are you a Homeschooler or Not
Want to be
Will be
View Results (44 votes)

Lady Brynna
The Shire

Jun 1 2011, 2:29pm

Post #26 of 129 (542 views)
Thanks [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for all these posts I didn't think this many people would post.


Jun 1 2011, 4:44pm

Post #27 of 129 (563 views)
I understand that Kids know there's a difference between [In reply to] Can't Post

Boys and girls and sometimes at a very young age.  I see nothing wrong with that.  I mean how many times have some little girl told a boy he *can't* be the mom when they're playing house "because he's a boy"?  Knowing that boys and girls are different is fine, it's apart of life but, when you should be letting four year olds play with dolls and run around outside shooting invisible enemies they're teaching them that "if you are attracted to a boy and you're a boy, that's okay!". A four year old can hardly handle their emotions and need their parents help to understand things like why vegetables are good for you and you have to eat them.  I don't think they should be learning how it's okay if you like a boy.

Sure they can "know what that means" but, they don't understand it fully to be able to make mature choices. And I'm speaking from my own experience. I "knew what x meant" but when I got older I was able to really know what x meant and how z played into it and why y was also important. 

I was watching the news the other day at a friends house (btw, they're in the 50s...lol.  My mom, sister and I visit them every Thursday) and they were talking about some schools beginning to teach preschoolers and up about why boys and girls are different.  They are telling them about bugs that "change" to become a different gender and how it's okay.  And they were going to start exposing kids to homosexuality but, "at the approperiate age" which they said was five or six.

I'm not saying kids should sit in a self contained box and not meet anybody that's "different". But, shouldn't we at least wait until they're old enough to understand it fully and make mature decisions about it?  I know you could argue that the age comes to people at different times.  But then I say let's have the parents tell them when they think they're ready instead of having a school spill the beans to any kid under five within earshot.

I'm just saying my opinion...so I hope it doesn't come off as an attack.    Smile

I usually just say what I think and joke that I have five cents not two because my name if Nic.  Short for nickel, ya know!Tongue

Wraith Buster

Jun 1 2011, 4:48pm

Post #28 of 129 (525 views)
More like on a broader range [In reply to] Can't Post

Not just with LOTR.
Maybe it's just the peeps I'm around that try to pigeon hole others. You guys aren't like that.Tongue

Gollum the Great

Jun 1 2011, 4:56pm

Post #29 of 129 (506 views)
Thag you very buch![:)] [In reply to] Can't Post

wait a minute - how do you know I even have a head? or shoulders?

Just kidding. Laugh I do have a head (and shoulders). whether it's a good one or not, I couldn't say...


Jun 1 2011, 5:03pm

Post #30 of 129 (500 views)
Just so long as your head is "on your shoulders" [In reply to] Can't Post

and you are not carrying it around under them.

Gollum the Great

Jun 1 2011, 5:07pm

Post #31 of 129 (557 views)
Exactly! A quote, if I may... [In reply to] Can't Post

If you've ever read The Hiding Place, you may remember this (Corrie was just a little girl when she asked this):

"And so seated next to my father in the train compartment, I suddenly asked, "Father, what is sexsin?"
He turned to look at me, as he always did when answering a question, but to my surprise he said nothing. At last he stood up, lifted his traveling case off the floor and set it on the floor.
Will you carry it off the train, Corrie?" he said.
I stood up and tugged at it. It was crammed with the watches and spare parts he had purchased that morning.
It's too heavy," I said.
Yes," he said, "and it would be a pretty poor father who would ask his little girl to carry such a load. It's the same way, Corrie, with knowledge. Some knowledge is too heavy for children. When you are older and stronger, you can bear it. For now you must trust me to carry it for you."

There are so many bad things in the world. You can't shield your kids from them forever. It wouldn't be good if you did. Home schooling isn't about hiding the harsh facts of life from kids. But there is absolutely no reason a five year old needs to know about a lot of things that are going on. They'll find it out eventually. Let them enjoy innocence while they can.

This turned out to be a great topic, Lady Brynna. And it's really neat to see all these people who are home schooled! This might sound kind of wierd, but I've lurked around TORN for a long time, and I already feel like I know a lot of you. So it's fun to see users I've read for a long time saying they're home schooled (for example, Gimli's Box, I've loved your username for a long time. It's awesome! and you were home schooled! so cool!)

Gollum the Great

Jun 1 2011, 5:08pm

Post #32 of 129 (526 views)
Hang on, let me check in the mirror.... [In reply to] Can't Post

nope, it's on top. all good. Tongue

Wraith Buster

Jun 1 2011, 5:09pm

Post #33 of 129 (503 views)
LOL!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

In my family, we're not over-the-top, obsessively-sheltered, ridiculously smart, amish people! (not that I have anything against Amish people, it's just that when you're homeschooled people automatically think you must all wear dresses and bake your own bread).Wink

That's so funny.


Jun 1 2011, 5:14pm

Post #34 of 129 (489 views)
I've read that quote before but forgot it. Very fitting. Thanks for sharing! [In reply to] Can't Post

You seem to fit into TORN perfectly. It's good to finally "met" you!Smile Stick around!Tongue

Gollum the Great

Jun 1 2011, 7:23pm

Post #35 of 129 (546 views)
Mae govannen! Hannon le :) [In reply to] Can't Post

I already love it. One of the things that's attracted me to TORN is how friendly everyone is. I very rarely see a post the admins have to edit (except for oversised pics, which seems to be the normTongue)

by the way, has anyone seen Tim Hawkins' "The Homeschool Family" video? You might have to be a homeschooler to appreciate a lot of it, but it's a hoot! Now whenever we go out in public, we arrange ourselves in age order and march, just because it draws some pretty fun looks (I have five younger siblings)


Jun 1 2011, 7:35pm

Post #36 of 129 (475 views)
Yeah I've seen it...but I only have one sis so, we don't get too many weird looks. [In reply to] Can't Post

She's Wraith Buster on here.Cool


Jun 1 2011, 8:00pm

Post #37 of 129 (497 views)
Nope [In reply to] Can't Post

My wife's aunt homeschooled. Those poor children walked straight into abusive relationships when they got big enough. That's how much they were properly socialized. And then they homeschooled *their* kids. But *those* kids left home as soon as they could and worked hard to get a proper education. (One worked two jobs slinging burgers to support herself and her siblings, and went to school too!) And now *those* kids are making darn sure their kids get public schooled.

Mom always said if you really want children to get a proper education, attend all school board and PTA meetings.

Not to say homeschooling is a bad thing if it's done right.

BTW, in my day it seemed to me kids only knew about the Lord of the Rings because they saw other kids carrying the book around in school. They'd read it and like it, carry it around in school, and other kids would see it, like it, rinse, repeat.

Not bad for a school in the worst neighborhood in Dallas. (We had the best track team around because South Oak Cliff kids were already trained to start running when they heard a gun go off.)

I heard it's gotten even worse. A couple of years ago the pricipal and staff were caught staging cage fights between students for punishment and their own amusement.

So yeah, maybe it's best to home school....

Gollum the Great

Jun 1 2011, 8:04pm

Post #38 of 129 (479 views)
Wait, serious?! [In reply to] Can't Post

It must be awesome to have a sister who's also into LOTR!

The sis closest to my age isn't super huge on LOTR, she tried to convince herself she was a starwars fan for a while, but fortunately thought better of it and is still looking for something to be geeky about.

I think my best hope is my second sister, she's big on reading and loves fantasy. She's still a little young for LOTR, and I don't want to force it on her, but I'm pretty sure she'll love it. She's already read Farmer Giles of Ham and Roverandom, and I did a little study on "Smith of Wootton Major" with her for school.


Jun 1 2011, 8:11pm

Post #39 of 129 (488 views)
Yeah it's awesome! We're really close too so, we totally geek out on each other. [In reply to] Can't Post

You just have to start talking to your sister all the time about LOTR. Keep feeding her little bits of facts and soon she'll want to read it and watch the movies. Be tricksy!Laugh


Jun 1 2011, 8:19pm

Post #40 of 129 (498 views)
My mom is supper big on reality. And common sense. And reality. Did I say common sense? [In reply to] Can't Post

So yeah.Wink Plus she said she was raising adults not kids. And we talk a really lot about everything.

I think that's why some some homeschoolers, once they're adults, go out and get themselves into trouble 'cause they don't talk with their parents.

But, I think it's kind of unfair to say they got into abusive situations BECAUSE they were homeschooled. Public schooled kids do that too and people don't say it was BECAUSE they were public schooled.

Both my parents grew up in public school and have seen some stuff. I'd ask their opinion if I didn't feel I knew about the subject enough to make a educated decision.

But, that's just me.Tongue

Gollum the Great

Jun 1 2011, 8:23pm

Post #41 of 129 (479 views)
Wow, sad :( [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, there are "home school" families who don't do such a great job. and they're the ones who make it hard for the rest of us, because they're the ones who always seem to make the news. I'm sorry for those kids.

But I think the problem isn't "socialization". I mean, think about pioneer families. They wouldn't see any other people for often years at a time. Yet a lot of them turned out ok.

I think the problem is when kids aren't taught how to deal with situations properly. My parents aren't just teaching us what to think, they're teaching us how to think.

My parents didn't just choose homeschooling because they hoped it would make us smarter (it doesn't :). It's because they wanted to be the ones to teach us right from wrong. They wanted to "train us up in the way we should go, so when we are old, we will not turn from it."
If the parents are isolating the kids without teaching them how to deal with life, then yes, there is a problem.
But that's not what the majority of home schoolers are like! Most home school parents are doing their best to make sure their kids get a good education AND are prepared for life.

Gollum the Great

Jun 1 2011, 9:09pm

Post #42 of 129 (493 views)
Exactly! [In reply to] Can't Post

Having a good relationship with your parents is so important, whether you're homeschooled or not. And siblings! It's NOT easy (not that it's ever MY fault when we fight Angelic Evil).

But if I went to public school, I'd hardly ever see my family! And I would miss so much of my sib's growing up! When you're home schooled, you get to be there every step of the way. It's so fun!

Grey Havens

Jun 2 2011, 6:46am

Post #43 of 129 (517 views)
Well, some of what we are talking about is value, some is fact. [In reply to] Can't Post

First off, let me say that I'm not offended, I just don't agree with you based on science, psychology, and my own personal values.

The reality is, in nature there are some animals that can change gender. This is fact. Teaching kids this isn't teaching them to be homosexual. It's teaching them that in nature, in species that aren't even human, this exists. And animals who can change gender aren't even homosexual. They just change gender. Human beings can't spontaneously change gender, so teaching kids that it happens in other species doesn't mean it will make them want to become transgendered, much less homosexual.

Now, personally, I don't think it's wrong to teach kids that homosexuality exists. Maybe it's because I grew up around it. Knowing that homosexuality exists didn't make me gay (as I am most definitely straight), and it didn't involve me having to learn too much about sex before I was ready. It didn't even make me question my sexuality at all. Also, I have friends who are gay, lesbian, or bi who have told me that they knew they were gay since they were very small children. Can you imagine how alienating it was for them to grow up being told that the way they felt was not normal? So when it comes to my personal values, I don't think it's wrong for children to know it exists. And if it's a topic that comes up, it should be explained in age appropriate terms.

I think the problem is that a lot of people assume that being a member of the LGBT community is all about who you have sex with. I really doubt the people I know who are LGBT spend all day thinking about sex and who they have sex with. So if a kid has two mommies or two daddies, does that mean that kid is exposed to sex all the time? Absolutely not. So what's wrong with them going to school and having the other kids understand that having two mommies or two daddies isn't necessarily a bad thing? And what about the incredibly high rate of LGBT teen suicides? The major contributor to that is bullying. Wouldn't there be less bullying of those LGBT teens if understanding and tolerance were taught in schools? In fact, our very own Gandalf, Sir Ian McKellan, helped start an organization called Stonewall to teach anti-homophobia education. He doesn't want kids today to grow up with the biases he's experienced in his life.

The hard thing about this topic is that it is such a heated one. There are so many different views, whether based on life experience, religion, general fear, confusion... I think it's pretty clear you have a viewpoint, and it's quite possible that there's nothing I can say here that may help you see a different point of view on the subject. But I share it because I've known so many wonderful people in my life who have suffered because of people who aren't willing to open their minds up to learn a little more about what's really behind the label.

Maybe I've just gotten to a point in life where I've seen that there is so much negativity and hate in the world, it makes me question why people are so against teaching children that it's okay to love someone, no matter what shape or form they come in.


Jun 2 2011, 3:24pm

Post #44 of 129 (507 views)
Well [In reply to] Can't Post

Public schooled kids do that too and people don't say it was BECAUSE they were public schooled.

On the contrary, I would say so.

I think the institutionalized sexual harrassement tolerated in so many public schools today can so destroy self-esteem that it's like admistrators are deliberately training kids to relate to the other gender solely through abusive relationships, males as the abusers and females as the abused.

For that reason alone I'd be very tempted to home school my kids, though well leavened by the cautionary examples of my wife's family.

One wonders if it's like the old Socratean caution: No matter which you chose, you will regret it.

Gollum the Great

Jun 2 2011, 5:21pm

Post #45 of 129 (462 views)
I mean this from the bottom of my heart, [In reply to] Can't Post

I will never regret being homeschooled, and my parents will never regret homeschooling me or my siblings.
I'm not saying homeschooling is for everyone, or that it's the only way. A lot of my friends are public schooled and are just fine (whatever that means?Smile)

I really don't think sexual harrasment has anything to do with where you go to school. It depends on the choices the individual makes.


Jun 2 2011, 5:34pm

Post #46 of 129 (487 views)
I like being able to discuss things without hating each other for it so, [In reply to] Can't Post

This is really cool!

Ultimately I know animals change gender.  It is a fact.  It has a place in biology. 

Schools should be in place to teach kids about facts not choices in lifestyles. Although homosexuality is a fact it doesn't teach them any thing that will help them grow up to be productive adults that can support themselves in life.

Choices in lifestyle are just that- choices.  Those are personal things that should be decided outside of learning.    If they want to learn about it they should do that on their spare time by getting a book from the library or looking it up on the Internet.  

Plus I don't really want to pay for five year olds to learn about gender differences and how that plays into your lifestyle choices when they could be learning something like math or how to read with my tax money.  That's my hard earned money and they're not even learning something that would help them get a job.

And then they still come home with a hours worth of homework.  Maybe if we dropped the extra stuff they would have more time at home to spend with their parents who could help them understand why they feel the way they do if they feel like they are "different".

Arwen's daughter

Jun 2 2011, 5:48pm

Post #47 of 129 (480 views)
Being gay isn't a choice [In reply to] Can't Post

Growing up gay, asexual, transgender, or straight and cisgendered isn't a choice. People are born the way they are liking the gender they like and nothing is going to change that. Teaching children that homosexuality is okay is absolutely about making them productive adults because it removes the emotional damage that being told you're wrong/bad/evil does to a kid from a very early age and it takes a stab at neutralizing bigotry among the other students (any more than society already does, of course).


Jun 2 2011, 7:14pm

Post #48 of 129 (427 views)
Ah, I see what you're saying now.// [In reply to] Can't Post



Jun 2 2011, 7:23pm

Post #49 of 129 (501 views)
I'm going to have to disagree. I believe God created each person and he wouldn't [In reply to] Can't Post

Put the desire for people to do something he said was wrong. That would be unfair of him to expect us not to do something he told us not to do. If there would be any reason for people being "born with it" is because of us inheriting a sinful nature from our parents who ultimately got it from Adam.

From my experience people who become gay, etc have had troubled pasts with relationships especially when their parents weren't there for them when they needed love the most. The need for love is in all of us and if we haven't been given it we look for it in other people.

I'm not saying all troubled pasts = people being gay, etc. But, it does seem like a trend to me.

Just my five cents.Cool


Jun 2 2011, 7:27pm

Post #50 of 129 (499 views)
Plus if kids were taught to treat everybody with maturity and not pick on anyone [In reply to] Can't Post

The need to teach kids about every little difference would be eliminated.

Then kids could keep their innocence longer and no one would be picked on.

Very idealistic, I know, but so is thinking that teaching kids about every little difference will make them not harass each other.

It only really gives them more names to call their victims by.

(This post was edited by Gimli'sBox on Jun 2 2011, 7:27pm)

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