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“There is evidence that The Lord of the Rings was based on actual historical events”

a.s.
Valinor


Jul 25 2007, 10:38pm

Post #1 of 23 (756 views)
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“There is evidence that The Lord of the Rings was based on actual historical events” Can't Post

Have we discussed the book "Quest for Middle Earth" here?

Anyone read it? Any comments? I'm almost afraid to bring it up, but it's so...so...well, odd. Odd is a nice way of putting it!! It actually has three reviews at Amazon, and all three gave it five stars.



Q. I'd like to talk about your book, Quest for Middle-earth.

You are best known as a writer and contributor to UFO Magazines and other paranormal related publications. What prompted you to write the book about Tolkien?


I believe that mankind was seeded by an alien race. This explains the “missing link” in evolution. According to certain researchers our DNA was altered, genes spliced, etc. Homo Erectus thus because Home Sapien- literally overnight. God or what creatures of the time believed to be Gods may have caused this intervention. The Bible and the Book of Enoch agree that the Nephilim took human wives and created a new race of supermen. I believe these were the elves and Tolkien used this storyline in the Silmarillion.

These elves were the demigods of history and folklore and had names such as Hercules and Achilles.

I have always believed that mankind has reached high levels of civilization several times in our past, but natural disasters, such as Noah’s flood, caused them to decline.

I have traveled extensively in Mexico, Central America, England, Scotland, Ireland and West Africa. I have studied the Mayan civilization and Arthurian tales: visiting Tintagel, Glastonbury, Stonehenge etc.

As I was watching the first two movies it was as if pieces of a puzzle were falling into place, creating a history that I knew was true. Everyone has heard or read stories about dragons, giant eagles, elves, all seeing eyes and trolls. I decided to investigate Tolkien to see if he had knowledge of ancient history and I discovered that he did.

"an seileachan"

"The success of love is in the loving - it is not in the result of loving. Of course it is natural in love to want the best for the other person, but whether it turns out that way or not does not determine the value of what we have done."

~~Mother Theresa


Voorhas
Lorien


Jul 25 2007, 11:04pm

Post #2 of 23 (275 views)
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Hmmm [In reply to] Can't Post

Sounds like Chariots of the Gods crossed with Tom Shippey or something...I guess it's not too different from the essays asserting that H.P. Lovecraft's stories are based in fact, and that he was just "channeling" some pre-existing mythology. Testament to how real these fictional worlds are to their readers, maybe.

A Fortean reading of LOTR could still be entertaining...though this one seems a bit on the flaky side.

"They who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night." -- E.A. Poe

(This post was edited by Voorhas on Jul 25 2007, 11:08pm)


weaver
Half-elven

Jul 26 2007, 1:16am

Post #3 of 23 (241 views)
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I was thinking the same thing... [In reply to] Can't Post

Sounds a lot Chariots of the Gods stuff...if Tolkien had just described his elves wearing spacesuits, it would have fit better.

I've not read this book, but this isn't the first author to take Tolkien and make him fit their particular world view, or to use the popularity of Tolkien as a springboard to things they wanted to preach about.

Weaver



N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Jul 26 2007, 1:17am

Post #4 of 23 (276 views)
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One review is strangely missing. [In reply to] Can't Post

As noted here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Discuss The Children of Húrin in the Reading Room, June 11-October 14.


squire
Valinor


Jul 26 2007, 1:22am

Post #5 of 23 (272 views)
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TORn's visualweasel has blogged about it - it's quite a tempest in a teapot [In reply to] Can't Post

It looks like a right mighty crock to me, but others (like visualweasel) have spent more time dissecting the thing.

"Mostly harmless", I guess, because people tend to believe whatever reinforces their existing beliefs. I don't suppose I care to spend time debating with anyone who already believes in the kind of thinking this book promotes, whether about Tolkien or any other real or imagined mythology.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


a.s.
Valinor


Jul 26 2007, 1:53am

Post #6 of 23 (237 views)
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who's "Visualweasel" when he's at home? [In reply to] Can't Post

or does he prefer to remain un-crossmatched to Torn?

Cool

I'm not taking the book seriously, I hope you understand that! I'm just...amazed. I guess if I read my TolkienLibrary News more often, I'd have already known about the publication...but it seemed too good (er, in a manner of speaking) to pass unnoticed by Torn!

a.s.

"an seileachan"

"The success of love is in the loving - it is not in the result of loving. Of course it is natural in love to want the best for the other person, but whether it turns out that way or not does not determine the value of what we have done."

~~Mother Theresa


a.s.
Valinor


Jul 26 2007, 1:54am

Post #7 of 23 (207 views)
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ah. thanks. restores my faith in humanity. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"an seileachan"

"The success of love is in the loving - it is not in the result of loving. Of course it is natural in love to want the best for the other person, but whether it turns out that way or not does not determine the value of what we have done."

~~Mother Theresa


squire
Valinor


Jul 26 2007, 2:33am

Post #8 of 23 (254 views)
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Well, he's just this guy, you know [In reply to] Can't Post

He's the named author of his blog, Lingwe, that N.E. Brigand and I both linked you to. He's a amateur but respected Tolkien (and Inklings) scholar, with published papers and conference presentations to his credit. He's also a stalwart contributor to the JRRT Encyclopedia Reader's Diary, with the associated title of Lord High Reviewer of All The TORn Entries, since NEB and I can't review ourselves and our TORn colleagues. In the link to the "C" entries given here, you can read visualweasel's comments on "Caedmon", "Carolingians", "Chaucer as Philologist", "Childhood of Tolkien", and "Collecting".

I'll take this opportunity to note that visualweasel, as the most objective (i.e., only) outside critic we can muster, has remarked on the overall very high quality of the TORn entries in the Encyclopedia.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


a.s.
Valinor


Jul 26 2007, 2:40am

Post #9 of 23 (255 views)
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um, a.s. eats humble pie [In reply to] Can't Post

You know, I really can read, so I wonder sometimes why I can't READ. LOL. I thought his "blog name" was "visualweasel" and so his Torn name must be something else. (And I even WENT to the blog and READ the blog entry AND his profile! whew).

If this fact was any more obvious it would have killed me rather than just stunning me as it hit me over the head.

Sorry, visualw. and thanks for explaining that point I missed there, squire!!


off to bed, now. Maybe I'm sleep deprived. Yes, that's it.

a.s.

"an seileachan"

"The success of love is in the loving - it is not in the result of loving. Of course it is natural in love to want the best for the other person, but whether it turns out that way or not does not determine the value of what we have done."

~~Mother Theresa


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Jul 26 2007, 10:17am

Post #10 of 23 (203 views)
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Why not? :) [In reply to] Can't Post

I mean, why would Tolkien's world seem so familiar if it wasn't implanted in our makeup somehow? He felt like a conduit many times during his writing of The Lord of the Rings. Maybe LotR is OUR Red Book of Westmarch.

I'm going to say, yeah. Middle-earth is splintered off and co-existed with the history of earth. The aliens who are protecting the realms where they continue to exist just didn't do such a good job of blocking all of us from its presence. ;)

This appeals to my sense of order. Make it so.


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a.s.
Valinor


Jul 26 2007, 10:49am

Post #11 of 23 (201 views)
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gives "well, I'm back" a whole new interpretation! [In reply to] Can't Post


a.s.

"an seileachan"

"The success of love is in the loving - it is not in the result of loving. Of course it is natural in love to want the best for the other person, but whether it turns out that way or not does not determine the value of what we have done."

~~Mother Theresa


L. Ron Halfelven
Grey Havens


Jul 26 2007, 11:47am

Post #12 of 23 (202 views)
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The Elves were behind 9/11! Never trust an elf!/ [In reply to] Can't Post

 

And Rose drew him in, and set him on the harpsichord bench, and put little Wilhelm Friedemann upon his lap.

He began composing a fugue. 'Well, I'm Bach,' he said.


luinfalathiel
Lorien


Jul 26 2007, 12:09pm

Post #13 of 23 (219 views)
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What the ... !? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm tempted to read the book, as it might give me a few good laughs, but I fear it will also leave me with hypertension-inducing foaming-at-the-mouth frustration at not being able to sit down with the writer and slap him around a few times shouting "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING!?"

Come on ... the Elves were actually aliens!? Does it mention in the Bible and the Book of Enoch about how the Elves/Nephilim/aliens only had THREE pairings with humans (who were demonstrably already a seperate "species" as mentioned in the Silmarillion) that produced any offspring? Kinda hard to produce an entire species with only three individuals (Thoroughbred horses are not a seperate species of animal, despite having only three "progenitors" http://en.wikipedia.org/...Thoroughbred#Origins).

Rant, mumble, grumble, fume.

What's next? Harry Potter is some sort of allegory of ... what? Give me your suggestions, TORNsibs!

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Ainu Laire
Tol Eressea


Jul 26 2007, 1:16pm

Post #14 of 23 (193 views)
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WWII... err, HP spoilers [In reply to] Can't Post

HP SPOILERS. Just in case you read it all threaded out and whatnot.



Totally WWII. If you read the book7, Voldemort was obviously Hitler. Because, after all, every fantasy character has to be based off of someone decidedly evil in history. Or something. Frankly I think Voldemort would be insulted to be compared to any muggle, evil or not...

(I can't be the only person who immediately thought of WWII while reading book 7)...

Oh. Harry is Churchill. Dumbledore is Roosevelt because Roosevelt died, and he died, so it all fits somehow. Rommel... Rommel... Bellatrix? Uhh... wow, I cannot remember anyone or anything in history whatsoever. Summer vacation does that to the brain.

I'm done. That was a pretty bad allegory. I was going for dark humor but I think I slipped and fell to just plain bad. Almost as bad as the author's book, just slightly more insulting. Bedtime now.

(I'm not even touching the original post... I'll do that at a better hour of the day... night... morning).

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Aunt Dora Baggins
Half-elven


Jul 26 2007, 5:08pm

Post #15 of 23 (215 views)
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I only have one observation [In reply to] Can't Post

and that is something I noticed years ago when I had a colleague named VanderPloeg:

"VanderPloeg" can be spelled out to the tune of Mickey Mouse as in the old Mickey Mouse Club song:

M-I-C K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E

V-A-N D-E-R P-L-O-E-G

I'm sure that means something.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chance Meeting at Rivendell: a Tolkien Fanfic
and some other stuff I wrote...
leleni at hotmail dot com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Jul 26 2007, 8:49pm

Post #16 of 23 (198 views)
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I find it suspicious... [In reply to] Can't Post

that a regular contributor to a Tolkien discussion board once had a colleague who shared a last name with the author of a dubious book on Tolkien.

Suspicious, but inconclusive.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Discuss The Children of Húrin in the Reading Room, June 11-October 14.


weaver
Half-elven

Jul 26 2007, 10:13pm

Post #17 of 23 (181 views)
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Gandervolpe... [In reply to] Can't Post

If you rearrange the letters of the author's name, you get a cross between Gandalf, Voldemort, and the Pope.

If you ask me, I think that's suspicious but inconclusive too..

Weaver



a.s.
Valinor


Jul 26 2007, 11:17pm

Post #18 of 23 (182 views)
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suspicious+inconclusive=conspiracy theory [In reply to] Can't Post

in general.

So it MUST mean something.

Now that you've discovered the clue hidden from others who have been hoodwinked by the establishment, watch out for visits from the men in black...

And if any dogs talk to you on the street, you'll know you are onto something.

Sly

a.s.

"an seileachan"

"The success of love is in the loving - it is not in the result of loving. Of course it is natural in love to want the best for the other person, but whether it turns out that way or not does not determine the value of what we have done."

~~Mother Theresa


Wynnie
Rohan


Jul 27 2007, 6:38pm

Post #19 of 23 (159 views)
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He's only posted [In reply to] Can't Post

four times on TORn so it's not too surprising you didn't recognize the name.

That off-to-bed emoticon is absolutely adorable!




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The wind is blowing, and the white foam is flying.




a.s.
Valinor


Jul 27 2007, 10:01pm

Post #20 of 23 (161 views)
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isn't bedtime smiley cute? [In reply to] Can't Post

I love smilies. I liked them when they were just ASCII text, and I like them even more now that they're animated.

I'd prefer not to analyze that. Some things are just fun, right? Sometimes a banana is just a banana, and all that?



a.s.

"an seileachan"

"The success of love is in the loving - it is not in the result of loving. Of course it is natural in love to want the best for the other person, but whether it turns out that way or not does not determine the value of what we have done."

~~Mother Theresa


orcbane
Gondor


Jul 28 2007, 12:42pm

Post #21 of 23 (144 views)
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Orc Stress Disorder (OSD) [In reply to] Can't Post

I had not heard of this theory before. It reminds me of taking an idea & seeing how far you can run with it. It is an exercise in creativity maybe, but not history. Which pretty much describes much of Tolkien's work. The thing about Tolkien that gives the created world reality, is perhaps just the truth's and common dreams weaved in, in an particurly artful way.

As enamored as I am with Middle-Earth, I would love for it somehow to have been real events. But things being what they are, worrying about being eaten by orcs is just not a good idea for me right now.


Elven
Valinor


Jul 28 2007, 1:00pm

Post #22 of 23 (142 views)
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Thats not so far fetched ... [In reply to] Can't Post

seeing that he came from a country with a culture and tribe that see themselves as being sent to this planet from another by a vehicle like a disc of light or a ship.

The Zulu (anaZula) literally translated means 'People of the Sky' ... ' Sons Of Zulu"
Their word for the vehicle which transported them (through history) is known as 'karibah' -literal meaning "vehicle of light''.
The Bibles word for this 'vehicle of light' is merkavah. In Hebrew 'merkabah' is trnaslated as "Chariot Of World Of Formation".

...says Elven munching on a Pizza ...


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Adanedhel
Bree

Jul 28 2007, 7:46pm

Post #23 of 23 (397 views)
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There must have been more pairings of elves and men [In reply to] Can't Post

since the Prince of Dol Amroth was descended from Mithrellas, a silvan elf that married the human Imrazor. Maybe there were only 3 pairings of Noldorin elves with humans.



 
 

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