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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Heart Wrenching story i think more than the Trilogy.What about you.???(spoilers)
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thehobbitftw
Rivendell

Mar 22 2011, 8:20am

Post #1 of 37 (1985 views)
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Heart Wrenching story i think more than the Trilogy.What about you.???(spoilers) Can't Post

I read the Hobbit today and i felt reallly really bad for Thorin.The hobbit when you think about is more emotianal and heart wrenching than the lord of the rings in the way that this Dwarf/man who was deprived of everything his ancestors worked hard for lost it all and the moment he gains it back he loses his lifeI really think the dwarven past is dark and sad as they were driven out of their home and riches were taken from them.These dwarves mine and work hard only to have it taken.!.I really think it is really sad that he gains it back and other people try to take it form them.The climax is just too much for me.I fell really bad especially when he says something like.If more people valued good food and good natured health over wealth and gold they would be more happier in life.I also think tat this is Very evident in todays socety and is a great message to us all.;)


(This post was edited by thehobbitftw on Mar 22 2011, 8:26am)


thehobbitftw
Rivendell

Mar 22 2011, 11:15am

Post #2 of 37 (536 views)
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I Can;t belive no omne has replid yet.////! [In reply to] Can't Post

C mon what do you think LORd oF THe rings of the hobbit which one more sad and heart wrenching.simple question dudes,.;


thehobbitftw
Rivendell

Mar 22 2011, 11:30am

Post #3 of 37 (523 views)
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THE hobbit [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
C mon what do you think LORd oF THe rings or the hobbit which one more sad and heart wrenching.simple question dudes,.;



Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Mar 22 2011, 11:32am

Post #4 of 37 (548 views)
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You must have patience Padawan many have been resting. [In reply to] Can't Post

I think that Thorjn's fate will be shared by many today and it is a great tragedy to become obsessed with vengeance and overwhelmed with desire for wealth.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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thehobbitftw
Rivendell

Mar 22 2011, 11:38am

Post #5 of 37 (527 views)
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I Just wanted to share those heart wrenching moments that surpass the trilogy [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I think that Thorjn's fate will be shared by many today and it is a great tragedy to become obsessed with vengeance and overwhelmed with desire for wealth.



thehobbitftw
Rivendell

Mar 22 2011, 11:51am

Post #6 of 37 (497 views)
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I genrally think [In reply to] Can't Post

that compared to the fate of the world and that is a whole group of people coming together whereas.His ancestors who fought sp hard of a kingdom was so easily depriverd in a split second and this man was trying to gaint his back and he was solefully lost int he battle of five armies.this man even bought 12 other companiojns with him in order to get this task done i think compared to Frodo much more was at stake as he had a personal ravishing want for his kingdom restored and through his fortitude he gained what he once had back and then lost it so goddam easily due to thieves and robbers.this man/dwarf had to fight what was already his and i think that is so sad and it dpresses me to think he fell before Bilbo.!;)


Lindele
Gondor


Mar 22 2011, 2:16pm

Post #7 of 37 (474 views)
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I can't say I'm with you at all on that [In reply to] Can't Post

LOTR is one of the most emotional heart wrenching stories I have ever read. The Hobbit, emotionally, does not even come close to even being able to be thought about comparing


macfalk
Valinor


Mar 22 2011, 2:48pm

Post #8 of 37 (451 views)
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Disagreed, Lindele. [In reply to] Can't Post

I think The Hobbit is a lot more heart wrenching than LOTR, in every way.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Labrynian Rebel
The Shire


Mar 22 2011, 2:55pm

Post #9 of 37 (438 views)
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I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

Throin's death always makes me feel wretched while reading it, who dies in Lord of the Rings? Boromir? Meh, whatever. Gandalf? He gets better. Although Lord of the Rings was more epic, the Hobbit still has the best death scene (Gandalf vs Balrog would have won, but as I said, he gets better)


dormouse
Half-elven

Mar 22 2011, 3:05pm

Post #10 of 37 (429 views)
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Well..... [In reply to] Can't Post

Theoden dies in Lord of the Rings; I always found that moving. As also the death of Halbarad - in fact, one of the most tragic things in LotR, to my mind, is the elegy that follows the battle of Pelennor fields because it gives a sense of the scale of the loss and the individual losses - something that would have toned in perfectly with Tolkien's experience of the First World War.

Then don't forget Frodo's realisation at the end of the story that he has lost the Shire and can no longer remain in Middle Earth, and Sam's loss of Frodo - how heartbreaking is that?

But honestly, why do we have to set the books up in competition? It's not either or, they both have heartbreaking passages because Tolkien understood what another First World War writer called 'the hearbreak at the heart of things.'


macfalk
Valinor


Mar 22 2011, 3:06pm

Post #11 of 37 (449 views)
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Yeah, The Hobbit has a more personal touch: [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin's death is the most saddest section in any book I have ever read in my entire life.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Lindele
Gondor


Mar 22 2011, 3:23pm

Post #12 of 37 (439 views)
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I am getting the impression that no one here has [In reply to] Can't Post

read LOTR...

-Sam and Frodo's heart wrenching, emotional journey, seemingly only leading to death? The complete
deterioration and loss of innocence that the Hobbits go through...
-Gandalf dies...far superior to Thorin dying emotionally. Thorin dying was an obvious must for the plot
-Theoden dies
-Boromir dies
-and OMFG the parting of the fellowship at the end when the Hobbits break up forever? Are you all just de-sensitized?!?!?!?!

I could go on and on, and i'm not saying that The Hobbit isn't emotional or heart wrenching, but my mind is blown by this thread. appalled even.


thehobbitftw
Rivendell

Mar 22 2011, 3:29pm

Post #13 of 37 (420 views)
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okay i;m sorry you are right. [In reply to] Can't Post

i just think that it is underestimated that the hobbit is a light hearted childrens story.the dwarves have a dark past and i just meant that i felt for Thorin becasue he worked so hard to get tot he top and then he fell.IT is in a word TRAgic.I SHould have never compared it with rings though and i can be very insensitive sometimes.,please forgive.Cool THEY LOSt their Home and were trying to get it back.I JUst don;t see how a children can grasp that concept well enough.i would rate it m15 for sure.


(This post was edited by thehobbitftw on Mar 22 2011, 3:31pm)


painjoiker
Grey Havens

Mar 22 2011, 3:36pm

Post #14 of 37 (429 views)
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Thorins death is probably the most unemotional deathscene ever... [In reply to] Can't Post

Except from Fili and Kili's death scene maybe


flodwyns
Bree


Mar 22 2011, 3:39pm

Post #15 of 37 (435 views)
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Heart-rending [In reply to] Can't Post

Iím what you might call an old fart (seen on another thread LOL!) and have been reading Tolkien for 50-odd years now. I agree that Thorinís story is heart-rending which is why I am pleased that the role has been entrusted to a subtle, sensitive actor like Richard Armitage.

Iím not sure that one can really say which book is more heart-rending though. How can we measure this? What tugs at your heart-strings might not tug at mine and vice versa. I think though, that there are a few parallels with LOTR. For example, Aragorn, noble but dispossessed, fighting to regain his birthright lost by his fatherís folly. His motivation however is perhaps more altruistic than that of Thorin.

Another parallel is Boromir, heir to a noble dynasty destroyed by fear, suspicion and the influence of evil forces. Boromir, the heir, loses his heritage (actually), his way (actually and metaphorically) subsequently redeems himself and dies in a noble causeÖÖmost of which could equally be said of Thorin!

And yes, there are I agree lessons for everyone within the pages of Tolkien's books, but I don't see all that many people listening unfortunate


Lindele
Gondor


Mar 22 2011, 3:41pm

Post #16 of 37 (407 views)
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hahaha, [In reply to] Can't Post

well there you have it


thehobbitftw
Rivendell

Mar 22 2011, 3:44pm

Post #17 of 37 (395 views)
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Yes You are correct.lol [In reply to] Can't Post

however the hobbit is not at all a childrens story.how many children stories have a brutal battle and three people/dwarves protagonists killed and cannabilism. Also those riddles no toddler or infant could figure out.lol I REad those comassionate lines and how angry and how he felt btrayed by bilbo and you could really get a sense that he really cares about correcting the past and what was stolen from him.he seemed so sure about what he wanted and it reminded me of the natives and the indegenous who were deprived of there land and culture due to the westerers who took over and raped and pillaged their people if you get my meaning.That in a word is the mose heart-rending about this story.


(This post was edited by thehobbitftw on Mar 22 2011, 3:50pm)


macfalk
Valinor


Mar 22 2011, 3:49pm

Post #18 of 37 (378 views)
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Lindele [In reply to] Can't Post

I have read LOTR. 3 times. You asked me whether I have read LOTR, I might ask you the same question: have you read The Hobbit?

You call yourself "appalled" by our opinions of that some of us thinks other than you. That appalls me.

Your list of "proof" has changed nothing for me, and laughing "hahaha" isn't improving your chances either



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Lindele
Gondor


Mar 22 2011, 4:00pm

Post #19 of 37 (363 views)
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I have no problem [In reply to] Can't Post

with others having differing opinions. And I do think that everyone reacts differently to stories, and responds differently to emotions etc...nonetheless I am appalled.
And you are right, I shouldn't have laughed. But I just thought it was really funny, because I tend to agree a little. To me Thorin's death wasn't horribly emotional. I know it was for Bilbo, but I had a hard time relating with Bilbo in the moment...whereas in LOTR when Gandalf dies, or when Frodo leaves for Valinor, I found myself emotionally devistated along with the characters.
But hey, to each their own!


macfalk
Valinor


Mar 22 2011, 4:01pm

Post #20 of 37 (376 views)
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Gandalf didn't die // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Mar 22 2011, 4:09pm

Post #21 of 37 (378 views)
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Angst is not the way to go with these films... [In reply to] Can't Post

I disagree that TH is "heart-wrenching"...and hope these films don't have an overabundance of "angst" as PJ is wont to put in his movies in an attempt to make them seem "heavy, sophisticated and important", (see his Kong and Lovely Bones). LotR, both the books and the films, had its share of heart-breaking moments, but also had heart, humanity, humor, beauty, awe, wonder, joy, and hope, things which PJ forgot about in his subsequent works.

In any case, TH was a fairy tale that Tolkien told to his children while putting them to sleep. LotR was largely inspired by classical myth and epics, as well as Tolkien's own experience serving in the British infantry in World War I. TH is a largely charming, "lighter" fairy tale and adventure story; LotR is an apocalyptic war story about our heroes being ready to sacrifice everything to stop the world from coming to an end; then, after defeating a seemingly unstoppable enemy, Frodo/Tolkien returns home and finds that while he was off fighting to protect his green English countryside, it was destroyed anyway!

BTW, Thorin in TH is closer to Boromir...he's a tragic figure, but reaps what he sows. Frodo is a purely tragic figure who fails just before he can accomplish the greatest task in the world, then ends up "dying" as he can't bear continuing to live in Middle-earth after all he's been through. Now, which is more heart-breaking...?

I have to reiterate, I sincerely hope PJ disagrees with you!! Shocked

I would rather be watching Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit" and Ridley Scott's "Prometheus"...it's going to be a long few years.

(This post was edited by Captain Salt on Mar 22 2011, 4:14pm)


Lindele
Gondor


Mar 22 2011, 4:17pm

Post #22 of 37 (355 views)
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come on, give me a break [In reply to] Can't Post

for a first time reader/watcher, he died. obviously he came back, but it was still emotional when he died.
but i'm sure we can find reasons to argue all day,
are we not all Tolkien fans? we are on here because we appreciate his work and can relate to each other's enthusiasm.


macfalk
Valinor


Mar 22 2011, 4:21pm

Post #23 of 37 (348 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

TH started off as a children's story but it certainly transformed to something much more special than "just a children's story", when he began to dig deeper and revisit the book.

And why wouldn't TH be heart-wrenching?

We have an important character who's sole thoughts through many decades has been to avenge his ancestors and reclaim what is rightfully his. When he finally reaches this after many dangers and toils, complications arises again, he is betrayed and he loses control. He then dies slowly in agony knowing that not only is he about to die, he has also lost everything. His little confort is to have a last few farewell conversation with Bilbo.

If that alone is not heart-wrenching, then I do not know what is.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.

(This post was edited by macfalk on Mar 22 2011, 4:22pm)


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Mar 22 2011, 5:05pm

Post #24 of 37 (336 views)
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"reaps what he sows" [In reply to] Can't Post

I suppose the entire thread should carry a SPOILER tag.

Anyway yes it is sad that Thorin dies but as you indicate it was no less than he deserved after acting like a right b'tard. The upside of course (as thehobbitftw notes but seems to miss the signifigance of) is that he sees the folly of his greed before he perishes. I take comfort that he saw the error of his ways before breathing his last. Dying an honourable person is all the treasure one could ask for.


Lindele
Gondor


Mar 22 2011, 5:27pm

Post #25 of 37 (307 views)
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well said [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree, it is a very noble and justified death

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